F1 What the Fans Think

[Casper]

Reliability breeds boredom, a point I have made a few times. The problem is also that the fans (you and me) cannot agree on what they want, a series that uses all the latest technology or a series that has an edge to it because of uncertainty. Let me know when you figure it out.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Casper

Reliability breeds boredom, a point I have made a few times. The problem is also that the fans (you and me) cannot agree on what they want, a series that uses all the latest technology or a series that has an edge to it because of uncertainty. Let me know when you figure it out.

Racing is inherently uncertain Casper, the problem is that the cars are unsuitably designed to race one another, and surrounded by huge paved run offs that are simply driven across when you make a mistake, or want to use them for your advantage. The only penalty currently in F1 is substandard equipment, and as you say that is pretty well reaching perfect reliability!
Hence the fastest, best; most expensive; car always wins - BORING!

And now you can't even fix your equipment deficit for the whole season - incomprehensible!

[Casper]

Originally Posted by wnut

Racing is inherently uncertain Casper, the problem is that the cars are unsuitably designed to race one another, and surrounded by huge paved run offs that are simply driven across when you make a mistake, or want to use them for your advantage. The only penalty currently in F1 is substandard equipment, and as you say that is pretty well reaching perfect reliability!
Hence the fastest, best; most expensive; car always wins - BORING!

And now you can't even fix your equipment deficit for the whole season - incomprehensible!

That is where we disagree. the cars are very reliable and when they weren't it allowed lower runners to advance through field due to mechanical failure which occurred in every race. Blown turbos, leaking hydraulics, broken suspensions, wings falling off, all sorts of stuff went wrong. In fact in days gone past the most expensive was never guaranteed a win, when Renault started using turbos was one example.

Paved run offs I very much agree with because a driver can brake very hard before hitting something. Too many drivers were killed because gravel does very little to slow a car especially an F1 car with wide tyres and little weight as the cars tend to get on top of the gravel and keep on going and there is little or nothing a driver can do about it. As for drivers getting onto the paved area to gain a racing advantage, if they all do the same thing it evens out OR the stewards get involved and penalise suitably and none of them do it. A few starts from the pits would sort them out PDQ

You will note my comment where the fans can't agree and now you see it, we as a group do not know agree to what needs to be done to make good racing so what hope that the mob that run it can come up with an answer?

[littleman]

Personally I think F1 has reached a defining cross-roads.

The format of race weekends is broadly similar to 50 years ago. Practice days,qualifying then a race lasting on average 90 minutes. Is this still valid or does a new generation want something more entertainment driven?

Reverse grids could work if they adopt the method anyone who's ever done karting will be familiar with.Three heats and a Final !

Every driver will get to start the 3 Heats from a position at the front, middle and back of the grid. Each heat would be over say 15 laps. The drivers overall performance across the 3 heats will determine his grid slot for the Final - over say 25 laps.You could have two Heats on Saturday and then one on Sunday morning and the Final in the afternoon. This is how the Super One series does/did operate. Provides alot of racing and scraps the pointless qualifying.

[Greem]

And the inevitable response will be "BUT THAT ISN'T FORMULA 1!!!!'

To which the question is (and has been asked many times): What *is* Formula 1?

Given that we, the enthusiasts (rather than 'fans') can't agree on that, and neither can the teams, or the governing body... well, that leaves us in a bit of a pickle, doesn't it?

[AndyS]

I don't often post in the F1 section but read with interest. As a fan of over 30 years this is the first year I've not really taken much of an interest. All the reasons why have been mentioned already by others from sky tv to paved run off to DRS, the list goes on. The thing that tipped me over the edge was the noise. I wasn't in the slightest bit bothered about the change and wondered what all the fuss was about. I actually found the V8's a bit shrill trackside. But when I watched the race in Australia the sound just wasn't right for me. With everything else I just lost interest.

Reading this thread got me to thinking what got me in to F1 and motorsport in the first place. One, I love cars and always have from being a small boy. My personal opinion is that car culture was a lot more prevalent in the 80's and 90's and I don't get the impression that it is anymore among the youth of today. Maybe I'm wrong but this will clearly affect young people getting interested in the sport.

Two, the thing the really pulled me into motorsport was a combination of the power, the speed, the noise, the risk, the rawness of it, the visceral feel of it, the edginess of drivers pushing to the limit and beyond and doing things I wouldn't dare to or could do, going to an event and being able to literally feel the cars through your feet as they flew by and be able to get up close to them and finally and latterly as I got more into it the passion of it. I don't get any of this anymore from F1. I find it very cold, corporate and sterile now.

