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Old 19 Jun 2013, 16:35 (Ref:3264965)   #76
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Never say never, but it's hard to image IndyCar at Mosport anytime soon unless either the Toronto race collapses or somebody throws crazy money at IndyCar to hold a Mosport race. The main issue is that Mosport is simply too close to Toronto.
Bear in mind that Toronto has I think 2 years leaft in the contract including this year. Beyond that - well Toronto is hosting the Pan Am Games in 2015 on the same site at the same time. Rumour has it there will be significant development of the Exhibition Place site to prepare...
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Old 19 Jun 2013, 17:22 (Ref:3264986)   #77
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Oh yeah, the Pan Am Games...

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Bear in mind that Toronto has I think 2 years leaft in the contract including this year. Beyond that - well Toronto is hosting the Pan Am Games in 2015 on the same site at the same time. Rumour has it there will be significant development of the Exhibition Place site to prepare...
I believe you're right, contract through 2014 but not beyond (as yet).

I hadn't thought about the Pan Am games. Potentially adds an interesting twist.
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Old 19 Jun 2013, 18:07 (Ref:3265014)   #78
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Toronto's contract does expire with the 2014 race, the race has traditionally been hosted on the 2nd weekend of July, which is opening weekend for the Pan-Am games which will have multiple events on the CNE grounds, but not the opening ceremonies.

The weekend before is typically Pride, no reason they can't co-exist but that would shutter both east and west sides of downtown, which I don't think is likely.

Caribana is the week after the closing ceremonies and does occupy the CNE grounds which rules that date out.

I don't know what Green-Savoree's plans are for this event after 2014, but hopefully they don't abandon the year and host the race either in June or August - I could see it working well with Father's Day weekend or the 4th weekend in June which coincides with Ontario Craft Beer week, which would be a great cross promotion with the two craft brewer's who hold the pouring rights for the race.
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Old 19 Jun 2013, 19:02 (Ref:3265033)   #79
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Hi guys.

Hosting the race and the Pan Am Games at the same time will be a logistical nightmare.

Currently the road cycling events (which will use some of the roads the indy car race does) will start/finish at Exhibition Place. Triathlon, roller sports (speed) and the marathon are also scheduled to be held in the area.

The triathlon is scheduled for the first weekend and the marathons the second weekend.

Here is a mockup of how Exhibition Place will look for the Pan Am Games:




If you have anymore questions just ask
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Old 20 Jun 2013, 17:52 (Ref:3265584)   #80
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Hi, Indy Toronto!
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Old 20 Jun 2013, 18:04 (Ref:3265602)   #81
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Old 26 Jun 2013, 23:59 (Ref:3270249)   #82
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Robin Miller says he "keeps hearing ChicagoLand is making a big push to bring IndyCar back". August?

He proposes a week-on, week-off schedule from February to October. I think that mid-February is far too early, but late March is too late. Phoenix has a Nascar race in early March, so that's still tough.

I'd try to move Detroit to early September, then Houston and Fontana a bit earlier.
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Old 2 Jul 2013, 18:45 (Ref:3273015)   #83
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http://www.racer.com/derrick-walker-...icle/301114/2/

Seems like Phoenix and COTA have the best chances of getting on the 2014 or 2015 calendar. Interesting to see how some of the "better regarded" circuits have attendance issues with Indycar.
The general answer is "that would be great, but we need a promoter". Like, there's not too many realistic options to add new races.
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Old 8 Jul 2013, 17:14 (Ref:3275452)   #84
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2015 Toronto... maybe OT by now?

Possibly off topic now (2015 vs. 2014) but the Bid Book for the 2015 Pan Am games in Toronto is here:

http://www.toronto2015.org/assets/fi...id-Book-EN.pdf

(Warning: it's big, 42 Mbyte pdf).

The only reference to IndyCar is on page 115 of the pdf (embedded page number is 103), where it says that the road cycling course will "begin on the IndyCar Series Course on the grounds of Exhibition Place...".

Over-interpreting this statement might suggest that there will be an IndyCar race and that the track set up would be used in part by the Pan Am games. As written, it seems intentionally vague.
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Old 9 Jul 2013, 19:18 (Ref:3276021)   #85
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It justs describes the venue of the event.

The real problem is that the Pan American Games will be held on July 10-26. It will be a mess if the race happens during that time.
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Old 9 Jul 2013, 19:57 (Ref:3276037)   #86
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I guess a lot depends if Green Savoree can renew the race, as there is no contract in place beyond 2014. The Province is also looking at that time frame to revamp Ontario Place on the south side of Lakeshore so this may be the penultimate race on the site
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Old 11 Jul 2013, 02:27 (Ref:3276418)   #87
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I guess a lot depends if Green Savoree can renew the race, as there is no contract in place beyond 2014. The Province is also looking at that time frame to revamp Ontario Place on the south side of Lakeshore so this may be the penultimate race on the site
Mosport (CTMP) in 2015....PLEASE!!!

