Hamilton vs. Vettel - the next big F1 rivalry?

[chillibowl]

[LH is] so vain, I'll bet [he] thinks this song is about [him].

but seriously though, why are the affectations worn by LH any more or less of problem then the clothes of MS, JYS' signature hat, Hunt's teased hair, or Hill's moustache etc etc? F1 drivers generally run in very image conscious circles and for the most part all have their unique flair or style. some may argue that modern sports is like that now...personally i think sport has always encouraged (and rewarded) such flamboyance...it just used to be called individuality and confidence.

anyways, from what we know about LH, it seems his biggest rival is history and the legend of Senna. can he best his records and will he be remembered as a great and hopefully greater then his true rival. outside of needing to beat their team mates, im not sure the extent that any of the current top level drivers see each other as a 'rivals'...that level of respect and curiosity of what the other is doing hasent existed in f1 since schumi vs mika imo. perhaps to some extent it could have been there between LH and FA but 1 season was too short of a time frame.

from the fan point of view, im sure they would like build up these rivalries as a selling feature but from the comments here it seems very little of it has to do with actually seeing them pit their skills against one another but rather has this element off warring cultural values, German vs Brit, dating life, and who dresses how.

so if the question is, if this is to be the next big rivalry then there should at least be some sporting examples of their rivalry no?

[bella]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Onto a slightly different subject now but I wonder how often, if at all Lewis does a reality check? I know it's been a long while since his 'humble beginnings' but look where he is now: being paid £squillions to do something he loves (motor sport) and when he's not at work, can spend his time partying with famous and gorgeous females. I suppose there's no surprise that he attracts a certain amount of jealousy now & again!

why does he need to? i mean... he's almost paid *not* to do reality checks, no?

some drivers don't stray far from the same place they were before they struck gold which is totally fine, if you have nothing to run from. for example if you met the girl you want to spend your life with at school, if you're happy living a really simple straightforward life. if you're single, and want to explore the world your wealth and fame/notoriety has opened up for you then why not? you might meet someone you want to be with for a while, you might find that really you're happier by yourself. neither are right or wrong, neither are good or bad. the only problem is when you're trying to live one life because that's what is expected of you when in fact it's another life that will turn you into a better person and racer.

i mean, grosjean is a great example of a guy who lived The Life, met a great woman, put his grown up trousers on, settled down and had a family.

[Paradise City]

There is a vanity aspect to Hamilton, yes. It's a vice of his but I wouldn't over state it. He's not poisoning children's milk or anything and he is a sincere guy.

He seems to be trying to find himself a space on the English celebrity landscape and has embraced the 'Pharrell Williams' aesthetic. But he isn't quite getting it right and people are remarking on it.

Jackie Stewart is most certainly not immune to bouts of vanity either by the way.

I wouldn't say Hunt was a vain guy at all. He was genuinely unconcerned by the people around him.

[chillibowl]

my turn to play morality cop...maybe its not vanity per say, but for someone to have 'allegedly' slept with 5000+ women then i think they very much care what people think about them. desperately care even.

anyways i dont think vanity on its own is a negative trait. having a high opinion of ones self, even an exaggerated belief in ones own self worth, can be, as we have seen with numerous athletes over the years, the quality which allows them to do great things.

having two athletes square off, both with overwhelming belief in their abilities is possibly a necessary ingredient for great rivalries hence the ones who happen to be vain are often the ones involved in the great rivalries.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

..but for someone to have 'allegedly' slept with 5000+ women..

That's 1 a day for the past 13.7 years. He must be very fit and possibly a little dehydrated.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

There is a vanity aspect to Hamilton, yes. It's a vice of his but I wouldn't over state it. He's not poisoning children's milk or anything and he is a sincere guy.

At the end of the race yesterday, my other half commented the LH ALWAYS thanks his team on the radio on the way back in. I think that is much more relevant than whether he has tattoos or earrings.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by JamesH

At the end of the race yesterday, my other half commented the LH ALWAYS thanks his team on the radio on the way back in. I think that is much more relevant than whether he has tattoos or earrings.

His attitude of gratitude to his team doesn't surprise me.

