**** (sorry small) grids and marshalling

[Richard Sneader]

I agree with you Darrell, BARC are trying there best and making improvements for drivers and marshals. I do think BRSCC have lost the plot and with the BRSCC meetings I have done this year to date the grids have been far from a decent number and marshals numbers were nothing to write home about.
Also most of the Brands meetings are 2 days and people have to work weekends and bank holidays in this country.
The MSA dont seem to want to do anything about it( the amount of new serise's for this year proves that and I believe the Focus cup has folded) And the clubs will not work together to produce more joint championchips or something along those lines.
I still fail to see why the BRSCC prices are very high. They also had problems at Lydden last year trying to fill any races as BARC were racing there on the Sunday at a much cheaper rate so drivers waited.
I do not have the answers but I am getting more picky with what I do and avoid certain meetings like anything with the Uniroyal VW Challenge for example.
Rich.

[Stephen Green]

Barry, I will try to drop Grant an e-mail on the subject today.

[Bob Pearson]

The pressure should be mounting on the BRSCC, if you guys are now avoiding marshalling for them, certainly BARC Renault haven't run with them for some years now because of their high prices and the manner of some of their officials.

[Bob Pearson]

Darrell, a pity you didn't get round to say hello, we were in an outside paddock, it was quite relaxing with heaps of space and the Pembrey staff falling over themselves to be helpful. An absolute pleasure.

[RMR]

Just like to add my view on the subject. It is such a shame that there a so small grids at the moment, I saw that in the FF1600 race at Lydden there were very few cars. I know of quite a few drivers like myself who have the car are are gagging to get on the circuit. But we just cannot afford it. after joining the championship, joining the brscc, buying the transponder and the paying £190 for 15 mins of racing I cannot justify it. Last year there was not cost of the transponder and the fees were borderline of being too much. This year I feel that the racers especially the FF1600 that have disappeared simple cannot afford to race.

[Stephen Green]

I fully understand the pressures drivers and teams are under in the current economic climate, this always happens in times of poor economic growth or a tightening of the belt by sponsors etc.

Bob, I am not suggesting we stage a revolt, merely that I will write to Grant and explain my personal feelings regarding the meetings I marshal.

Like many marshals I offer my services between 2-3 weekends per month. I accept that it is my option to do so and that no-one forces me to marshal. My point is that by working so many weekends, I want some enjoyment for my efforts and if the club (BRSCC) are aware of my feelings, then it may make some small difference in the longer term. I am not niaive enough to think for one moment that if I don't volunteer the meeting will be cancelled

I will attempt to get the e-mail off today and revert with the answer.

[JR Ewing]

RMR

Why don't you look at the Star of the Midlands which has prize and start monies??

Mallory can be very exciting to race at in an FF1600 as it so close (like Brands and Combe)

Or the BARC single-seaters to keep 'your hand in' for the Festival etc. £100 a meeting, no championship fee, BRSCC membership will suffice (as I read on another, dedicated, thread)

[RMR]

Need something southern, have considered it but travel cost etc. more competitive though and start money? will investigate, cheers JR

[JR Ewing]

RMR, When I had a more modern car I was doing this series, 3 or 4 years ago now. The prize money was ace with, IIRC, £300 for the win and some cash down to about 5th or so plus other prizes to spend in Hewitt Motor Sport.

Pete Daly who is the sponsor these days has, I think, just agreed to restructure this for start money due to shrinking grids. You might need to enter a few races to get the benefit. If you find out the full details why don't you post a thread on here as it may help with entries.

I've got an old RF88 in bits at the minute and may come out to play for a bit of fun later in the year...

[Keith Wheeler]

It is the MSA 's responsibility to address the issue of too many championships. They have formed a group (can't remember it's name) to do exactly that, but there doesn't seem to be any action forthcoming.
Too many organising clubs start championships in the hope of taking money from racers. The BRSCC seems to be the worst. Why they introduced the Focus championship I don't know, you thought they would have learnt after the Interactive Sports Car debacle. Car manufacturers don't help by starting one-make championships as a publicity exercise, then pulling the plug a couple of seasons later (eg Rover Tomcats, Protons, MGF's - will Formula Woman go the same way?).
The MSA MUST get a grip on this, but I suspect that there are too many self-interested parties involved to get a real solution.
Maybe the circuits should call the shots and only invite those championships that will provide good racing for spectators and all the other championships should race at non-spectator events - it happens with 'club'meetings in America.

