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Old 17 Oct 2008, 07:55 (Ref:2314469)   #1
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FIA announces standard engine tender!

EEK!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71456
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 08:06 (Ref:2314478)   #2
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Wha duh fuh?

So, they drive out all the privateers, now they are driving out all the manufacturers? Im totally confused
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 08:30 (Ref:2314498)   #3
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FIA clarifies regulation.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71459

So basically you can still build your own engine to the exact specifications of the standard one...why bother.

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Old 17 Oct 2008, 08:37 (Ref:2314504)   #4
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Originally Posted by Marbot
FIA clarifies regulation.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71459

So basically you can still build your own engine to the exact specifications of the standard one...why bother.
Because there will always be loopholes to exploit......

I can build an engine for my race car to the exact spec of the regs. I know of a number of people who build to the exact same spec. And get 5-10% extra hp....although the fact they need to meet a performance criteria is a more of a restraint.

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Old 17 Oct 2008, 08:41 (Ref:2314506)   #5
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Because there will always be loopholes to exploit......

I can build an engine for my race car to the exact spec of the regs. I know of a number of people who build to the exact same spec. And get 5-10% extra hp....
So it's not exactly to the same spec then.

I wonder what the "prescribed range" is?

"Where competitors choose to build all or part of their standardized engine, the appointed provider will assist the FIA in ensuring all engines and parts have been built in accordance with the appropriate design and conforms to a performance output in a prescribed range."

Anyway it's official now.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...f1_tender.aspx

Last edited by Marbot; 17 Oct 2008 at 08:43.
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 09:05 (Ref:2314527)   #6
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Down F0rce should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridDown F0rce should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridDown F0rce should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridDown F0rce should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
This could all be an attempt to gain some leverage in negotiations on the FIA's part of course. But you never know in F1 these days...
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 09:11 (Ref:2314534)   #7
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Wow. If this is brinkmanship, then it's tough but clever. If it's what they actually intend to do, I suspect this may be the moment F1 starts into a CART/IRL type split.
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 09:17 (Ref:2314543)   #8
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Clever in the way that it doesn't actually stop them from building an engine to put their name on,which is what they wanted.But what would be the point if you can buy an identical performing engine for much less.Certainly the 'independent' teams are going to opt for the FIA engine.
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 09:28 (Ref:2314552)   #9
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Hmmm, this announcement makes me think even more that GP2 is a 'template' for the future of F1 but whether that's an FIA F1 or a GP1 is another matter.....

I wonder if Meccachrome will get the tender?!!

I'm probably against the grain here, but I really couldnt care less if there's limited technology in F1 and engines are built to a standard spec. As long as we get close, unpredicatable racing.

The manufacturers surely won't be that bothered as long as they get their badge on something for substantially less than it costs now and people can still see their name around the world!

Ironically, F1 appears to have somehow or other become very close at it is now which is what we want (same happened towards the end of 1997, just before the last big set of changes in 1998) but if the cost of the thing isn't sustainable (as it surely isn't in this crazy world climate) then it has to be made closer by reducing the cost.
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 09:37 (Ref:2314558)   #10
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This is ridiculous, Mosley's meant to be waiting for FOTA to present proposals for cost cutting, why on earth does he need to pre-empt the teams?
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 09:44 (Ref:2314563)   #11
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This is ridiculous, Mosley's meant to be waiting for FOTA to present proposals for cost cutting, why on earth does he need to pre-empt the teams?
They'll probably have to rethink what they came up with now won't they.
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 10:29 (Ref:2314591)   #12
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They'll probably have to rethink what they came up with now won't they.
Number 1 on the list ought to be to ask for the removal of the FIA president.

But sadly it looks like he's set to ignore them completely.
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 10:32 (Ref:2314592)   #13
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Time to move my focus to my other interests in life ...
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 10:44 (Ref:2314597)   #14
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More I think of it, the more my earlier post may be misread.

When I said the makes may not be bothered as long as they get their badges out there, i'm sure they would much prefer it to be an engine they made themselves, even if it is one built to a much more standard spec!!!

Going too much the 'one make' direction is not on though.....

There's going to be a massive 'discussion' next week when they all meet!!!!!
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 10:45 (Ref:2314598)   #15
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2 things about this :

o Its scare mongering by Max... this is how he operates when he doesn't get his way, he's done it before. Its likely nothing will happen with this.

o If it did happen, it might actually be a good thing. It would significantly reduce costs and make F1 accessible to more teams. Furthermore, if it does drive manufacturers out of the sport, it could possibly be more of a level playing field helping the plight of independent teams.