Anything to get the Indy Cars off that god awful street course at Exhibition Place and back to a real, natural terrain road circuit at Mosport where they belong.
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Old 11 Jul 2013, 02:57 (Ref:3276425)   #88
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They wont be going to Mosport. Too much car, not enough track.
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Old 11 Jul 2013, 17:58 (Ref:3276695)   #89
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I don't see what is so awful about Toronto. Certainly for a street circuit, it's reasonably wide and fast, with a couple of good overtaking spots per lap, and a handful of quick(er) corners.

It's NOT worth it to neuter Mosport just to get Indy Cars there!

Thank goodness they didn't have to change anything at Sears Point to run that sorry layout there; if they can't run the original 2.52-mile course at Sonoma, they need to leave, and go down the road to Laguna Seca.
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Old 11 Jul 2013, 18:08 (Ref:3276699)   #90
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I don't see what is so awful about Toronto. Certainly for a street circuit, it's reasonably wide and fast, with a couple of good overtaking spots per lap, and a handful of quick(er) corners.

It's NOT worth it to neuter Mosport just to get Indy Cars there!

Thank goodness they didn't have to change anything at Sears Point to run that sorry layout there; if they can't run the original 2.52-mile course at Sonoma, they need to leave, and go down the road to Laguna Seca.
I never liked Sonoma and always thought it was a poor man's Laguna Seca.
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Old 11 Jul 2013, 18:23 (Ref:3276708)   #91
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I LOVE the original layout, but IndyCar insists on using these alternate layouts at the Turn 7 hairpin, plus the chicane before Turn 10, and a shortened Turn 11. For the first few years, they used the Motorcycle Circuit.

All the construction at Sears Point since 1997 has made the place look like something of a sandbox; then again, Laguna Seca looks that way now too, since they made the modifications for MotoGP.

For all the comments about Sears Point being so sinuous and technical, the unmodified course is actually faster than Laguna Seca has been, after they made the changes for the 1988 season.

Turn 1, the Carousel, the Esses, and Turn 10 at Sears Point are all first-rate corners, and the track as a whole DEMANDS concentration and rhythm that is second to none.

A few samples of the full, unmodified course at Sears Point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBZDFVifppg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcQX-dFGMBY

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Old 11 Jul 2013, 23:28 (Ref:3276813)   #92
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I LOVE the original layout, but IndyCar insists on using these alternate layouts at the Turn 7 hairpin, plus the chicane before Turn 10, and a shortened Turn 11. For the first few years, they used the Motorcycle Circuit.

All the construction at Sears Point since 1997 has made the place look like something of a sandbox; then again, Laguna Seca looks that way now too, since they made the modifications for MotoGP.

For all the comments about Sears Point being so sinuous and technical, the unmodified course is actually faster than Laguna Seca has been, after they made the changes for the 1988 season.

Turn 1, the Carousel, the Esses, and Turn 10 at Sears Point are all first-rate corners, and the track as a whole DEMANDS concentration and rhythm that is second to none.

A few samples of the full, unmodified course at Sears Point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBZDFVifppg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcQX-dFGMBY
Ah, the good old days...

I love Sonoma Raceway (ahem, Infineon). Always have, and I think part of that was because I believe the very first race I ever watched was the 2005 NASCAR Nextel Cup race there. It was one of the first, at least, and that's when I became hooked on racing.
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Old 17 Jul 2013, 15:36 (Ref:3278764)   #93
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They wont be going to Mosport. Too much car, not enough track.
And nobody in Toronto knows where Mosport is. The Toronto race relies on fans from downtown who can get there on public transit. Plus, where would all of the IndyCar teams, guests, and the media stay? Bowmanville and Oshawa only have so many hotels, and none of them are convenient to the track.

Much as I love Mosport, I would also not like to see the huge amounts of new catch fencing that would be required. There's already more than before.
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Old 17 Jul 2013, 21:07 (Ref:3278870)   #94
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Mosport and Mont Tremblant...

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Old 17 Jul 2013, 22:24 (Ref:3278906)   #95
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And nobody in Toronto knows where Mosport is. The Toronto race relies on fans from downtown who can get there on public transit. Plus, where would all of the IndyCar teams, guests, and the media stay? Bowmanville and Oshawa only have so many hotels, and none of them are convenient to the track.

Much as I love Mosport, I would also not like to see the huge amounts of new catch fencing that would be required. There's already more than before.