Fortunately, there are other forms of motor sport I also love that I can still get this from, but one thing I do know is that the world is changing and whether F1 and motorsport still has the relevance it once did I don't know anymore. I'm only 42 but if the years I've lived so far have taught me anything its to always be open minded and not make snap judgements on things, but I do think its fair to say that F1 and the FIA have come to a pretty big cross roads. It either needs to change or continue to pursue (along with other forms of motorsport) this policy of trying to monetarising everything and all the unfortunate consequences of it. Maybe, its a generational thing and the younger ones think its fine, in which case I stand corrected but I do find the whole thing quite sad.

Right, I've thoroughly depressed myself now so I'm off to get rip roaring drunk. At least that still feels the same.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by Casper

Paved run offs I very much agree with because a driver can brake very hard before hitting something. Too many drivers were killed because gravel does very little to slow a car especially an F1 car with wide tyres and little weight as the cars tend to get on top of the gravel and keep on going and there is little or nothing a driver can do about it. As for drivers getting onto the paved area to gain a racing advantage, if they all do the same thing it evens out OR the stewards get involved and penalise suitably and none of them do it. A few starts from the pits would sort them out PDQ

Paved run-offs are what separate the men (rally drivers) from the boys (F1 drivers).

Montreal has a nice approach in places. A narrow strip of grass with a wall behind it. You go off the edge of the track you end up on slippery stuff and then into a wall, ending your race. Certainly places where there is a prospect of a car going head-on into a wall need lots of (race-ending) energy absorption material between the edge of the track and the wall, but the general rule should be you go off the track, your race is over.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by AndyS

I don't often post in the F1 section but read with interest. As a fan of over 30 years this is the first year I've not really taken much of an interest. All the reasons why have been mentioned already by others from sky tv to paved run off to DRS, the list goes on. The thing that tipped me over the edge was the noise. I wasn't in the slightest bit bothered about the change and wondered what all the fuss was about. I actually found the V8's a bit shrill trackside. But when I watched the race in Australia the sound just wasn't right for me. With everything else I just lost interest. ...

Club racing is still as good as it ever was. Vintage racing is also a lot of fun.

With F1, Bernie did a very effective job of taking the fun out of it.

[codename_47]

I'm very much tired of the negative attitude surrounding the sport atm, especially after such a great run of races we've enjoyed since Canada

As fans its our duty to filter out what we hate from the sport and just focus on what we like. Hopefully the combative, wheel to wheel racing this season can do a lot to allow us to do that.

There's a lot of negative to focus on atm (tarmac runoffs I'll personally never be a fan of, it's plainly not safer if a car has no brakes, no wheels, driver unconsciousness or especially in the wet (no wonder we have to run around under SC if there's even a spec of water on the track). I'm pretty sure the reason tracks are now bathed in it is more to do with Bernie's CGI advert projecting than for any safety reason) and those within and without the sport will have an agenda to bring it down for their own reason

But we are fans and we enjoy the sport. If it becomes too much like hard work, we'll find something else to do with our sundays.
Then their viewing figures/revenues will drop and they'll really make changes needed.
For now, fans need to concentrate on being fans and not negative detractors and doing the sport's enemies jobs for them

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by codename_47

But we are fans and we enjoy the sport. If it becomes too much like hard work, we'll find something else to do with our sundays.
Then their viewing figures/revenues will drop and they'll really make changes needed.
For now, fans need to concentrate on being fans and not negative detractors and doing the sport's enemies jobs for them

In fan terms, the sport's enemies are the silent ones. Those who vote with their feet and walk away as well as those that have no interest in following the sport in the first place. Regrettably, there's a disproportionately large number of these people among the younger demographic and that spells doom for the future. The reason many current fans are becoming increasingly vociferous is that they can see the sport they [used to] love headed in a perilous direction while those charged with steering it are preoccupied with extorting cash from it. Sure our individual opinions may not be helpful, but I think few would disagree that radical - and I mean really radical - change needs to happen to protect the future of Formula One and capture the imagination of a younger generation.

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by codename_47

But we are fans and we enjoy the sport. If it becomes too much like hard work, we'll find something else to do with our sundays.)

Which is exactly what I've done.

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by davyboy

The reason many current fans are becoming increasingly vociferous is that they can see the sport they [used to] love headed in a perilous direction while those charged with steering it are preoccupied with extorting cash from it. Sure our individual opinions may not be helpful, but I think few would disagree that radical - and I mean really radical - change needs to happen to protect the future of Formula One and capture the imagination of a younger generation.

Exactly, people are in a fantasy world if they think it's all ok.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by davyboy

In fan terms, the sport's enemies are the silent ones. Those who vote with their feet and walk away as well as those that have no interest in following the sport in the first place.

I do not consider myself an enemy of the sport. I'm someone who left a sport I loved when it turned into something else. I would love to return, if it would stop being so much about "the show" and go back to the wonderful combination of battle of the nerds and battle of the drivers that served it very well for several decades.

