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Old 17 Dec 2010, 10:21 (Ref:2805529)   #31
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Having given this a bit of thought, the idea of an historic 24hrs is interesting. One of the problems I see with "bringing it up to date" as it were, is the crossover with Britcar. That said the sort of car I would select for this would be a Beemer, Porsche 944/911, A Viper GT/RS or similar. Just snooping through racecarsdirect and there are a few suitable rides, all around 35-45k. Then once you buy it you'll need the same amount again to strip it, re build it and prepare it.

A budget racer or clubman isn't going to last five minutes unless the preparation is top notch. 24hrs is a massive step change from 6hrs. For many cars and drivers, it's three seasons of racing! As a minimum it's a new engine, gearbox and diff. Complete strip and re build of the suspension. New electronic ignition units, new fuel system etc. I've just spent 15-30k in that sentence depending on the car.

The old Willhire was effectively a run what you brung, road car event. Even then many entrants spent a shedload of time on the cars before they hit the track. These days with fuel system requirements and the necessarily expensive fuel cells to go with, most "clubmen" would blanch at the idea.

Not trying to discourage anyone but from experience this is a major leap.
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Old 17 Dec 2010, 10:26 (Ref:2805530)   #32
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Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
Having given this a bit of thought, the idea of an historic 24hrs is interesting. One of the problems I see with "bringing it up to date" as it were, is the crossover with Britcar. That said the sort of car I would select for this would be a Beemer, Porsche 944/911, A Viper GT/RS or similar. Just snooping through racecarsdirect and there are a few suitable rides, all around 35-45k. Then once you buy it you'll need the same amount again to strip it, re build it and prepare it.

A budget racer or clubman isn't going to last five minutes unless the preparation is top notch. 24hrs is a massive step change from 6hrs. For many cars and drivers, it's three seasons of racing! As a minimum it's a new engine, gearbox and diff. Complete strip and re build of the suspension. New electronic ignition units, new fuel system etc. I've just spent 15-30k in that sentence depending on the car.

The old Willhire was effectively a run what you brung, road car event. Even then many entrants spent a shedload of time on the cars before they hit the track. These days with fuel system requirements and the necessarily expensive fuel cells to go with, most "clubmen" would blanch at the idea.

Not trying to discourage anyone but from experience this is a major leap.

arrrh the voice of reason and dont dare think you are discouraging anyone Peter....you are stating facts not fiction and the whole idea of this thread is the same as the last one...its to gauge opinion...and to see if its viable so thank you!

PS...I will put you down for two entries???????? lol ;-)
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Old 17 Dec 2010, 10:27 (Ref:2805531)   #33
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Agreed Simon but the Birkett isn't 24 hours !!!

Claire has quite rightly pointed out that 'recreating' the Willhire doessn't mean a 'time warp retro' version. There's little doubt that a well prepared period car, driven with mechanical sympathy could last 24 hours but I think this race would be aligned to more contemporary cars (not to be quoted but BMW's, Scoobys, Evo's, Murano's, Golf VR's and perhaps MGTF's, MX5's etc etc)

Perhaps a 2 tier approach with period cars on a relay basis in one class and contemporary cars racing lights to flag in another class could be an idea?

We need to fill the grid to make it viable - you tell us what works for you.
Almost makes me want to get my race licence back! Count me in John
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Old 17 Dec 2010, 10:31 (Ref:2805533)   #34
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Almost makes me want to get my race licence back! Count me in John
only Almost???? cant count you in then?
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Old 17 Dec 2010, 10:33 (Ref:2805534)   #35
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John,

I'm currently planning my exit strategy from here, which means I may not be working in April!