Well, that says as much about society these days as anything!! Funny how in the 60's and 70's, back in the good ole days before Blackberries, PC's and GPS systems, about 200,000 people from Toronto and Southern Ontario and the Eastern U.S. found their way up there for a Can-Am race.

People are just plain lazy. If it all isn't dropped in their laps and handed to them, they don't want anything to do with it.

I think you might be surprised however, how many people from Toronto suddenly have to figure out where Mosport is when the NASCAR Trucks are there on Labour Day weekend.

One other thing. I kept hearing about how "full" all the grandstands were at Toronto this past weekend. I saw 5 grandstands, and 3 of them were half empty when you looked from overhead shots. Don't let the spin doctors fool you. That race continues to have difficulty drawing and has nowhere near the drawing power it once did.
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Old 18 Jul 2013, 13:59 (Ref:3279121)   #96
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LOL

That ads could say "Highway 401, exit 431 Bowmanville"
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Old 18 Jul 2013, 15:17 (Ref:3279133)   #97
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Well, that says as much about society these days as anything!! Funny how in the 60's and 70's, back in the good ole days before Blackberries, PC's and GPS systems, about 200,000 people from Toronto and Southern Ontario and the Eastern U.S. found their way up there for a Can-Am race.

People are just plain lazy. If it all isn't dropped in their laps and handed to them, they don't want anything to do with it.

I think you might be surprised however, how many people from Toronto suddenly have to figure out where Mosport is when the NASCAR Trucks are there on Labour Day weekend.

One other thing. I kept hearing about how "full" all the grandstands were at Toronto this past weekend. I saw 5 grandstands, and 3 of them were half empty when you looked from overhead shots. Don't let the spin doctors fool you. That race continues to have difficulty drawing and has nowhere near the drawing power it once did.
Yeah, those crowds back in the Can-Am and Canadian GP days were completely nuts.

Good point re the NASCAR trucks... it will be interesting to see what the attendance is like. Although that will attract more of the camp-at-the-track crowd than would go to the Indy.

The Indy attendance was decent both race days (I was there about 12 hours each of Fri/Sat/Sun). The Saturday crowds were much bigger than usual, with the race drawing people in. The main grandstands were not packed with every seat full but they were quite busy. Sunday was busier, again not 100% packed out but quite full. It seems to me that the combined attendance from both days was more than in 2012 or 2011 but it is a bit hard to tell since the number and configuration of grandstands has changed.

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Old 18 Jul 2013, 20:00 (Ref:3279186)   #98
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Yeah, those crowds back in the Can-Am and Canadian GP days were completely nuts.

Good point re the NASCAR trucks... it will be interesting to see what the attendance is like. Although that will attract more of the camp-at-the-track crowd than would go to the Indy.

The Indy attendance was decent both race days (I was there about 12 hours each of Fri/Sat/Sun). The Saturday crowds were much bigger than usual, with the race drawing people in. The main grandstands were not packed with every seat full but they were quite busy. Sunday was busier, again not 100% packed out but quite full. It seems to me that the combined attendance from both days was more than in 2012 or 2011 but it is a bit hard to tell since the number and configuration of grandstands has changed.
When you have a capacity of 13,000 and miniscule 'General admission' options, making the place look fill is an easy task.
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Old 19 Jul 2013, 01:28 (Ref:3279235)   #99
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When you have a capacity of 13,000 and miniscule 'General admission' options, making the place look fill is an easy task.
YES!!! Someone finally gets what I am getting at.

I am not disagreeing that the attendance this past weekend was definitely the best since the race came back in 2008. But to state that there was 35,000 people there on Sunday. C'mon. Who's kidding who?? Absolutely spin doctored. There are 5 grandstands holding about 13,000 people and very limited GA. Dixon talked about the people on the grass hillsides on Lakeshore. Well, yes. They all congregate there because there is virtually no where else to watch from in GA. Turns 5 through 9 are completely off limits, and lots of people used to watch down through there. Including the Corporate Suites, I would say you might - at best - have had 25,000 there on Sunday. AT BEST!

The only good thing I will say is that the Turn 3 grandstand looks like a proper grandstand now. They need more of those, especially down in the area by the fountain that is now blocked off. That is a neat section of track that no-one can even get to anymore.
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Old 19 Jul 2013, 02:10 (Ref:3279242)   #100
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Don't use common sense though, we know that a series that used the business model of street races that really have 20k or less attending, but say ''150,000 over the weekend" was very successful. Collect the Cheque, air it on T.V. for 5 people to watch, and magic.Not sure what it was called though, kind of reminded me of CART, although it looked a lot more like GP2, it was on Spike TV and I'm sure is very successful to this day.
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