Mercedes second seat? - Page 12

**chunterer** · 13 Dec 2016, 12:06 (Ref:3695779)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

DTM is where single seater drivers go when they don't have the cash to carry on in single seaters - get paid to drive and there's the chance of a jump elsewhere in a manufacturers racing portfolio. If you don't have big backers there are worse options than DTM.

It's kind of replaced Japanese F3000/Nippon in that respect, although the latter is steadily returning to prominence as this sort of option.

Akrapovic · 13 Dec 2016, 12:35 (Ref:3695791)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

DTM is where single seater drivers go when they don't have the cash to carry on in single seaters - get paid to drive and there's the chance of a jump elsewhere in a manufacturers racing portfolio. If you don't have big backers there are worse options than DTM.

Not sure I agree. DTM has long been used as a dumping ground by Mercedes for all of the talent they don't want to use, but don't want anyone else to have. Both Mercedes and McLaren (in the McMerc days) were guilty of it. Hiring drivers like Alonso and Montoya from outside of their ranks, whilst new careers were left in DTM hoping for a chance. Even when a race seat came up when Montoya was injured, de la Rosa was used.

Paffet is the best example. Rosenqvist is a very recent example of a Mercedes development drivers they have no intention of maturing. Jamie Green should've gotten his F1 chance, got passed over and dropped into DTM and forgotten about. di Resta was another put there, and he only managed to get out by getting himself the Force India drive.

DTM is where young drivers go to be forgotten about. Usually with some money from Mercedes.

The amount of good GP3/GP2 drivers now giving Blancpain and ELMS a go is quite high. Manor and SMP running cars their helps.

**BertMk2** · 13 Dec 2016, 12:42 (Ref:3695796)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Not sure I agree. DTM has long been used as a dumping ground by Mercedes for all of the talent they don't want to use, but don't want anyone else to have. Both Mercedes and McLaren (in the McMerc days) were guilty of it. Hiring drivers like Alonso and Montoya from outside of their ranks, whilst new careers were left in DTM hoping for a chance. Even when a race seat came up when Montoya was injured, de la Rosa was used.

Paffet is the best example. Rosenqvist is a very recent example of a Mercedes development drivers they have no intention of maturing. Jamie Green should've gotten his F1 chance, got passed over and dropped into DTM and forgotten about. di Resta was another put there, and he only managed to get out by getting himself the Force India drive.

DTM is where young drivers go to be forgotten about. Usually with some money from Mercedes.

The amount of good GP3/GP2 drivers now giving Blancpain and ELMS a go is quite high too. Manor and SMP running cars their helps.

There are lots of drivers that deserve/deserved a shot at F1 but never got it - for a lot of those drivers a paid factory drive in the DTM is a good option. Paffet, Green and Di Resta didn't have the cash for an F1 drive, their carreers stalled anyway - Di Resta got the shot at Force India thanks to the Mercedes links, that drive wasn't based purely on merit.

Teams with young driver programs inevitably end up with more drivers than they can plug into F1 seats - so they either drop them or find them another home in the company motorsport hierarchy. Red Bull are another example of this - how many drivers do they have in their young driver program? How many haven't made it to F1? They've ended up all over the place (including the DTM).

BSchneiderFan · 13 Dec 2016, 14:17 (Ref:3695823)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...aff-he-staying

Can we now rule out the Spaniard, please?

Richard C · 13 Dec 2016, 14:56 (Ref:3695834)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Sorry could you repeat that please Richard ?

I am happy to comply, but I am not sure exactly what you are asking for! I assume you are not asking for a direct repost of my prior post.

Did you agree, disagree? Am I missing clarity on a point? Did I do something wrong?

Richard

JeremySmith · 13 Dec 2016, 15:00 (Ref:3695836)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I am happy to comply, but I am not sure exactly what you are asking for! I assume you are not asking for a direct repost of my prior post.

Did you agree, disagree? Am I missing clarity on a point? Did I do something wrong?

Richard

No not at all Richard, I read your post with interest .. I am as curious as we all are to see what Mercedes decide to do with their spare seat, they don't have many choices at this point..

Cynic · 13 Dec 2016, 15:05 (Ref:3695838)

Not sure if it was in this thread or one of the others, but someone did suggest that Toto could always put the missus in for a couple of races if Merc get really stuck. If they're not prepared to put PW in the seat that might be the only option they have left!

Richard C · 13 Dec 2016, 15:18 (Ref:3695844)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

No not at all Richard, I read your post with interest .. I am as curious as we all are to see what Mercedes decide to do with their spare seat, they don't have many choices at this point..

Thank you.

I try to add to the quality of the conversation and remove as much personal bias as I can. Sometimes I fail and get caught up in my own emotions (passion for the topic). I have been in a bit of a "contrarian" mood recently which actually hasn't set well with me because it manifests as me posting rebuttals to frequent and respected posters. My biggest fear is appearing to attack (or accidently actually attacking) the poster vs. their post. At the same time, I try to be willing to admit when I am wrong.

Richard

JeremySmith · 13 Dec 2016, 15:18 (Ref:3695845)

Cynic I think that's highly unlikely, I feel that Pascal Wehrlein is the clear choice ..

JeremySmith · 13 Dec 2016, 15:26 (Ref:3695846)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Thank you.