Hamilton is, afterall, a great guy.

[mikuni]

This seems like the right thread to resurrect for the topic:

With the resurgence of Vettel and Ferrari as a whole, I wonder how this puts us for the rest of the year.

If we assume Ferrari hasn't suddenly made a huge speed increase, and Mercedes are still quick, we can then say it must be down to the heat and tyre selection at Singapore.

With that in mind, are any of the remaining races this year likely to experience high heat with a soft and super soft compound mix? The races are as follows:
Japan
Russia
USA
Mexico
Brazil
Abu Dhabi

I'm guessing we could see high temps (not Singapore high, but still high) in Mexico and Abu Dhabi, possibly Texas too, but how is it this time of the year?

I'm trying to convince myself the championship is still alive.

[steve_r]

The WDC championship is still alive, but only if LH's Mercedes breaks down again.

I could be proved wrong, but I don't think Ferrari will have the pace to outright beat Mercedes in enough of the remaining races, so for a non Mercedes WDC you are probably relying on mechanical gremlins or driver errors.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by mikuni

If we assume Ferrari hasn't suddenly made a huge speed increase, and Mercedes are still quick, we can then say it must be down to the heat and tyre selection at Singapore.

also think much of this came down to the tire selection and would like to see more of the super softs.

speaking of tires, how much closer would things be if Ferrari took the points on offer at Spa instead of pushing?

we have been so caught up in Merc's dominance, its kind of hard to believe that we are here at this point in the season with a possibility that SV has a real shot.

too early to say but there could be a '2007' thing going on here with LH focusing too much on fighting off his team mate while Ferrari put all its focus on one car.

[old man]

Interesting to read through this thread and find that it dropped into discussions about men wearing jewellery until a break from Aug 24th to Sept 21st and now is back to real racing matters.

Truth is we had a 3 way battle really in Singapore with Seb running as in days of yore at the front and controlling the gap as he wished, Daniel getting between the two Ferraris with Renault power and all three of them beating both Mercedes. I was really looking forward to the last 10 laps or so with Lewis on the softer tyre to see what he could do. If that had happened I tend to think he may have got up to second place but Seb was probably a bridge too far.

This brings us back to the title of this thread Vettel vs Hamilton, I think we do have a real chance of the days of Prost, Senna and Mansell if Honda get their act together. If not perhaps Ricciardo will be the third player, whatever I believe we have the makings of a real battle next year as engines now seem to be getting more even.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by mikuni

This seems like the right thread to resurrect for the topic:

With the resurgence of Vettel and Ferrari as a whole, I wonder how this puts us for the rest of the year.

If we assume Ferrari hasn't suddenly made a huge speed increase, and Mercedes are still quick, we can then say it must be down to the heat and tyre selection at Singapore.

With that in mind, are any of the remaining races this year likely to experience high heat with a soft and super soft compound mix? The races are as follows:
Japan
Russia
USA
Mexico
Brazil
Abu Dhabi

I'm guessing we could see high temps (not Singapore high, but still high) in Mexico and Abu Dhabi, possibly Texas too, but how is it this time of the year?

I'm trying to convince myself the championship is still alive.

Austin will be cooling down by then .. Daytime temps should be around 75-80 F

[bjohnsonsmith]

I can't think what the last big F1 rivalry was, it's been that long.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I can't think what the last big F1 rivalry was, it's been that long.

You need competitive cars to breed rivalries, at the moment the Mercs are just stroking it around and sailing off into the distance.

It has also been interesting to see that since Wolff said they could discipline Rosberg he has not challenged Hamilton at all and taken to jumping out of the way every time Hamilton threatens to make contact, as we saw this weekend at Suzuka.
What happened to leaving racing room?

[steve_r]

Considering the positions of their two cars, I don't think Rosberg had any choice but to get out of Hamilton's way this time. If he bailed out a bit sooner, he may not have dropped to fourth, and may have been able to apply some pressure to Hamilton through the race. But of course, if he did bail out sooner, he would have been absolutely slated by everyone.

Ferrari are perhaps showing enough signs of resurgence for me to think that this thread might well be going strong next year...

