2009 IndyCar Schedule

[indycool]

Spoken like a true road-racing-at-all-costs fan.

[Purist]

I didn't say that. However, great on-track action alone will not give an event it's own, unique identity. Even with Nashville gone, there are still six of those medium length ovals with moderate to high banking: Homestead, Texas, Kansas, Kentucky, Chicagoland, and Motegi. There are two shorter ovals (Richmond and Iowa), while there's just one 1.0-mile oval (Milwaukee), and then the single superspeedway (Indy).

The distribution is way out of whack while the variety of ovals is relatively minimized. And take a look at my 25-race (unrealistic for certain) fantasy schedule again. It included 10 ovals (that's 40 percent of the schedule). I did choose ovals to some degree on open-wheel history. And though there was a relative abundance of 1.0-mile ovals, no two of them have the same sort of similarity in plan form that Kansas, Kentucky, and Joliet all share. And from what I can tell, the sort of racing you get at Kansas, Kentucky, Joleit, and Texas is quite similar.

[enemy-ace]

I am no doubt a road-racing fan and have found my interest in the IRL to be not as strong as I thought it would be after unification. I understand the need for ovals but I don't think the current crop carry the needed allure. I would like to see Michigan and Fontana back. Bring back the Speed!

[johntt]

Originally Posted by enemy-ace

I am no doubt a road-racing fan and have found my interest in the IRL to be not as strong as I thought it would be after unification. I understand the need for ovals but I don't think the current crop carry the needed allure. I would like to see Michigan and Fontana back. Bring back the Speed!

Agreed - Michigan, Fontana, Indianapolis, Loudon, Motegi, Milwaukee and Phoenix would be my choice of ovals.

Low banks, low downforce high power, 230mph down the straights and 190mph in the corners. Lets see who can really drive.

[indycool]

Times have changed.

When the term "superspeedway" was coined, it meant "any track a mile in length or more." That included road courses. Indeed, NASCAR records were kept statistically called "superspeedways" and "short tracks."

Street courses were considered road courses when they were run through the streets of Watkins Glen or when they go to Monaco. There are really no differences between a street course and a road course.

In any case, NASCAR doesn't seem to have any problem running all those ovals that some think are the same.

[Purist]

This is NOT NASCAR though. This is Indycar, and the series gained a great deal of notoriety through the VARIETY of tracks that it ran on. I am by no means proposing we go all the way back to the USAC days when dirt ovals and the Pikes Peak Hillclimb were part of the championship. I am, however, saying that the venue selection needs some work. I already said that I liked a 40/60 split with 40 percent ovals. I could make do with the 10/8 ratio we have now for the time being. The thing is, a number of the best (most critical in my mind) road races are not currently included in the mix (Cleveland, Surfers Paradise, Road America, and Mexico City), and one third of the total schedule is on a particular type of oval.

And even with how much they can spread out the races at the 1.5-mile ovals, I find the NASCAR schedule at least somewhat repetitive.

[indycool]

Short ovals, long ovals, high-banked ovals, lower-banked ovals, flat ovals, take your pick.

Of the four you mentioned, only Surfers has potential IMMEDIATE consideration, IMO.

Cleveland has consistently lost money and has gone through Newcomb, Penske, IMG, CART, CC and Lanigan as promoters which have lost that money there. Road America has bounced around on and off, dates from July to October, a lawsuit that Andretti solved and finally track rentals and frankly needs a little breathing time before it should try it again. Mexico City consistently lost attendance and I don't even know if there is a promoter there any more.

[Purist]

Well, sometimes you have to BUILD events if you want to build a great series. The reason so much **** happens in so many areas of business is because people ONLY concentrate on the short-term, often in an attempt to please shareholders.

If Cleveland was really so terrible, it simply would NOT have lasted 25 years, period. Road America has only actually missed two years since its inception into CART in 1983. Particularly with NASCAR dropping Mexico City, I don't see too many of their locals getting rides in that series, but they'll need rides somewhere to continue to move up in their careers. IRL could provide that for at least a few of the better Mexican drivers, which would in turn substantially increase attendance at a Mexican round.

Personally though, I'm not partial to drivers from a particular country. I can say that I'm a fan of Andretti, Rahal, and Dale Jr. (since I followed his father before him). But then again, among my other favorites are Jan Magnussen (Denmark), Hans Stuck and Karl Wendlinger (Germany), Mika Hakkinen and Kimi Raikkonen (Finland), Craig Lownes and David Brabham (Australia), Ron Fellows (Canada), Michel Jordain Jr. and Adrian Fernandez (Mexico), and Helio Castronueves (Brazil).

