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20 Apr 2012, 22:14 (Ref:3062837) | #1 | ||
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Red & Yellow Stripey Flag
Whether you call it the oil flag, the slippery surface flag or whatever, I have always been taught that it is always stationary, never waved. An explanation was given that it can look red if waved.
In a moment of boredom I found myself browsing through the Blue Book and was a little surprised to find Section Q Para 15.1 stating: (g) Yellow flag with Red Stripes – Stationary: Slippery surface ahead. surface imminent.(h) Yellow flag with Red Stripes – Waved: Slippery Clearly the BB is the official words of wisdom. Does this mean that my training has been incorrect? |
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Caterham Academy 2006, Roadsport B 2007 |
20 Apr 2012, 22:26 (Ref:3062840) | #2 | ||
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I thought it was never waved & made a (slightly) sarcastic comment on this very forum saying so. Only to be made to look like a complete arse...........
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I used to be with it, until they changed what it is. Now what I'm with is no longer it. |
20 Apr 2012, 22:27 (Ref:3062843) | #3 | |||
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Quote:
if necessary to get movement in the flag I use the "pole in one hand and opposite edge of flag in the other (as for a stationary flag) but then move it up and down to give some movement" method - which also works for any flag needing to be waved on very windy days Dave |
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Dave Eley Flag & Experienced Marshal |
21 Apr 2012, 09:04 (Ref:3063018) | #4 | |
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As Dave has stated above the movement up and down of the flag is the best way to 'wave' the oil flag. A standard figure of 8 has a tendancy to blur the colours into a orange mess!
A 'waved' oil flag should only be used for a 'Torre Canyon' magnitude oil spill though! |
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21 Apr 2012, 09:40 (Ref:3063039) | #5 | ||
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[QUOTE=Norbert;3063018]As Dave has stated above the movement up and down of the flag is the best way to 'wave' the oil flag. A standard figure of 8 has a tendancy to blur the colours into a orange mess!
QUOTE] This is, in my view, an accurate summation of the situation with the red and yellow flag. It would interesting to hear views of current flag marshals and competitors, to see perhaps if the instruction in the Blue Book needs changing. If so, I am sure Chris Hobson as Chair of the MWG and Race Committee member would be happy to raise the matter there. |
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21 Apr 2012, 10:18 (Ref:3063055) | #6 | ||
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The only time i was asked to wave the oil/slipperry surface/debris flag,was in Belgium in 1989 when immenant rain was coming! and then it rained for hours!
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and the answer to last weeks question...........................was with a warm spoon! |
21 Apr 2012, 10:40 (Ref:3063063) | #7 | ||
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I've never waved it, although a vigorous wiggle can help to draw attention to it!
The up-and-down-while-holding-it-steady approach is effective too. |
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Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other. |
21 Apr 2012, 12:58 (Ref:3063131) | #8 | ||
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Don't wave it, rock it enthusiastically!
The perception of looking at a waved stripey flag is for the lighter color to 'disappear' - so it looks like a dark pink flag... |
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Everybody, sooner or later, sits down to a banquet of consequences. Robert Lous Stephenson |
21 Apr 2012, 14:31 (Ref:3063163) | #9 | ||
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Yellow flag with Red Stripes- Stationary: Slippery.
Yellow flag with Red Stripes- Waved : Very Slippery |
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Columnated ruins domino |
21 Apr 2012, 17:27 (Ref:3063223) | #10 | ||
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If I recall correctly, the "oil flag" (showing my age) is the only one that does not have to be waved under FIA regs.
My view is that if you have enough "slippery surface" that you require an advance warning then you wave your "oil" flag and the previous post holds out a stationary. |
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Too old and too past it - now if only I could remember what "it" is! But I do know I'm now Mrs Turnbull. |
21 Apr 2012, 21:12 (Ref:3063303) | #11 | |||
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Quote:
I don't mean that to disagree with your way of use, which is consisent with my brief experience, but to say the Blue Book version sounds a bit aray. |
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22 Apr 2012, 11:00 (Ref:3063568) | #12 | ||
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The way i would interpret the rules is (for example) if a car had dragged a load of gravel/dumped it's oil on a corner, the preceding post would 'wave' the flag, while the previous would show a stationary. Same procedure if a large bit of debris was on a straight.
