Kart Safety

[the man]

Looking back on different crashes in karting why hasn't the safety of karts improved? Like having a role bar or a little seat belt across your stomach be in place because of the close racing going on this kind of wheel to wheel racing?
regards
The Man

[Stephen Green]

I have thought about this in the past, having seen two fatal crashes at the British Kart GP some years ago. The main problem regarding seat belts will be a lack of anchor points. Probably the same for a roll cage unless it were to be built onlt the chassis. Then of course you have the problem of raising the centre of gravity!

With most accidents where the kart comes to a sudden halt, ie it hits a pit wall or something simsilar, the driver is thrown forward and into the steering wheel, often causing severe chest and stomach injuries. I wonder whether some form of Kevlad chest plate, not dissimilar to those worn by motorcycle racers for their backs, could be used as an extra protection?

[everett brown]

the idea of no seat belts, no "roll" bar in karting is simple, if you go upside down you want to be thrown clear of the kart, chest and a rib belt protectors have been used for yrs in kart racing in the USA. We use aero designed, strong nose pieces to protect our legs and feet and to absorb the impact. Its not safe racing a kart with your feet exposed. I have seen some kart racers hurt there feet and in a worse crash scene, lose there foot. Nosepieces are a must for driver safety.

[the man]

You have point saying that you want to get out of the kart when you have a roll Everett brown but what if you run wide and hit a barrier at about 100k/ph and you get sent airborne (not rolling over) but you get lifted out of your seat (not getting thrown out) and you hit the wall. That would hurt you with severe head injuries because your feet got caught underneath the steering wheel and other components where your legs go.

[pink hood]

i think if you put roll bars on a kart it would look like a day to brighton on the merry go round. although it could stop an injury i dont think it will happen. putting seat belts on a kart would make it dangerous you would be stuck under the kart forcing injury to yourself. although i have seen my best freind pass away due to a karting incident i cannot see a big change happening. there is good rib protection from tillet racewear which is very good and has saved people in incidents.

[philneast]

There are lots of different sorts of karting around the world.

Here in Australia the major form is Sprint Karting, that is usually 100 to 125cc single two strokes around
a 700 to 800 metre purpose built "road" circuit.

One of the safety features of tehes type of karts is the low centre of gravity. This keeps the kart low to the
ground and the right way up. Adding a roll bar would raise the centre of gravity of the kart making it
more likely to roll.

Ane of teh key features of track safety is run off room. This is designed to prevetn a kart from hitting aany
solid object at speed. In the runoff areas ther should be a retarding material such as woodchips that slow
the kart dramtically but not too quickly before a barrier can be reached.

A common barrier is wall of old tyres that stop the kart but still have some give so the stop is not too
sudden.

On edanger with open wheeled vehicles is contact with another vehicle's tyres. Nose cones and side pods
have reduced the possibility of this happening.

Considering the number of people participating in karting and their level of experience the safety record
is very good.

[Stephen Green]

Phil, I accept your comment about the safety record in karts, but let's all agree that safety is never 100% and we should always be looking at ways to make it more safe. I'm not suggesting the comments we have made so far are necessarily the right way to go, but at least it has provoked some interesting discussion.

The tragic accident I whitnessed was the result of a kart being tapped from behind, forcing it to spin into the wall, the driver was then forced forward and the steering wheel driven into his chest killing him.

I have to admit that I wasn't aware of rib and chest protectors, hence my previous comment about them being a good idea.

While having raced in a few corporate events in karts, my main responsibilites are as a race marshal for cars where roll cages etc are regulation.

If there were a way to introduce seat belts and roll hoops to karts, then it is my belief it would save more lives which has to be a good thing wouldn't you agree?

Stephen.

[strad]

It would do the opposite..

[Morris 1100]

There was a move in Aus a few years back for headrests so if you hit very hard backwards you don't break your neck! But nothing came of it.

[philneast]

Stephen I assume you are talking about a Super Kart accident at Brands Hatch?


These are very different from the Sprint Karts I race.

Those Super Karts are extremely fast. In another thread Everett Brown highlights the fact hat Eddie
Lawson holds the outright lap racord at Willow Springs road circuit with a Superkart and mentions
straight line speeds of 240 KMH.

That is seriously fast and I don't think I would like to go that fast in a kart.

Our little sprint kart tops out at about 90 KMH on the downhill run on the back strait at the local track.
The more powerful classes go a bit quicker but nowhere near the speeds of those super karts.