[johntt]

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...ycar-schedule/

Robin Millers view of a perfect schedule

[Bernard Bram]

Originally Posted by Purist

... Karl Wendlinger (Germany),....

Austrian. Still an exceptionally good driver.

[Amar7605]

Originally Posted by johntt

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...ycar-schedule/

Robin Millers view of a perfect schedule

He made a very good point about many of the current tracks having contracts that have to be fulfilled. So it won't be until 2010 before there can be a potential oerhaul of the schedule.

[Alwaysfirst]

I must admit that I am massively underwhelmed by the 2009 schedule. Even if some events do have contracts to see out I am very dissapointed that they still couldn't organise those extra 2 or 3 events that were promised, even with the massively increased interest in the series... and as for the possibility of Surfers not being on the schedule! Not imperessed.

I for one am a big oval racing fan & I loved the IRL before the road courses were introduced...but I also loved CART & CCWS so I'm a big fan of road racing as well & I think it's a massive shame that there is still only one superspeedway on the schedule, only one 1 mile oval there and then 6 1.5 mile ovals.

I also think that it is a shame that Mexico City isn't there. Yes the 3 day attendance has been dropping...but it still attracts more fans than you can get at 2 or even 3 of those 1.5 mile ovals combined. Not really a market that the series should be turning it's nose up at IMO.

If we were to say that there should be 10 ovals on the schedule then I would like to see Indianapolis, Michigan, Texas, Chicagoland, Kansas, Las Vegas, Milwaukee, Loudon, Richmond & Iowa. Also, should Pocono make the changes that will soon be required of it then I think that it would be a great addition to the series.

Road/street/airport course-wise I will stand by saying that 8 tracks are just too few. With 10 ovals I would like to see 6 road courses (Watkins Glen, Mid-Ohio, Infineon, Portland, Mexico City & Suzuka to keep Honda happy), 4 street courses (St Petersburg, Long Beach, Surfer's Paradise, Toronto) & 2 airports (Cleveland & Edmonton).

IMO one of the main problems that Indycar now has is that without expanding its schedule & getting rid of less popular tracks then the schedule is never going to be right as there are too many good tracks just sitting on the sidelines at the moment that are seemingly being ignored...and that includes ovals as well as road courses.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Amar7605

He made a very good point about many of the current tracks having contracts that have to be fulfilled. So it won't be until 2010 before there can be a potential oerhaul of the schedule.

His ideal schedule is quite good as well. The only changes I would make is swapping Sears Point out for Laguna Seca, and changing Sebring for Mexico City (Sebring, along with Road Atlanta and Mosport are sportscar turf , and Indycar needs a presence in Mexico)

[Purist]

Bernard, thanks for the correction on driver nationality.

Alwaysfirst, I hope that was just a case of brain fade that Road America failed to make your proposed schedule. And I must be honest, I despise the motorcycle layout of Sears Point, which is what IRL uses.

[indycool]

AlwaysFirst, it would be nice to wave a magic wand and say "this is what it'll be." Unfortunately, in racing, you have contracts, promoters, sanctioning bodies, TV, sponsors, venues, weather, dates available and such that preclude any entity from doing that.

And Infineon announced today that it had a new three-year deal with the IRL.

[Alwaysfirst]

Well, yes, it was mostly brain fade BUT the other tracks on there (Suzuka excepted) actually want the IRL racing there. Road America has said that it cannot afford it & that they have no intention of trying to afford it. Whilst I'd love to see the track on the schedule I don't think that a track that has made it clear that it doesn't want to be there should be.

And yes Indycool, I do know all of what you said. That is one of the reasons why the only track that has a contract for next year that I have missed off is Homestead as I just don't think it should be on there. They've shown no desire to promote thus far & the attendance is almost always poor. If they don't do it this year then they never will & they need to go.

[Amar7605]

You know what track I miss? Phoenix International Raceway. I'm not saying that is should be on the schedule. It's just that I always liked seeing the Indycars race there.

[Purist]

A track stating that it cannot justify a particular series' sanction fee is NOT the same thing as saying that they simply do not want Indycars there. I suspect part of it is that they are doing their utmost to recoup the costs of the work they did a year and a half ago: new buildings/facilities, and replacing that bridge with the tunnel.

[mattcat]

Originally Posted by Alwaysfirst

That is one of the reasons why the only track that has a contract for next year that I have missed off is Homestead as I just don't think it should be on there. They've shown no desire to promote thus far & the attendance is almost always poor. If they don't do it this year then they never will & they need to go.