[Stephen Green]

Maybe another angle would be that any new series, whether promoted by a club or manufacturer, giving the MSA a guarantee that they will support/promote the series for a minimum period. Let's say 5 years for arguement?

[neil_davidson2]

Is the problem small grids or uncompetetive "racing"?

I agree that six cars (or less) hammering around a circuit isn't the most scintillating of prospects, but on the other hand I'm sure we've all seen grids of 20+ cars spread themselves out on the first lap and then never get near each other again until they gather in the pits at the end.

This is a risk you run especially in a grid that has a larger number of classes, as you get when you amalgamate a number of end-of-life series. Maybe we should be asking clubs to look at minimum entry per class rather than overall grid?

[RMR]

Will do JR. Sounds good to me, i will investigate.

Ive heard a few people mention that there making a return later in the year.

cheers.

[james tucker]

I have read all and agree something has to be done....
as a co-ordinator my job is to find as many cars as I acn to pay the hourly rate charged by the club in question,if I cannot find the cars I have to pay the bill myself...The clubs are not co's they run race meetings and should employ
co's to do this job, but no-one can in this modern world of ours work for nothing, as it is a full time job to look after 60-80 cars and if you pay x you get monkeys.....
the super coupe's was put together by 5 drivers, (me being one of that number)who later ran the club and enployed the current co, who has done the job for 5-6 years, things have changed since it started but it is still successful....
more of the clubs series need to be amalgamated so that different series with different speeds etc and larger grids can entertain you guys... and I know I will be told I should not have said this ,but, vote with your feet...they will have to listen,and come back with 'but we have always done it this way' it is time for change...

[Stephen Green]

Thanks for the informed comment James, nice to hear from someone on the 'other side of the fence' as it were.

It has been suggested in the past that we (marshals) vote with our feet and to some extent we already have if you consider the lack of volunteers to marshal the British GP last year and this. But for many of us to let down the smaller clubs or formula is a step too far. I guess there is no easy answer to the problem but as promised, I did e-mail Grant at the BRSCC yesterday with my personal views.

[Bob Pearson]

Stephen, your position regarding defence of clubbies is a very honerable one. However James Tucker talks a lot of sense.
I believe that among the higher echelons of Motor Racing a belief still exists that a bottomless pit of Marshals/drivers exists and any vacuum caused by either walking will be filled without any action being required.
I must say that I think BRSCC are in the process of learning otherwise and there are signs that some parts of BARC have already learnt.
How anyone can get close enough to the MSA to try to show them is totally beyond me.

[james tucker]

Stephen the support from manufactures with regard to new series is not the problem...as the cars are well made and become 'club sports' supply for series such as super coupe or top hat.....the problem comes from one club and how many are there? within the BRSCC for instance..with each one seeing a series which is doing well and copying it at Lydden or Snett /or/or and taking cars from the main series
to have a race at Lydden.The car having an engine go or an accident and now not being able to do the proper series.
When is Golf GT CAR???........
as long as you have the MSA
you will not have a police force. because the only money they earn is through licenceing drivers/series/clubs/race meetings/championships/mashalls/clerks/scutineers and tracks.... and in a shinking market they need the MONEY..

[Stephen Green]

Once again, thanks for the informed comment guys. It seems that I will have to vote with my feet along with other marshals, checking grid sizes before meetings etc and deciding which I wish to attend or officiate at. It really saddens me to take this route as I have been a fan of motor sport for over 35 years (yes it's true, I really am that old) but there are other calls on my time and I cannot justify to myself spending a day on the banks watching 6 car races. I'm off to cosole myself with a Magnum ice cream now, bugger the diet

[Cynic]

From the marshals standpoint there is also the issue of geography to consider. I'm a bit unfortunate in that my closest circuit is Thruxton (which is about 40 miles away). After that every circuit except Silverstone is pretty much a hundred miles each way. I simply can't justify travelling that sort of distance if all I've got to look forward to is half a dozen races consisting of ten cars each.

