Non of you know what your talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nippy]

Ratbag. One way of learning the monorisms of a kart is to go to an arive and drive rental. They are admitadly not the fastest things but you will learn a bit. Every Little helps hey. Gud luk.

[tassuperkart]

Good thought Nippy!
I had forgotten that QLD superkart club has a 125ccclub kart for prospective members to go for a fang in!!

I dont think that any of the other states have one like this.

That wopuld be the perfect thing Ratty.
There is a blurb about it on the Qld website:
http://www.qldsuperkart.org/u-dare.htm

Unlkess you have your own already!

L8tr dudes
E

[Amonfan]

TAS, the Victorians used to have an 80cc u could arrive and drive, not sure if they still do, its been a few years since i last hit the track. Always a bit of a worry putting new dudes in gearbox karts, always causes a few mind blowing moments when they go down a few many gears and you hear your poor little engine screaming in pain, or they drive it soo slow they load the darn thing up, lol.

[tassuperkart]

hehehehe absolutely dude.
I know any time I put anybody in my old 125 i felt exactly that!

I would not put anyone in the F/E tho.

If they want to go that fast that much they can buy their own!! LOL

I remember the Vics with that kart but I have not heard about it for a while.
I wonder if they still do?
I havent read about it on their new site???
L8tr
E

[Ratbag]

Hi guys

Yea they have a 125 at Qld that you can test. They say its $100 for 10laps, wich i thought was worth it for a test. I then applied and they then said it would be $205 lol. When i Politly pointed out my disapointment and stated that the site gives the distinct impresion that the fee is $100 i didnt get a reply.. The kart was also out of action anyhow so ill just have to wait..

I am Quietly confident that i will be able to handle a 125 no dramas, If i buy one and its gutless and i want a 250 i am gona come back and blame you guys.hahahah.

Regards
Ratbag

[tassuperkart]

Bwaaaahahahahahahahhaa
$205 and they advertise 100.........fornicating ripoff!

Dude, I still have my RS125 powered kart.
Come down to tassie and Ill let you set your hair on fire all you like K.

L8tr dude
E

[Ratbag]

Your making me all wet lol
Am i allowed to say that? hahahahah

May need to ask my boss for a small holiday lol

Ratbag

[tassuperkart]

Bwaaahahahaha
Making you wet eh?!!!!!!!!!
U fewl!
L8tr dude
E

[Amonfan]

Ratbag, dont take 125s too lightly. There is an old wise Superkart tale among us veterans, "250s are for guys who cant drive 80s" lol. I have snapped at the heals of many 250's in a sprint kart chassied 80cc mounted kart at tracks like Winton and Wakefeild Park. A 125cc is very quick, at places like Winton if your doing times only 3 secs off a Supercar. Personally id be looking at an 80cc and learn to drive the wheels off that 1st, one you can beat the likes of Jammo and co, maybe then look at 125cc, lol.

Tassie mate, i think i remember you from Baskerville 97 Aus Titles Round 1, i wasnt racing, but my brother was, and i was actually scrutineering. Dave?? Harrison had a rollover on the main straight in the 250's and i jumped the fence to help him out (got a big whack over the knuckles for it too,lol). You were running a 125cc with a Pollard type nose correct????

[tassuperkart]

yep, 'tis me dude.
Either I made quite a spectacle of myself or you have an iron clad memory!

You would have been scrutineering with Keiran Aird.

Yeah that was an old crapper Avanti clubman twin chassis clobbered up from begged and borrowed bits that was as heavy as hell and totally rigid and was impossible to drive fast on a long circuit LOL!

I still have that Pollard nosecone tho.

I cant recall who you are tho dude, help me out here.

I remember Glenn????????errrmmm,,,name escapes me now, helping Keiran back then.

Dale Harrison repaired that Zip. It actually wasnt that badly damaged, just looked ordinary thats all.
I bought that chassis off him and fitted an RS250 (92) to it.
The kart now lives in Vic now.
A dude from down on the peninsula has bought it, Mike Webster, he has joined the Vics club and will be bringing it out very soon.
It looks rather good in its new Candy Apple Red livery!

Race an 80 first up???????hawhawhaw!Make sure you have a well paying job tho!!
Bloody 80cc have caused as many dudes to give up on superkarts as those ******* 100 Yamahas snotboxes or the grandaddy money pit of them all......IC/E.
Lookee at how much loot those 80 punters unload into their karts to make 'em go....bwaaahahahahahahahah, a dude could run a fast F/E for years on an yearly fast 80cc yearly budget!!!!