But, if I could put a team together (sharing costs) and the classes and age range were suitable I'd seriously consider it. Have to sell the car afterwards though so we'd need to win.
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Old 17 Dec 2010, 10:37 (Ref:2805536)   #36
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Thank you - so much support in 48 hours is amazing.......but so there was for the first 360. If this is to happen, we all need to keep the momentum going for the next 12 months. 360MRC really want to do this but we need commitment from our customers to make it happen.
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Old 17 Dec 2010, 10:42 (Ref:2805537)   #37
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simon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Johngee if I a being honest I think Mallett is correct the correlation to Britcar is too high and there is probably no chance of filling a grid with hictorics so I fear it is a pipedream unless you get a good sponsor....
However I was similarly disparaging about your 6 hour and a year later have an entry...
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Old 17 Dec 2010, 10:43 (Ref:2805538)   #38
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I think the reason why the 6 hours was originally suggested was because it was thought that that was an acceptable & doable compromise between: endurance, costs, reliability/ preparation requirements of older cars, numbers of available and interested competitors etc. I really think that 6 hours is a reasonable limit for club level competitors. I have worked the pit wall for the Britcar 24 hour race & have seen the effort that went in to running a (well prepared but not highly tuned) Honda Civic and it was vast. We are talking a level of comitment that is a massive step up from the 6 hours & I really believe will need a Britcar level of commitment & budget.
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Old 17 Dec 2010, 10:46 (Ref:2805541)   #39
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Weeeell, the chance to race a Viper GT/RS is sorely tempting. Oh noooooooooo!
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Old 17 Dec 2010, 10:51 (Ref:2805543)   #40
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Johngee if I a being honest I think Mallett is correct the correlation to Britcar is too high and there is probably no chance of filling a grid with hictorics so I fear it is a pipedream unless you get a good sponsor....
However I was similarly disparaging about your 6 hour and a year later have an entry...
On the face of it I agree Simon. However, where we disagree is that we see this as a combination of both historic and contemporary saloons/GT/Sportscars but at a clubman level and not really encrouching on Britcar territory.
When Columbus set sail he didn't know where he was going - just that there was 'something' out there worth going for!
Note your last sentance and we've put you down for an entry already.
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Old 17 Dec 2010, 10:53 (Ref:2805544)   #41
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There was a genuine ex Oreca Viper at the Britcar 24 hours in (I think) 2008, chassis 3. Lovely old thing, I even sat in it. A bit long in the tooth to be competitive for the Britcar, maybe even then. Great to see stuff like that out but I fear costs would be prohibitive. I do wonder whether we have our feet on the ground here. What is the target market; is it still grass roots?

Edit: OK, John, you've just answered that!
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Old 17 Dec 2010, 11:00 (Ref:2805545)   #42
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What is the target market; is it still grass roots?
To differentiate from Britcar, yet still have a combination of contempory & historic cars, the contempory cars will really have to be in a very limited state of prep. I think I'm right in saying that the original Willhire was for "production cars" & that really meant production - basically a bolt in cage & not much else; even the interior trim stayed in.

Maybe the "historics" (say Pre 1990) could be drawn from the existing race car community but anything newer than that should be a production car, as above. Maybe even driven to the event!!!!!!!! But not necssarily "away from" the event!!!!

What would be the refuelling regs? Same as the "6", or Britcar type dry breaks - that's a lot of expense right there.

Last edited by andy97; 17 Dec 2010 at 11:22.
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Old 17 Dec 2010, 11:00 (Ref:2805546)   #43
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Johngee if I a being honest I think Mallett is correct the correlation to Britcar is too high and there is probably no chance of filling a grid with hictorics so I fear it is a pipedream unless you get a good sponsor....
However I was similarly disparaging about your 6 hour and a year later have an entry...

That has made me smile Simon and not in a nasty way at all.

we have to be realistic and as Andy and Peter have said, its a massive leap, it may well be too much or it may well be that the clubbie would not be able to afford it
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Old 17 Dec 2010, 11:01 (Ref:2805547)   #44
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only Almost???? cant count you in then?
T'is OK Claire, I'll drag him along to deal with feeding the marshals

The technical stuff isn't really my thing, but it does sound to me like there might be some mileage (sorry!) in some sort of relay to give the older vehicles (and perhaps the older drivers ) a bit more of a chance? I know that makes it more of a Birkett than a Willhire but it perhaps reflects the longevity of the cars?

Can you run a 24 hours that includes both relay and a non relay classes or categories?

The Lotus 1000k worked well as a relay, I know it takes away the challenge of actually "doing" 24 hours but for some vehicles that it clearly not going to be achievable and getting a team to the end does bring some level of satisfaction.
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Old 17 Dec 2010, 11:01 (Ref:2805548)   #45
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Just to elaborate, we're thinking more of the sort of cars that did the 24hr on the Nurburgring - more super road cars than out and out racers. I'm rambling but the Motor sponsored races at Brands Hatch in the 60's. Group 1? ...at least for the contempory cars.

Just read Andy's post and he's 'on the money'
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