You know, it is a great shame but you're right about the attendance. Homestead is my home track and I have been going to open wheel races there since it was a mini-Indy configuration and CART was racing. That being said, I don't know what it is with sports fans in general here in South Florida, but they just don't seem to get it. There were entire rows that were empty at the speedway this year where I was sitting. You even hear about available tickets for the NASCAR race (which is the season finale) up until about a couple of days before the race, so it's not exclusive to the IRL.

I don't think it is an issue with a lack of promotion. They do a fair job of promoting the race (there are always billboards and banners up on the highways a couple of months before the race up where I live, which is an hour and a half drive away from the track, and you hear about it alot on the radio and on local TV). I think its the same reason that the Miami Dolphins couldn't sell out their playoff games a few years ago, or the Florida Marlins are lucky to get 13,000 people to come to a Saturday night baseball game. There aren't enough people passionate about sports in this area.

I sincerely hope that Homestead remains on the schedule, because as I said, it is my home track and I thoroughly enjoy the racing that it produces. But if people in the South Florida area don't suddenly come around and realise that there is a great facility offering a great product here, I believe it will not return to the schedule in 2010, and that would be an unfortunate loss, in my opinion.

[Oldtony]

Interesting development is that all the talk among the local politicians (who sign the cheques) here in Queensland is what they are going to replace IRL with for 2009. The most common opinion is A1GP. The v8Taxis by themselves is a definite No No, but it could be that the Government will opt for scapping the whole motor race concept and put the money into developmemt for the Commonwealth Games 2018 on the Gold Coast, aiming for a run for the Olympics in the late 20's.
Pity, it's been a great carnival over the past 20 odd years but I think TG and his isolationist thinking may have killed it.

[Amar7605]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Interesting development is that all the talk among the local politicians (who sign the cheques) here in Queensland is what they are going to replace IRL with for 2009. The most common opinion is A1GP. The v8Taxis by themselves is a definite No No, but it could be that the Government will opt for scapping the whole motor race concept and put the money into developmemt for the Commonwealth Games 2018 on the Gold Coast, aiming for a run for the Olympics in the late 20's.
Pity, it's been a great carnival over the past 20 odd years but I think TG and his isolationist thinking may have killed it.

God, I hope not!

Let's see how this exhibition race goes this year. If everything goes well, then theh IRL should be back in 2009. The Queensland politicans are probably thinking of a backup plan should things not go so well.

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by Amar7605

God, I hope not!

Let's see how this exhibition race goes this year. If everything goes well, then theh IRL should be back in 2009. The Queensland politicans are probably thinking of a backup plan should things not go so well.

Well it's been a long time since IndyCar/IRL/CART/Champcar has appeared on Australian free to air TV with the exception of the Surfers event. I used to enjoy staying up to watch the Champ Cars go round and remember the sad day Greg Moore was lost to us. Since around that era, nothing.

So it might be a great race, but most of the Aussies who show up probably no naught about IndyCar and are their for their V8s. They also probably enjoy the spectacle of the open wheelers but it's not the same if you can't get behind your favourite driver or team.

[Amar7605]

Well at least the IRL has Team Australia, Will Power, and Ryan Briscoe. Could that be enough to generate Australian interest in the IRL?

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by NickoGP

Well it's been a long time since IndyCar/IRL/CART/Champcar has appeared on Australian free to air TV with the exception of the Surfers event. I used to enjoy staying up to watch the Champ Cars go round and remember the sad day Greg Moore was lost to us. Since around that era, nothing.

Dude 07 was the first year of non US open wheel on FTA in Australia. Even then it was highly accessible on pay tv and internet

Originally Posted by NickoGP

So it might be a great race, but most of the Aussies who show up probably no naught about IndyCar and are their for their V8s. They also probably enjoy the spectacle of the open wheelers but it's not the same if you can't get behind your favourite driver or team.

You mean u cant get behind Will Power and Team Aus or Ryan Briscoe driving for Penske

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Dude 07 was the first year of non US open wheel on FTA in Australia. Even then it was highly accessible on pay tv and internet

Well I certainly wasn't aware of it before 07 if that is the case. I don't have pay tv and internet coverage doesn't cut it for your average fan. They just want to tune in and watch them go round and round.

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

You mean u cant get behind Will Power and Team Aus or Ryan Briscoe driving for Penske

Look at it from a normal viewer perspective. They might not even know that there is Team Aus or anything about Ryan Briscoe. You don't need to convert your RPM-watching up to speed on the world of motorsport people - it is those who are the casual fan who add the extra bums on seats.

If they can't just flick over for a replay on a Saturday afternoon (since remember they don't really care if it is live or not) and get to know the teams and the series, why should they shell out hundreds of dollars to attend a race?