Hehehehe sure cant deny the skill required to get them to go fast tho!!
I admire the dedication of the 80 brigade but I personally feel thay are a waste of track time, only IMO tho!
Them, IC/E and Yamahas---ring ding ding ding BANG!
(KER-CHING)$$$$$!!!
Engine builders love 'em!
Always a wise strategy to have plenty of spare barrels and pistons on racedays for those things!...............Let the flaming begin!!!!!

Lemme know about yourself anyway M8

L8tr
E

[Amonfan]

My mate was Aussie Champion twice in 80cc, and believe me, he did it on a very tight budget. I scrutineered with Gary Hart, my name being Curt Bond. We didnt plan to scruitnieer but the tassie guys were in strife and as gary and i had been doing it for years, we were brought in. My 80 was run on a shoestring, inyet we ran top 5 most the time at the state races. I know some guys spent $10,000 in a year in 80s and i was spending like $500, lol and beating them, thats the fun part. We used to do 49s at Oran Park sth in the old Atomikart, with cable brake, lol, so it was a pretty quick old bus, all for the bargain price of about $2000.

[tassuperkart]

Ahh yeah. Your right, there always the dudes that get the most out of the very least but oin the other hand, there are so many guys that unload so much freight at 80's it absurd.
So many guys see other faster guys dissappear into the sunset and end up unloading so much freight in a vain attempt to catch up that they just give up and go away.
This was also the case in F/E when all there was to use was a bloody rotax 256 handgrenades or those hideous old parallel twin RD based TZ yamahas...mmmmmmmm deluxe engineering there! My didnt they do a lot for the sport?!!!!!

Then along came Honda with their bulletproof RS engines and Yamaha with the TZ's and the 125 and F/E class is reborn.
I would pretty much never advise anybody to race an 80. Not because of the skill required to get the best out of them but for most of us, the amount of loot unloaded into them to firstly, make them go and secondly, to keep them going.
Meanwhile, Honda reccommend 500Klm on a single piston the costs 90 bucks.
If 80's could be made box stock and stock appearing with NO engine mods allowed, then the class would go places as a viable alternative but while ever they are an unlimited class, just like 250 IC/E, they tend to be a bottomless pit of money and effort to keep them competitive and running at the pointy end of the field!
Apart from a few selected dudes that can actually make them go fast and often make up for lack of machinery with unadulterated and raw talent!
$ 2500 AUD gets a mighty competitive RS or TZ 125
2 and a half grand gets you bugger all in an 80!

IMHO, superkarting could afford to loose 80's, 100NGB and IC/E comfortably.
A simple structure of 125 NGB 125 GB and 250 GB.

I would always support the return of 250 single as an entry level 250 if they are heavily controlled and run stock appearing and bog stock and NO mods with a rev limiter set at 8000RPM to help keep them, alive longer than 3 laps!!!
Bwaaahahahahahahaha!

L8tr dude
E

[BoatOwner]

Originally posted by tassuperkart

125 on longtrack is simply awesome with top speeds approaching 190Kph for better aerodynamically set up karts.

top speeds are boring. A 125 on a kart track should feel a lot faster than on a road course. You're just a wimp for not liking shifters on a short track... pain my ass, get fit.

Of course i'd like to try a shifter on a road course, but where?

[tassuperkart]

Dude
I'll give you the benifit of the doubt here and save you a spray for later, I will presume you are attempting to be funny right?

How can you possibly say high speeds are "booring" when you obviously have NEVER gone that quick in a kart........Hmmmmm?

I actually have the benefit of running my RS125 shifter on both short and long tracks and I can say with authority that the short track does NOT feel any faster.

Actually, it feels a whole lot slower on a short track.

Why I hear you ask?

Because you are going a whole lot slower everywhere, Pretty simple isnt it dude?
E

[BoatOwner]

i just don't find high speeds that interesting. I have done well over 200kph in an open wheeler and on a bike. Going fast in a straight line is boring. I would love to try some kart races on long tracks, i would enjoy it heaps. I can't imagine long tracks being nearly as physically challenging though.

Driving at the limit through corners is where its at. For me its just as enjoyable in a kart/bike/car regardless of track.

[tassuperkart]

Dude i dont think you are listening to me.
Long circuit racing is not about just going fast in a straight line...where do you get that notion from?

There are corners on these circuits but you just go faster around them due to bigger turn radiuses. The G-forces generated are exactly the same. What happens is when you stuff it up things happen a whole lot faster than on a slow sprint track and it tewnds to hurt a lot more.