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally posted by Cynic
I'm a bit unfortunate in that my closest circuit is Thruxton

Cynic - We understand!!

[Teletubby]

I say, that's rather harsh!

[Mad Hats]

Lydden is my local circuit and I attended last years BRSCC event (as a spectator instead of my normal role as a marshal) and was very disapointed as to the grid size. This year I didn't bother as it looked like it would be just as bad. From the drivers that I have spoken to, it appears that the BRSCC is far more expensive than other clubs, SEMSEC in particular has fielded some good grids and excellent races at Lydden by combining a sprint event in the morning with a race meeting in the afternoon. I can't speak with any authority on the matter but surely the BRSCC should be able to charge lower fees to enter races at a circuit like Lydden where track-hire is cheaper albeit with less facilities ?

[Tony_J]

Until a couple of years ago the other half and I travelled the majority of UK circuits doing 40 days a year + rallies when the circuits stopped. About three years ago we decided to have a sabattical and have hardly been back, yes I do miss it. But long days, small grids and weak racing, plus short breaks, little thanks and a dwindling budget for fuel made me realise there's more things to do with my time. This year with a reocurrence of a crocked back I haven't done a single meeting. I'm still getting my fix from rallies. Will I go back, maybe, but things have got to improve first.

[Snapper Baz]

Who remember's the BHRC Brands Hatch Racing Club. I knew a lot of marshals who belonged to that club-I presume because it was cheaper than the BRSCC(and I THINK they got packed lunches/drink supplied though I may be wrong). For some reason the club was wound up (pressure from the BRSCC?)and many stopped marshalling there and then.And then everyone (for Brands clubbies)had to join the BRSCC and pay more money and less privileges to boot...anyone heard that one before?? Perhaps you could look at this way (marshals):I want to build a new house...I find some brickies who enjoy the job...the brickies pay me to build my house...I laugh all the way to the bank. Trouble is it won't take long before one brickie susses out that it doesn't seem right that he's building my house so that I can live in it! What I'm trying to say is that it just seems greed is running said club and it is about time that they should realise that it is them that is about to ruin British National motorsport and not the circuit ownwers (who obviously charge a fortune we know). Stephen-we await your reply from the club (if it ever happens) with trepidation! ....phew thats a long word for me!!

[JimW]

I would not wish to be thought an apologist for the organising clubs but, just for fun, could I list some of the pressures on them.

Money,
Money,
Money. . .

Well I could go on but you get the idea.

I'm sorry that we do not see more open information about the costs of running even the most simple club meeting. Some of what I know has been found out in circumstances where I don't feel that it would be fair to give details but see what you think of this:

An enthusiasts' club wants to run a race day at a circuit. Total payment to the circuit is in excess of £22,000. Now divide that up among the drivers. Oh and don't forget to add in the following:

MSA
Insurance
A few officials whose expenses are paid.
Timekeepers
Marshals raffle, pourboire or similar
Printing the programme
Other paperwork
Rescue unit hire
and other things I have forgotten.

Now I at least understand why they need to cram in races and run until the curfew operates or the light fails.

Of course we all then vote with our feet.

Add to this some races which seem to my jaundiced eye not really to be races but "Track time" run under a permit. I quite understand why clubs/drivers might want this but it does not make for the sort of spectacle which brings spectators and marshals back in spite of long days and limited lunch breaks.

OK I still support some of these days because of some excellent racing, a nice friendly atmosphere and decent people. But if I am honest I do tend to go for clubs like 750MC and some others (BRSCC NW) who offer a club atmosphere and good racing. Very few races are of such numbers or racing quality to support more than 8 to 15 lap races. Drivers may find 30 minute or 1 hour 'races' to be good value but I find them less than exciting.

Regards

Jim