I try to add to the quality of the conversation and remove as much personal bias as I can. Sometimes I fail and get caught up in my own emotions (passion for the topic). I have been in a bit of a "contrarian" mood recently which actually hasn't set well with me because it manifests as me posting rebuttals to frequent and respected posters. My biggest fear is appearing to attack (or accidently actually attacking) the poster vs. their post. At the same time, I try to be willing to admit when I am wrong.

Richard

Richard we encourage our members to post as much as they wish on any given subject, with respect to other posters during the discussion ..
If one looks at our conversation taking place in a large room with several
small groups then it's easy to imagine not wanting to offend a fellow poster ..
Merry Christmas to you !!

chillibowl · 13 Dec 2016, 15:40 (Ref:3695849)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...aff-he-staying

Can we now rule out the Spaniard, please?

with a bit of sadness, i think we have to at this point.

although i suspect we will back at it once the discussion turns to where Alonso will land in 2018.

**bella** · 13 Dec 2016, 15:44 (Ref:3695850)

alonso to mercedes is the new webber to renault?

chillibowl · 13 Dec 2016, 15:55 (Ref:3695853)

haha totally!

Akrapovic · 13 Dec 2016, 16:22 (Ref:3695869)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Red Bull are another example of this - how many drivers do they have in their young driver program? How many haven't made it to F1? They've ended up all over the place (including the DTM).

Red Bull Development Drivers that managed to get a Red Bull/STR F1 seat (since 2005):
Vettel
Ricciardo
Kyvat
Verstappen
Liuzzi
Speed
Alguersuari
Buemi
Vergne
Sainz Jr

McLaren/Mercedes development drivers that managed to get a McLaren/Mercedes seat (since 1996):
Hamilton
Magnussen
Vandoorne

That's actually not too bad for Red Bull. It's pretty crap for McMerc as I said.

The second Mercedes seat should go to a youngster. Not an already established driver. Let's get some new talent into a top seat, rather than drop them into a Sauber and then drop them because they weren't World Champion by Silverstone.

S griffin · 13 Dec 2016, 16:30 (Ref:3695873)

Imagine if Sainz got the seat, him vs Max in different cars fighting for the win

BSchneiderFan · 13 Dec 2016, 17:46 (Ref:3695902)

I still think it will be Wehrlein. But I've probably said that often enough now, so I'll stop. Probably.

JeremySmith · 13 Dec 2016, 20:12 (Ref:3695934)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

I still think it will be Wehrlein. But I've probably said that often enough now, so I'll stop. Probably.

I think your right ...

F1Pete · 13 Dec 2016, 20:50 (Ref:3695947)

I think your wrong.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**GTRMagic** · 13 Dec 2016, 22:13 (Ref:3695963)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynic

Not sure if it was in this thread or one of the others, but someone did suggest that Toto could always put the missus in for a couple of races if Merc get really stuck. If they're not prepared to put PW in the seat that might be the only option they have left!

Isn't Susie Woolf pregnant?

**GTRMagic** · 13 Dec 2016, 22:14 (Ref:3695964)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

alonso to mercedes is the new webber to renault?

Image courtesy of andyblackmoredesign.com

**GTRMagic** · 13 Dec 2016, 22:15 (Ref:3695965)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

Imagine if Sainz got the seat, him vs Max in different cars fighting for the win

It would be awesome!

JABWOA · 13 Dec 2016, 22:50 (Ref:3695982)

Toto has 100 days to convince Williams to release Bottas (but I do wish they'd go with Sainz.) This means however, they have no rush to fill the seat - PW is the backup (the realistic choice.) Sorry Pascal, you're going to get the best car on grid by being recognized as being sloppy 2nds.

Hawkwood · 13 Dec 2016, 22:55 (Ref:3695989)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

The second Mercedes seat should go to a youngster. Not an already established driver. Let's get some new talent into a top seat, rather than drop them into a Sauber and then drop them because they weren't World Champion by Silverstone.

But Bottas would be a new talent in a top seat, seeing as he's not had a top seat before.
Yeah, I know that's not what you meant

But what are established drivers at smaller teams supposed to do if not aim for the big seats when they become free?

If not for promotions for deserving drivers all they are doing is literally taking up space until they retire.
And then people complain they've been in F1 for XX years and not achieved anything, and should make way for young blood .
All a vicious circle, but that's because I'm tired and grumpy.

ASCII Man · 14 Dec 2016, 00:21 (Ref:3695999)

It's annoying to see all these people with these raging hardons for ever younger drivers, it's almost like having experience is more of a curse than a blessing nowadays.
I don't know where this sudden aversion for experience has come from, but the sport is most certainly all the poorer for it, with the exception of Verstappen, ofcourse.

Akrapovic · 14 Dec 2016, 07:57 (Ref:3696042)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

But Bottas would be a new talent in a top seat, seeing as he's not had a top seat before.
Yeah, I know that's not what you meant

But what are established drivers at smaller teams supposed to do if not aim for the big seats when they become free?

You're completely right. I'm meaning more drivers like Vettel, Alonso and Kimi. Lets get some of the promising talent in there, not recycling the old guys round every so often.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

It's annoying to see all these people with these raging hardons for ever younger drivers, it's almost like having experience is more of a curse than a blessing nowadays.
I don't know where this sudden aversion for experience has come from, but the sport is most certainly all the poorer for it, with the exception of Verstappen, ofcourse.

I'm not saying get rid of experienced drivers, or bring in "ever younger drivers". I'm saying that the teams should start using the drivers they put into their young driver programs, rather than throwing them into touring cars so nobody else can have them, and then choosing Alonso and co over them.

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