There is no comparison between a bike nor a suspended open wheeler.
I have both and the similarity ends with the round black rubber things holding the wheel rims off the track.

Sprintkart tracks are no more or less demanding other than on the frequency of shifting gears due to the low gearing used on short tracks.

You seem to have in your head that long-circuits are just like indy-car ovals with a couple of lazy bends connected with some long straights that give you enough time to think and worry about having your engine go bang!

Nothing could really be further from the truth. the high relative speed is just one aspect out of dozens that are totally different than sprint track banging.

You really need to experience a long circuit in a fast kart befor you pass judgement that high speed is just plain booring or attemp to compare going fast on a big bike or a car, albeit an open wheeler.

You dont say where you are from but i suspect the USA right?

There are a legion of clubs there that run shifters on long and short circuits and i would be mighty surprised if you are not totally blown away with a run in a 125 shifter around a decent track. I suggest yopu make some calls and arrange an arrive and drive session.

Many clubs make available karts to beginners to have a go at and not many of them go away dissappointed, even in something like a ****y 32 Hp 125.

You might be very surprised how slow you go.
L8tr
E

[BoatOwner]

Originally posted by tassuperkart
Dude i dont think you are listening to me.
Long circuit racing is not about just going fast in a straight line...where do you get that notion from?

from your "reaching speeds of 190kph."

I live in Malaysia.

I haven't been saying that long track racing would be any less exciting than short track racing. In long track racing though its more about the engine than the driver(on who wins). I said that i enjoy it as much regardless of track car/kart. But i wouldn't enjoy karts on long tracks because of the higher top speeds, I'd enjoy it for all the same reasons i enjoy karts at kart tracks and cars on large tracks.

[tassuperkart]

Dude

In long track racing though its more about the engine than the driver(on who wins).

At everyday competitor level, that is a crock of speculative shyte.

Untill you actually get you backside into a kart, on a long circuit, you should not run off at the mouth.

You are purely speculating based on zero or limited at best, experience of longcircuit kart racing.

Cant help with any superkarting in malaysia tho.

However, you are entitled to your opinion.

Cya
E

[BoatOwner]

Originally posted by tassuperkart
At everyday competitor level, that is a crock of speculative shyte.

You need more engine on a long track simply because you are going faster, and there is more drag. The engine is relatively more important on long tracks than it is on short tracks. No shyte.

A powerful engine is more important at Monza than it is at Monaco.

[tassuperkart]

Whatever dude
Knock yourself out with all your longcircuit experience.

[BoatOwner]

I never said that i had any long track experience. I just said that i thought it would feel slower, because the tracks are larger, and that long track racing places relatively more emphasis on the engine(with your vast experience, dont you agree?). Of course with long track racing you have to be more precise through the fast corners because its more difficult to make up for lost speed at high speeds than it is when going slow.

Mika Salo said that karting(on short tracks) is the closest thing to f1 because the corners come at you as fast as they do in F1. F3, Nippon he said feel much slower because you are on big tracks, only when you get to f1 does it feel faster. I agree with him that low-level open wheelers feel heaps slower than karts.

You got awfully defensive about long track racing when i said that top speeds dont impress me(this is regardless of what i'm racing). I have nothing against long track karting, i think you misunderstood me and thought that just because i don't care about top speeds i despise long track karting or something.

[yelodwg]

Originally posted by BoatOwner
top speeds are boring. A 125 on a kart track should feel a lot faster than on a road course. You're just a wimp for not liking shifters on a short track... pain my ass, get fit.

Of course i'd like to try a shifter on a road course, but where?

Boatowner, I'm going to join in here and help my downunder friend tassuperkart. I can understand what you mean by "top speeds are boring" if you mean going in a straight line forever. However, unless you are on a dragstrip, luckily there is a turn after every straight It makes NO difference whether you are on a short or long course, every turn is a challenge, it's just that the turns on the long course are wider and alot of them are wayyyy faster than on a short course. I have raced my 100cc kart on both short and long courses, therefore I have the perspective of both. Both are fun and challenging in their own way...I just happen to prefer long course.

I just completed my SCCA school in a Formula Vee. Now, as with tassuperkart, I can compare long course in a kart and a Formula car.

The point is, and this is my opinion from having done both, approaching a turn on a long course doing 100mph+ adds much more of pucker factor versus 60-70mph on a short course. I'm not saying one is any more fun than the other, but in NO WAY is it boring at the end of a long course straight.

And to me a road course feels much faster and IS MUCH FASTER.

