Italian F3 Series 2009 Discussion

[F3 Fan]

Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole

Anyway, to explain the lap time difference the last factor are the drivers, I believe in the top both series are equal and as good as any (yes, even BF3 included).

I don't get it: if the explanation for the lap difference are the drivers and that all top drivers are pretty much equal how do you explain such a big gap? and if the cars are not really developed either (if it's just an excuse of most teams) then what makes the F3 Italia cars more than 2 sec faster ?

Everyone has his own opinion of course but I thought there was quite a contradiction there...

The range is as big as you mention because there are no testing ban/rules so you may do a Zampieri (30, maybe more test days) or you may do a Zipoli (no pre season and limited in testing while jumping around teams).

This is unfortunately true but at the same time it happens in most Championships... Even in Gp2 where people already spend millions they go and do WS races on top to learn tracks...(Portimao) and everybody talks about limited budgets in F2 but even there drivers were all over the place testing and racing to make the difference...

[F3 Fan]

Alex Fontana signs for Corbetta http://www.f3italia.it/index.asp?pos=0&lingua=ing

Alberto Cerqui will race with new entry Ombra.

[F3 Fan]

Test at Misano earlier this week.
While waiting for the official announcement of the unique provider for seasons 2010-2011, some teams tested Kumho tyres, while others the very new Michelin or the tyres used in the just concluded season.

It seems that Lucidi and RC used the new Michelin Tyres and Prema were among those to use Kumhos.

Non-official lap times follow:

1 - S. Richelmi - Lucidi Motors - 1'30"92
2 - S. Buttarelli - Prema Powerteam - 1'31"66
3 - C. Ramos - BVM-Target - 1'32"20
4 - A. Roda - RC Motorsport - 1'32"26
5 - F. Glorioso - Gloria Pro Team - 1'32"30
6 - K. Giovesi - BVM-Target - 1'32"40
7 - G. Venturini - Prema Powerteam - 1'32"61
8 - L. Osmieri - Team Ghinzani - 1'32"61
9 - A. Fontana - Corbetta Competiz. - 1'32"83
10 - A. Silvestri - Corbetta Competiz. - 1'33"00
11 - M. Davenia - BVM-Target - 1'34"64
12 - L. Defendi - Team Ghinzani - 1'34"77

[Go_For_Pole]

Originally Posted by F3 Fan

I don't get it: if the explanation for the lap difference are the drivers and that all top drivers are pretty much equal how do you explain such a big gap? and if the cars are not really developed either (if it's just an excuse of most teams) then what makes the F3 Italia cars more than 2 sec faster? Everyone has his own opinion of course but I thought there was quite a contradiction there...

Sorry, I somehow missed your post. Yes, sure it's just an opinion and based on what can one see from the outside (which more often than not is only half the story). Anyway, I really think there is not much between the drivers so it comes down to other factors like development, tyres and circuit knowledge of teams (I think Spanish teams did not test at Imola during the winter). About development: I can not reasonably suggest that Alan did not do development, in fact they were the "works" team for Mygale. Also for sure Prema uses the same spec as in F3ES, they have no reason to do otherwise and since they are very competitive in ES the cars should be quite well developed. Those teams have every right to ask for a high budget. Still they were matched or beaten by experienced in the series teams like Lucidi and BVM which means that maybe spec is not as important performance factor as making Michelins work in high temperatures. Also those teams can ask to be paid for their knowledge. The irony is that there are other teams requesting silly budgets that do no development and have no particular knowledge advantage.

Originally Posted by F3 Fan

This is unfortunately true but at the same time it happens in most Championships... Even in Gp2 where people already spend millions they go and do WS races on top to learn tracks...(Portimao) and everybody talks about limited budgets in F2 but even there drivers were all over the place testing and racing to make the difference...

Sure, you can not stop people spending money if they want to but you can reduce the advantage they get from it. If CSAI only allowed collective testing after Jan 1st like most series, people could still go to Spain to test if they wished but at least they wouldn't get miles in the championship's circuits.

[Go_For_Pole]

Originally Posted by F3 Fan

Alex Fontana signs for Corbetta, Alberto Cerqui will race with new entry Ombra.

Funny how Corbetta that had a horrible season and Ombra that did not race at all were the first to name drivers. Alex is half Greek so I will root for him

[F3 Fan]

Sure, you can not stop people spending money if they want to but you can reduce the advantage they get from it. If CSAI only allowed collective testing after Jan 1st like most series, people could still go to Spain to test if they wished but at least they wouldn't get miles in the championship's circuits.

I totally agree about that point and I really hope all federations might find a reasonable solution to avoid silly costs however I still don't think collective tests in F3 is the best solution. (If I think about most F3 ES collective tests sometimes it's just ridiculous when you see HBR cars doing some performances they usually never do during race weekends just to convince drivers about competitiveness...).

[F3 Fan]

Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole

Funny how Corbetta that had a horrible season and Ombra that did not race at all were the first to name drivers. Alex is half Greek so I will root for him

It is indeed quite strange... we would expect BVM, Prema or Lucidi to sign drivers first and then the others....

What about that other Greek driver racing this year? what happened to him?