[stripedcat]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I can't think what the last big F1 rivalry was, it's been that long.

Well, I suppose you have to go back to 2008, and Hamilton versus Alonso at McLaren. Hamilton was the new boy - and suddenly he was giving a two time WDC(Alonso) some serious competition. Remember Hungary? Of course, Kimi was in the mix in that season, he won the WDC after all, he sort of benefited from those two fighting it out(not taking anything away from him).

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by stripedcat

Well, I suppose you have to go back to 2008, and Hamilton versus Alonso at McLaren. Hamilton was the new boy - and suddenly he was giving a two time WDC(Alonso) some serious competition. Remember Hungary? Of course, Kimi was in the mix in that season, he won the WDC after all, he sort of benefited from those two fighting it out(not taking anything away from him).

Oh yes, Ferrari massively benefited from that McLaren management fiasco.

Alonso blew a 3rd title by preoccupying himself with Whitmarsh/Ron not keeping Lewis back.

If he had kept his cool the points would have stacked up and Ferrari wouldn't have had a look in.

It shouldve been a McLaren 1-2!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by stripedcat

Well, I suppose you have to go back to 2008, and Hamilton versus Alonso at McLaren. Hamilton was the new boy - and suddenly he was giving a two time WDC(Alonso) some serious competition. Remember Hungary? Of course, Kimi was in the mix in that season, he won the WDC after all, he sort of benefited from those two fighting it out(not taking anything away from him).

I suppose Hill and Schumacher.

[pole2pole]

What I fear about this potential brilliant rivalry between SV and LH is will we ever see it? Will car design rob us from a great hammer and tongs battle on track. Look at Lewis and Nico, two guys in two identical cars, yet the car behind can't get too close to the car in front dew to loss of down force which then plays havoc with tyres. The race is decided on who gets the better start of the line. It's over engineered and too exact. I really want to see this battle between SV and LH , like my goodness, seven world drivers championships between them!!! Then again, look at how those seven championships where won. Unfortunately it's not wheel to wheel racing that wins championships in this era, it's all about gear box and engine changes and grid position drops. I think it takes that sparkle out of the rivalry.

[sparkione]

[QUOTE=Paradise City;3565040]Button goes hot and cold and wouldn't be a match for Alonso over a season.

Out of the mouths...JB is the only man to have partnered both Fernando and Lewis and beaten them both over the course of a season. Softly softly catchee monkee...

[greentrumpet]

[QUOTE=sparkione;3601590]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Button goes hot and cold and wouldn't be a match for Alonso over a season.

Out of the mouths...JB is the only man to have partnered both Fernando and Lewis and beaten them both over the course of a season. Softly softly catchee monkee...

And that other unaccredited chestnut, can only perform in a top notch car!

[Akrapovic]

I really hate the "X beat Y, so therefore he's better" stuff. Coulthard also beat Hakkinen once, and Webber. He is no World Champion is he?

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by sparkione

Out of the mouths...JB is the only man to have partnered both Fernando and Lewis and beaten them both over the course of a season. Softly softly catchee monkee...

I think if the cars were half decent my statement would hold true. Button was more psychologically prepared to deal with a bad car; Alonso was psychological crushed by it as he wants and expects to win championships.

But fair juice to Button; he just knuckled down to do it and did better than his car entitled him to be. Whereas Alonso got flakey and it got to him. So there you go.

[BSchneiderFan]

The ability to keep your head up in adversity is a key part of being a truly great driver. You never saw Michael Schumacher lose his focus or his hunger, whereas (for example) Mika Hakkinen could look bored and off the pace if he was tooling around in 8th. If the Spaniard is really as great as people say, he should have delivered on every lap of every weekend, no matter how bad the Honda unit was.

[chillibowl]

feel like you guys are being overly harsh on Alonso. im not his biggest fan but this was a very difficult year for him starting of with a pre season injury keeping him out of the first race, wide spread speculation that it was far more severe then it was, media second guessing his leaving Ferrari, an unreliable car, many many grid penalties etc

relative to his past behavior, that he didnt completely meltdown should be seen as a minor miracle no? in fairness he was a warrior in 2015 imo.