In regards to "You're just a wimp for not liking shifters on a short track": I could call a sprint shifter dude a wimp for not wanting to take his kart on a long course. But I wouldn't use the term "wimp", I would say there are some people that just prefer different types of racing. No big deal, different strokes for different folks. Really, though, I do think you were just funnin'

If I may say, you sound like you would be a great candidate to try a kart on a long course. It can be quite intimidating because of the higher speeds, but what a rush!!!! I don't know where you'd try a long track kart, but I might suggest contacting a road course kart club if you can find one and ask how you can try it out.

Do you have a kart? If so, it will be quite easy to get onto the long course. At least it is here in the USA!

From another of your posts, you said: "I can't imagine long tracks being nearly as physically challenging though." Both are physically challenging. Have you ever run a 100 meter race and a 10 K? They are both very physically challenging, but in different ways. Same with short and long course. On a long course you get longer straights and a chance (at times, if you are not wheel to wheel at the moment) to take a breather. I got more tired on the sprint tracks in 10 minutes than during a 30 minute long track race. But the long course is still VERY physically challenging.

"Driving at the limit through corners is where its at" Precisely, spot on, you are RIGHT But this is true with BOTH short and long courses. But even more so on the long course, as if you miss your line and spin off the track, it takes MUCH longer to stop than when you do the same thing on a sprint track. It has to, the speeds are much higher.

"In long track racing though its more about the engine than the driver" NOPE! I raced this past weekend against a driver who had a better/faster engine. He would just pull away from me on the straight. So how did I beat him at his game. I got a better run on him coming out of the turn and drafted him down the straight. So he had a better engine, good, I'll use his power! Now if a less experienced driver has an engine that is wayyyyy faster than the better driver's, he will most likely beat the better driver. But with similar engines, it's the better driver who will win out.

It sounds like you have drag raced, but not done any actual kart racing??

Tom Stephens
www.kartfinder.com
www.tvracer.com

[BoatOwner]

I'm saying exactly what you're saying. i just said that top speeds dont impress. Many people go around saying oh top speed is at 200kph, or 130 or 110, and i hate it when people ask "whats the top speed?." I dont know and i dont care. Thats all i was saying. I wasn't dissing long track racing in any way. Thats what i was saying, "the corners are where its at" regardless of what you are driving or where.

Even racers place way too much emphasis on the trap speeds at the end of a straight. Its much more important how fast you get to the trap than how fast you are going when you are there.

As for the "wimp" it was just a friendly dig at tas 'cause he said that short track shifter racing is a pain, literally.

Yeah i have a couple karts in our team that i use(Rotax Max, Parilla Leopard, Vortex 100cc Reed Water Cooled on 100cc chassis') but no long track to really run them on. The only track nearby is Sepang, and i'd imagine thats just far too big a track for any of these engines(two 1km straights). And i'd probably need to fit front brakes before going on a long track(?). We might be doing a couple of races in the US this year(if we ditch a race in japan) so if i get the chance i'll go try a long track if there is one near our sprint race.

and as for engine... i said its more about the engine than the driver relative to sprint kart racing. A good engine will give you more of an advantage on a long track than the same engine advantage on a short track simply because a long track asks a lot more from the engine. At least i think so but then i've never driven a kart on a long track so i guess i'm in no position to say anything, i'm going by what i've heard and what i've read.

[yelodwg]

BoatOwner, I was on the track this weekend with a lot of different classes of Formula cars and I found it quite interesting how some would blow my doors off down the straight, only to hold me up in the corners.

A few people turn their nose up at the fact I was using my 100cc on the long course, they would say, make sure you bring a book - you know, taking so long to get down the straight, I'd have time to read And it did take a long time, but since most of the course is turns, I'd have just as much fun in the corners as the faster guys. So I agree with you.

If you do get to come to the US and it happens to be in January, a fantastic fun fun fun race is put on at the California Speedway, Fontana, California. They use the front straight of the oval and then dive down into an infield course.

I suggest to any karter to at least TRY a long course, even if only once, just to see the difference. I describe the difference as "sprint racing magnified". E, does that description make any sense?

I still stand by my statement that the driver is much more of a factor than the engine, UNLESS the engine is wayyyy more powerful.

Tom

[BoatOwner]

Originally posted by yelodwg

I still stand by my statement that the driver is much more of a factor than the engine, UNLESS the engine is wayyyy more powerful.

and i think that as well. I was just saying its relatively more important to have a strong engine in long track racing than it is on a sprint track.