Spank spank !
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 11:07 (Ref:2314618)   #16
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This could be a coincidence, but this week's Autosport Magazine carries a large advertisement for jobs by Caterpillar for their Perkins Engines plant in Peterborough...
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 11:24 (Ref:2314621)   #17
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MMM If I was a manufacturer, I'd walk away from this - What would I stand to gain ( say if I'm mercedes ) if everyone knows the Toyota engine is exactly the same as mine ??? If there are to be small differences through building your own engine, how much is getting that last few hp going to cost ? Surely a better suggestion would be :- standard spec gearboxes - does anybody actually give a stuff about who makes the gearbox. Standard electronics, Standard block, crank and con rods with pistons, heads and induction free. The engines would be different enough to be considered manufacturers own engines, and the outfit that got the contract to supply the 'half engines' could supply complete 'spec' engines to privateers.
Whilst we are at it, pit lane exits should be closed when the start light goes out until the chequered flag drops - winning races through pit lane tactics has no part in the supposedly 'ultimate' race series. Start the grids with the drivers with the most championship points at the back, and those with the least at the front - forget any technical arguments- overtaking would return at a stroke -aerodynamic excuses or not ! If the worlds top drivers can't overtake, perhaps they will be replaced by those who can ! Not too aggressive though -(No names)
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 11:28 (Ref:2314624)   #18
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Spritle has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
No USGP, no Canadian GP, No French GP, maybe a total abandonment of the Western Hemisphere...

Jeez if I want an open wheeled spec series where I can get close racing at reduced speeds with dumbed down cars at exciting tracks AND be able to see a race live without going halfway across the planet I'll follow IRL/Champ Car. It ain't all road courses but neither are some of the Tilke tracks.

Has ANY team saved ANY money with all of these constant rule changes in the name of cost savings? It reminds me of the US Shuttle program. The reusable spacecarft was supposed to save money and ended up costing way more than expendable spacecraft.

The only good news is Max and Bernie are old and won't be around forever.

But then again maybe the fans can't wait that long...
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 12:48 (Ref:2314675)   #19
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So, Formula 1 is to become a spec series. Finally Max gets what he wanted already ten years ago.

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Old 17 Oct 2008, 13:09 (Ref:2314690)   #20
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So, Formula 1 is to become a spec series. Finally Max gets what he wanted already ten years ago.
Finally, a playing field upon which March can regularly compete with McLaren
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 13:26 (Ref:2314709)   #21
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If Max and Bernie are serious about this, then it could be a master stroke.

Given the current economic climate - recession plus lack of finance to buy new cars - the auto industry is in for one of its most difficult periods ever. It would be no surprised if they one by one they dropped out of F1. Toyota, Honda and Renault have question marks over them even now. F1 needs to transform itself into a series that doesn't need car manufacturers and this would seem to be what M+B are doing - by pre-emptively eliminating them.

This proposed new format would render developing and producing your own engine folly. The place to showcase manufacturer technology will be the much cheaper touring car and sportscar scene a la VAG now.
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 13:37 (Ref:2314715)   #22
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Finally, a playing field upon which March can regularly compete with McLaren
So, is that where this viscious rivalry started?
Why didn't I think of that?
(Off topic: I've just noticed that my post count is now greater than my Ebay feedback. Does this qualify me for the 'Most unmeaningful piece of information of the day' award?)
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 13:38 (Ref:2314717)   #23
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Originally Posted by Spritle
No USGP, no Canadian GP, No French GP, maybe a total abandonment of the Western Hemisphere...

Jeez if I want an open wheeled spec series where I can get close racing at reduced speeds with dumbed down cars at exciting tracks AND be able to see a race live without going halfway across the planet I'll follow IRL/Champ Car. It ain't all road courses but neither are some of the Tilke tracks.

Has ANY team saved ANY money with all of these constant rule changes in the name of cost savings? It reminds me of the US Shuttle program. The reusable spacecarft was supposed to save money and ended up costing way more than expendable spacecraft.

The only good news is Max and Bernie are old and won't be around forever.

But then again maybe the fans can't wait that long...
Don't lump IRL in with Champ Car.

Champ Car was awesome, IRL is dumbed down rubbish.

Don't mix the two up.

(btw Champ Car doesn't exist any more)

Otherwise what you said was spot on.
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 13:40 (Ref:2314721)   #24
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Sooooo......

What price the 'spec' engine being a Ferrari unit?
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Old 17 Oct 2008, 13:50 (Ref:2314727)   #25
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Finally, a playing field upon which March can regularly compete with McLaren


It would be great to see Mosley resurrecting March, slapping Ron Dennis with some gloves and settling scores on the track! Even funnier to then watch March being repeatedly lapped by McLaren. That would be soooo good.
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