[Go_For_Pole]

Originally Posted by F3 Fan

If I think about most F3 ES collective tests sometimes it's just ridiculous when you see HBR cars doing some performances they usually never do during race weekends just to convince drivers about competitiveness...

If that annoys you avoid Italian F3 at all costs To be honest after a while I was finding the last five minutes of the tests very amusing (and totally worthless).

About Stefanos Kamitsakis: he quit the series mid season after a couple of races that the car he was given by the team was in a sorry state. A bad end after the victory in Adria but such is life. Next year if he finds a budget he might do Euro F3 Open, if not it will probably be sportscars.

[F3 Fan]

According to Italiaracing (http://www.italiaracing.net/notizia.asp?id=25601&cat=9) JD should be stopping F.Master and entering Italian F3 (with Mygale?).

After Ombra, TP Formula (with Europa Corse or alone?) JD will become the 3rd team to enter the Championship for 2010.
I also heard Trident might be interested in Italian F3 as well.

[F3 Fan]

More tests for the Italian F3, 2 days at varano:

Day 1:
1 – Giacomo Barri – BVM/Target – 1’02”60
2 – Giovanni Venturini – RP Motorsport – 1’03”50
3 – Vittorio Ghirelli – Prema – 1’03”80
4 – Biago Bulnes – RP Motorsport – 1’04”1
5 – Christian Mancinelli – BVM/Target – 1’05”6

Day 2:
1 – Giovanni Venturini – RP Motorsport – 1’02”7
2 – Kevin Giovesi – BVM/Target – 1’02”7
3 – Biago Bulnes – RP Motorsport – 1’03”0
4 – Vittorio Ghirelli – Prema – 1’04”6
5 – Vicky Piria – BVM/Target – 1’05”9

These are all unofficial times.
All on Michelins the 1st day but Ghirelli (Prema) used Kumhos on the 2nd day. Funny to see the time difference...

[F3 Fan]

Testing at Vallelunga Day 1:

1 - César Ramos - BVM-Target (K) - 1’31”111
2 - Giulio Glorioso - Gloria (M) - 1’31”244
3 - Carlos Munoz - Prema (K) - 1’31”246
4 - Marco Moscato - BVM-Target (M) - 1’31”774
5 - Kevin Mirocha - BVM-Target (K) - 1’32”117
6 - Alex Fontana - Corbetta (M) - 1’32”479
7 - Andrea Roda - RC Motorsport (M) - 1’32”891
8 - Alessandro Silvestri - Corbetta (M) - 1’33”304
9 - Matteo Davenia - Prema (K) - 1’33”461
10 - Pasquale Di Sabatino - RC Motorsport (M) - 1’34”009
11 - Barrett Mertins - Alan Racing* (M) - 1’34”525
12 - Vittorio Ghirelli - Prema (K) - 1’34”643

* Mygale-FPT

M=Michelin
K=Kumho

Funny to see Pasquale di Sabatino in a F3 car...

[kerrmanningjarv]

Maybe he is just helping RC Motorsport out (he drove for them in WSR), sometimes teams bring senior drivers into test sessions purely to help with set-up.

[F3 Fan]

Day 2 at Vallelunga:

1 - Giulio Glorioso - Gloria - 1’30”298
2 - Carlos Munoz - Prema - 1’30”760
3 - Pasquale Di Sabatino - RC Motorsprot - 1’30”760
4 - César Ramos - BVM Target - 1’30”916
5 - Andrea Roda - RC Motorsport - 1’31”193
6 - Samuele Buttarelli - Prema - 1’31”623
7 - Ronnie Valori - Alan* - 1’31”823
8 - Alex Fontana - Corbetta - 1’31”885
9 - Kevin Giovesi - BVM Target - 1’32”460
10 - Alessandro Silvestri - Corbetta - 1’32”557
11 - Barrett Mertins - Alan* - 1’32”619
12 - Vittorio Ghirelli - Prema - 1’33”242

* Mygale-FPT

[F3 Fan]

Stephane Richelmi has signed with Lucidi for 2010:

Alan Racing:
BVM: Cesar Ramos
Corbetta: Alex Fontana
Europa Corse:
Gloria: Giulio Glorioso
Lucidi: Stephane Richelmi
Prema: Samuele Butarelli
RC: Andrea Roda
RP:
Ghinzani: Luca Defendi
JD:
Ombra: Alberto Cerqui

[Valker]

RP is considering Mygale for 2010. Jesse Krohn tested both Dallara and Mygale in Valencia for two days with RP. They also did some tyre testing on Kumho.

[Go_For_Pole]

Also BVM will step up from Azzurra with Ronnie Valori driving a Mygale.

[F3 Fan]

Alan Racing has announced the 2010 drivers:

http://="http://www.italiaracing.net...d=25763&cat=9"



Alan Racing: Matt Lee , Mertens Barrett, Fabrizio Comi
BVM: Cesar Ramos
Corbetta: Alex Fontana
Europa Corse:
Gloria: Giulio Glorioso
Lucidi: Stephane Richelmi
Prema: Samuele Butarelli
RC: Andrea Roda
RP:
Ghinzani: Luca Defendi
JD:
Ombra: Alberto Cerqui

[Valker]

Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole

Also BVM will step up from Azzurra with Ronnie Valori driving a Mygale.

BVE

[Go_For_Pole]

you are right of course