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I used to be with it, until they changed what it is. Now what I'm with is no longer it. |
22 Apr 2012, 12:46 (Ref:3063612) | #13 | ||
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I have waved it.......that's what I was taught1 Also, the preceding flag point would display it stationary - pretty much like yellows!
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22 Apr 2012, 18:25 (Ref:3063798) | #14 | ||
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I'd be interested in a driver's opinion of a waved oil flag. If I want to emphasise the seriousness I move it up and down vigorously but keeping the face of it clearly visible. However, that didn't work very well with F BMW a few years ago. The first eleven (if I recall correctly) cars still went off at Cascades.
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22 Apr 2012, 18:47 (Ref:3063813) | #15 | ||
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Quote:
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22 Apr 2012, 20:53 (Ref:3063874) | #16 | ||
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From a drivers point of view a stationary stripey flag is less confusing than a waved flag!
PS we are easily confused!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Pete |
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22 Apr 2012, 21:37 (Ref:3063892) | #17 | ||
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When I did my first flag training day we did a very basic test of this - from some distance away, did a waved stripey flag still look like a stripey flag? It did.
Granted, it's different standing some distance away from driving at speed past it - but it's a test all the same. Especially considering that a waved stripey will be preceeded by a stationary stripey, I have no problems in waving it - I'll just make sure that the preceeding post has identified it correctly before I do. Can only think of once I've needed to do it in practice though. |
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DDMC Rescue Crew, Post Chief & Flag Marshal |
22 Apr 2012, 21:46 (Ref:3063896) | #18 | |
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I had a need to display a 'waved' change of surface flag at Donington today. Considering the wind at the time it was a 'move from side to side' flag instead because there was a constant strong wind directly onto the flag, if I'd waved it all the drivers would have seen was the stick!
That said the oil dropped by a Mini was all the way round the circuit so if the drivers hadn't realised they were either blind or extremely skilful... |
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22 Apr 2012, 22:29 (Ref:3063911) | #19 | |||
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If you actually read the Blue Book it gives the order of flags for the use of yellows but there is no requirement for that procedure with the change of surface flag. Any flaggie(s) I teach, mentor.... will be told to agitate, shake or as an extreme measure move it up or down or in circles but never wave it. There is no standard design for the change of surface flag, only a minimum size. So, do you have 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 panels, if an odd number are there more yellow than red. When held horizontally are the panels vertical or horizontal? If you start waving the flag the colours merge and do they then tend towards yellow or red!!! who knows it becomes a lottery. To misquote a well known comment from GI Jane when the MSA gave the instruction that the CoS flag could be waved I believe someone "had a brain f*rt". |
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Ian Chalmers, Maker of circuit flags. |
23 Apr 2012, 10:16 (Ref:3064160) | #20 | ||
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And think how quick and easy it would be with a landline system, for the post 'agitating' their flag to request the previous post to hold a stationary CoS flag as the end of their sector might be involved but be unseen by them.....
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Everybody, sooner or later, sits down to a banquet of consequences. Robert Lous Stephenson |
23 Apr 2012, 10:30 (Ref:3064167) | #21 | |
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Must have taken all of 20 seconds for that to happen yesterday. I spot oil, Post Chief phones RC, RC phone post 7, flag goes out. Magic things, phones
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23 Apr 2012, 11:02 (Ref:3064184) | #22 | ||
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Everybody, sooner or later, sits down to a banquet of consequences. Robert Lous Stephenson |
23 Apr 2012, 11:21 (Ref:3064192) | #23 | ||
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You can have a lot of cars off on oil in 20 seconds. Look at Brands TC...
However, we're off topic. |
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Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other. |
23 Apr 2012, 12:06 (Ref:3064221) | #24 | ||
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Everybody, sooner or later, sits down to a banquet of consequences. Robert Lous Stephenson |
23 Apr 2012, 13:25 (Ref:3064271) | #25 | |
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