If you have alook at this site( http://www.users.bigpond.com/philneast/ ) and check out the picture
galleries. These are purpose built sprint kart tracks. The intention is to have plenty of run off room and
soft barriers constructed from old car tyres. Before you get to the tyre barriers there is usually a catch trap
filled with woodchips. This seems to work pretty well for our karts.

Sprint Karting is regared as an ideal traing ground for drivers and we have plenty of children and
beginners racing. Putting numbers of inexperienced drivers on a track naturally results in a large number
of accidents, usually harmless.

[Stephen Green]

Hi Phil,

Yes that was the incident I was referring to. Many thanks for putting me straight on the difference between the race karts and sprint karts, I hadn't realised there was such a difference.

Unfortunately there was not one but two deaths on that fateful day at Brands Hatch and the British Kart GP has not been held there since. I must say that I was quite shocked to hear the number of drivers that day who told me they had never driven a 'long circuit' race before and I would imagine that racing on the Brands Indy Circuit is vastly different from the normal kart tracks which are obviously very much shorter (and narrower).

Good luck with your racing, it's always good to be given more information so thanks once again.

Stephen.

[the man]

you have point about that the run offs at sprint tracks are big but wot about the run offs at the street events. there is basically nuthin there. What should they do about this?
regards
the man

[philneast]

Street circuits are a problem.

I can only speak about the track a t the Derwent Entertainment Centre in Hobart where I have competed
and helped build the track.

. The corners at the end of the fast sections had good run off area. Where the track had very little run off area the track was very tight. The use of short straits and tight corners kept the speeds down and woodchips were used as catch traps to slow the karts down before they hit the barriers.

The woodchips present their own problems in that when a kart goes into them they can be spread over the track itself. They are really slippery, so it takes a lot of work sweeping them off the track.

Check this address for pictures:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/philnea.../frindex5.html

It is still far from ideal and the governing body (Australian Karting Association) recognise this and
restrict entries to the more experienced karters. You need a "B" grade licence minimum to run. The progression is start out on a Provisional "C" then to a full "C " licence then onto a "B". You must also have run the class of kart in a race meeting on a permanent circuit and have your licence endorsed to prove it. This is to stop drivers from moving up to a more powerful class for the big meeting when they have no idea how to handle the faster kart.

It still was scary and intimidating to be going that fast so close to the barriers. I did have one high speed lose, but there was plenty of room and I didn't even get near the woodchips.

[stevie.murray]

intresting discusion..as a Kart marshal myself I've never seen a fatal crash.cuts,bruises,bumps,bangs and some broken bones,yes.but no fatality's THANK GOD! seatbelts,rollcages...no..no..guys sprint karts are designed with a low gravity to throw the driver away in a accident preventing 100kls landing on the driver.the rear is also wider than the front of the kart making it very difficult to flip when you have a off.I agree there's a lot of valid points in the discusion on circuit safety.purpose built kart circuits in britain have tyre walls,so if you do go off this prevents the karts going on to other parts of the circuit causing something more serious.They also have good run off areas for the most part comprising of woodchips,sand,grass,or all.The sidepods,nosecones,and racetrim all consist of a polycarbon plastic to absorb a sudden impact to a extent granted,on the whole though they do prevent injury.Some are made from fibreglass,not so good!!Most serious accidents seem to be confined to street circuits by what I seeing here,however these were designed without kartracing in mind.You would think safety measures could be put in place for kart meets..although street marshals could answer these ?'s better than I..I've marshaled superkarts at my home circuit

[KartingFun]

Basically I think it's simple. Seat belts would cause more injury. Having hit a tyre wall after seizing at 80 mph I was glad to not be restrained. The tyres gave with the impact and I walked back to the pits. Roll bars sufficient to be of any use would be costly and difficult to fit. It would also raise the weight of the kart itself giving it more momentum in the event of a crash. Lets remember that karting is the lower end of the motor sports ladder for those of us who can't afford the likes of single seaters etc with seat belts and roll bars. Much of the danger comes from the circuits themselves. Those with solid walls close to the track create a greater danger to those with run off areas and well prepared tyre walls. Bottom line is that, like all things in life, the act of going fast carries risk but looking at the level of participation, and the variety of karts and karting against the safety record I think seat belts and roll bars would make this safety record worse. Compulsory neck braces ? now there's a more sensible idea !

[yelodwg]

I think the UK has got the idea with full width rear bumpers, but WHY in the world would they NOT have mandatory neck braces like in the states?? What about Australia?