[wnut]

Villeneuve slams Verstappen debut:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns28754.html

c.f. Newey's remarks

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by miatanut

I do not consider myself an enemy of the sport. I'm someone who left a sport I loved when it turned into something else. I would love to return, if it would stop being so much about "the show" and go back to the wonderful combination of battle of the nerds and battle of the drivers that served it very well for several decades.

You're right. 'Enemy' is not a good word in this context. I was using it in response to an earlier point where it was used. I ought to have chosen something better.

[Paradise City]

The racing connoisseur doesn't want to see pinball racing, he wants to see wins earned. The unwashed masses don't care; the unwashed masses is where the big cash is though so the sport sooner or later is going to flatter the the max. Well, yes, we have slap-bang and tickle racing but if this is caused by penelope pitstop gimmicks how can one have confidence that the eventual winner is really the winner; that he earned that win, was not gifted it - or in the case that if success ballast was ever introduced, how worthy is a win if the winner competitors are waddling around the track with twenty tonnes of success weight? How authentic is that?

I think F1 is somewhat compromised - particularly with my own bugbear DRS - but I don't think it's at the stage that it's pinball racing - yet - but I think that it's the inevitable direction it's heading, particularly as the sport seeks to flatter the blithering masses.

I give commentary from the heart and I will continue to give commentary from the heart. Whether it 'sounds negative/positive or hurts 'feelings' or garbage like that doesn't interest me. What's important is honesty, sincerity and truth.

[wolfhound]

Great race today with action all the way down the field. If ever there was proof needed there is very little wrong the on track action this season. Mind you if there is dull race at Spa then there is definitely something wrong. If those in F1 are worried about TV rating etc. I think they do not need to look at what is happrning on track but how they get and keep fans. It is also about how easy it is for people to access the sport and what media they and how the sport engages with its fans.

[Andrew2001]

The sport is over regulated, and has lost all sense of direction. It doesn't know where it is heading, or what it wants to be anymore.
The cars are becoming more and more dumbed down, less and less appealing. Before you know it, there will be 13 year olds with Playstation experience and rich parents paying them for an F1 drive.

I am just answering the question in this thread, but F1 is utterly ruined with this latest round of regulatory changes.
It is utter ********.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Andrew2001

The sport is over regulated, and has lost all sense of direction. It doesn't know where it is heading, or what it wants to be anymore.
The cars are becoming more and more dumbed down, less and less appealing. Before you know it, there will be 13 year olds with Playstation experience and rich parents paying them for an F1 drive.

I am just answering the question in this thread, but F1 is utterly ruined with this latest round of regulatory changes.
It is utter ********.

However the racing is first class....

[Knowlesy]

It was wonderful to see the cars twitching and bucking through Pouhon and Eau Rouge.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

However the racing is first class....

On occasion it can be. However the winner [even the podium] is still a foregone conclusion.

[OZ_HCR32]

With more Toto/Lauda management and less Horner. More Dan, Kimi and Alonso style racing drivers with a distinct personalities who are good punters who give other drivers room to race wheel to wheel....F1 will be in good shape.

I frankly don't understand all the doom and gloom noise. I chose to go to Le Mans this year rather than my flay away F1 race mainly due to cost. The fact that I am wearing 2.5k on an airline ticket to get there I was up for a change and more of the spectacle.

So on that line of thinking F1 really needs to look at how it distributes its income. Circuits need a bigger cut, teams need a bigger cut. FOM whilst pulling it all together is the middle man and boggles me how they can justify their slice of the pie.

Add to that, a race weekend simply needs more of the spectacle. Bring back 3rd cars for Jr drivers and between P3 and Quali let them have a quali like shootout for constructor points. Will help those in the seats enjoy action. Will encourage teams to give seat time to talented young guys not cashed up tools etc etc

Lastly, FOM give me a job...I would run circles around their current bunch of bean counters as I am actually a motorsport nut first and decisions are not based around economics first

[OZ_HCR32]

I will add...Bernie stop being a greedy ******* and bring back Kanga TV/Fanvision!

Attending races and being told you need to use a mobile phone app that chews through your entire battery before half the race is done...doesnt give you access to commentary or on board footage...basically sitting in your expensive seat with no live timing ... took away a very good aspect of live F1 spectating. The fact that you saw and knew everything about the race as though you were at home. This year, I have had to go home and watch recorded races to understand fully what I had just watched live ;(

...now where is my FOM job?

[Casper]

I had a look at the Indy Car website and if that is any indication of how they approach and manage things I think Indy Cars have a bright future. F1 is living in the early twentieth century in comparison and it is very refreshing to see a genuine attempt being made to entertain rather than just grab money, the latter seemingly being all F1 is interested in.

[Mike E]

Is this even a question?

Quick survey, who has been to a GP this year and what did you pay?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115879