Tom Stephens
www.kartfinder.com

[superbird]

so where's all these serious neck injuries in the UK then Tom? My dad got whiplash and is still seeing a chiropractor over two years later after an accident when he was wearing a neckbrace, so I really can't see that they would be much good for preventing anything more serious. I won't be wearing one unless I need it for comfort reasons

Anyway, on a general safety note: At the track I help out at in the UK (PF International) until last November the ambulance hadn't needed to go to the hospital for 18 months. I think we do pretty well in this sport. I want to race a kart, not a car, and certainly not a puny little fake racing car like a kart with roll bars and seat belts would be.

[philneast]

Neck braces are recommended in Australia but not mandatory.

[yelodwg]

Superbird ( ), I don't know what to tell you about the neckbrace issue. I am still surprised to hear about the UK's not requiring neckbraces. I just would think (no concrete evidence to the contrary) that they would help rather than hinder. The main reason they are required here is to help protect the collarbone from the helmet moving forward in a crash.

A lot of the neckbraces I have seen here in the states are of the useless variety that are made of a soft foam...way too soft to offer any protection!

I finally got my kart and am now practicing for my first race in April. I wear one of the newer neckbraces with the additional foam piece that goes down the back of the neck. More protection I hope, but hope I won't need it. I am glad they have neckbraces over here as I have seen a chiropractor every 2 months for @ 18 years. BTW, my wife also sees a chiropractor, but as of last year, was able to stop many of her visits in exchange for getting regular massages!

Now, I wonder if you guys/gals have a fine safety record at your track because of your wider rear bumpers and breakaway noses??? If you can keep karts off the backend of others, you shouldn't need neckbraces in the first place?????????

And, I am NOT for roll bars/safety belts

Philneast, do most wear neckbraces or not?

Tom

[philneast]

In our club and state racing I would guess maybe less than half.

My son and I don't wear one. We run in the slowest class and don't see them as important at the speeds we reach.

If we get a Rotax Max then we probably would wear them.

[yelodwg]

Philneast, do you have the wider rear bumpers?

Tom

[philneast]

No, our karts have a crash bar that runs between teh two outside frame rails. The rear wheels are exposed at the back.

They sound like a good idea but I would like to hear how they work in practice.

My only reservation is that it may encourage drivers to use them to push karts out of the way. Occasionly we have a run in hire karts that have full perimeter bumpers. Tehy get a lot of use to move karts out of the way.

Here is my son ready to go in our kart that we share.

[superbird]

Now, I wonder if you guys/gals have a fine safety record at your track because of your wider rear bumpers and breakaway noses??? If you can keep karts off the backend of others, you shouldn't need neckbraces in the first place?????????

well the safety rules are the same all over the country, but I don't know much about the safety record at any other tracks. If our track is better though I think its because the competition is very good which means people put in a lot of time and effort and so are less willing to smash their stuff up. We get one or two people that seem to delight in causing as much trouble as possible, but that seems to be less dangerous overall than what happens at some tracks where everyone just smacks hell out of each other

I don't support mandatory neck braces because I don't think theres enough safety benefit to enforce something that only affects the person wearing it. With the rear bumpers they protect both the drivers involved in contact. I can see the logic in wondering whether they encourage more punting but I'm not sure it has an effect. In internationl level races they don't have them but they ride around on each others bumpers the same amount, they just flip more

[Warwick]

A kart driver was injured in Invercargill NZ when his kart rolled,he wasn't thrown out as this was an indoor kart where safety belts and roll hoop are compulsory,being upside down with pressure on the belt he was unable to release the belt,fuel from the tank leaked on to him and caught fire and he ended up in hospital badly burnt.

[yelodwg]

Warwick, if your story isn't the best example I've heard of for NOT having seat belts....whoa!!!!

Philneast, Superbird, I have been on a crusade to get the wider rear bumpers allowed in IKF so that's why I am so curious as to their safety record.

"My only reservation is that it may encourage drivers to use them to push karts out of the way." Precisely my concern. But doesn't the UK also run CIK breakaway noses which would help solve that problem.

I don't support mandatory neck braces because I don't think theres enough safety benefit to enforce something that ONLY AFFECTS THE PERSON WEARING IT. With the rear bumpers they PROTECT BOTH THE DRIVERS involved in contact. I understand the logic.

So what about this,

1) wider rear bumpers to keep the rear kart off the front kart's rear wheels, limiting airborne incidents.
2) breakaway noses to keep drivers from using their nose as a battering ram, causing the front kart to go off the track
3) then, maybe I could see VOLUNTARY neck braces as the main reason for using them would be in a flip. Less, flips, less neck injuries?

Am I looking at this correctly?

Tom Stephens
www.kartfinder.com

PS. Philneast, clean kart! Looks like you're running HPV???