Waste of Space

[Steve Wilkinson]

When you enter a specific forum why do the ANNOUNCEMENTS take up so much room at the head of the page? It seems disproportionate to their importance and relevance. I can see why they are there and understand why, it is just that they do waste a heck of a lot of space and I get fed up having to page past them on every sub-forum.

[EvilPumpkin]

they take up as much space as there are announcements - I've tried it in a few different layouts and I don't think it's excessive. Right now we have 3 - 2 requesting assistance for thefts and one promoting a charitable auction for a rider that was tragically killed earlier this year, leaving behind a wife and 3 young children.

What skin are you using? (if you're not sure, look at the very bottom left hand corner of your screen - you should see a drop down menu which will tell you what you're currently using).

[MagnetON]

Just doing some math and on my screen, with adverts turned off the F1 forum main page uses about 2300 pixels vertically. The global Announcements take up about 120 pixels. So that's about 5% of the total space. Hardly excessive, only 20% larger than the average Avatar and smaller than most single posts.

[Matski]

Hmm, I just noticed that in the F1 forum I have to scroll down before I can see any threads at all! My screen resolution is 1280×960.

I suppose I could always fork out to 'remove the adverts', but hey, where's the fun in that.

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by Matski

Hmm, I just noticed that in the F1 forum I have to scroll down before I can see any threads at all! My screen resolution is 1280×960.

Rotate your screen through 90 degrees and view us at 960x1280

Originally Posted by Matski

I suppose I could always fork out to 'remove the adverts', but hey, where's the fun in that.

Try it for 2 weeks for only £1 - http://tentenths.com/forum/payments.php

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by Matski

I suppose I could always fork out to 'remove the adverts', but hey, where's the fun in that.

Until recently, I paid up and also viewed the ads (that option is available) as I felt it would give ten-tenths just that little bit more revenue.

It's the fact of life these days that every cent/pence per visitor helps. Running this place would not be cheap on just hosting costs alone, let alone time and personal effort/disruption.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by NickoGP

Until recently, I paid up and also viewed the ads (that option is available) as I felt it would give ten-tenths just that little bit more revenue.

It's the fact of life these days that every cent/pence per visitor helps. Running this place would not be cheap on just hosting costs alone, let alone time and personal effort/disruption.

Yeah, don't get me wrong. In this instance I don't begrudge 10/10's for asking...

However,

As a web designer (a lazy part-time one) I do know what goes into a site like this. I know what I charge for doing stuff, and I know what I pay to have stuff done. Therefore, I also know how easy it is and how overpriced web design is. Based on that I choose to ignore the begging request under the banners (we're gonna show you adverts unless you pay us!), and usually I ignore it as easily as the adverts themselves. It only cropped up once someone else mentioned how much space stuff takes up.

On the plus side, the adverts ad a little colour to the forum. #E7E9F7, #D1D4E0, #D1D4E0 and #FFFFFF gets a bit samey after a while.

All that said, keep up the good work guys, it is a good website and it is well maintained - it was only finding this place the meant I didn't have to go and start up my own motorsport related website (actually I had planned on taking over racing circuits.net, but never got round to 'bidding').


Edited to pint out I continue using ten tenths - liquid because I like it to fill the width 100%

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by Matski

Yeah, don't get me wrong. In this instance I don't begrudge 10/10's for asking...

However,

As a web designer (a lazy part-time one) I do know what goes into a site like this. I know what I charge for doing stuff, and I know what I pay to have stuff done. Therefore, I also know how easy it is and how overpriced web design is. Based on that I choose to ignore the begging request under the banners (we're gonna show you adverts unless you pay us!), and usually I ignore it as easily as the adverts themselves. It only cropped up once someone else mentioned how much space stuff takes up.

As a web designer, do you get free internet infrastructure (servers etc.) and free bandwidth?

Oh and free software as well presumably - no licences or anything like that?

If so, can you tell us where you get them because the rest of us have to pay for these items.

Originally Posted by Matski

On the plus side, the adverts ad a little colour to the forum. #E7E9F7, #D1D4E0, #D1D4E0 and #FFFFFF gets a bit samey after a while.

Try a different forum skin then.

Originally Posted by Matski

All that said, keep up the good work guys, it is a good website and it is well maintained - it was only finding this place the meant I didn't have to go and start up my own motorsport related website (actually I had planned on taking over racing circuits.net, but never got round to 'bidding').

Actually maybe you should. You'll soon get a reality check as to what's involved if you actually have to do it. I always find it highly entertaining to visit the sites that have set up because people decided they didn't like this one for whatever reason - only to find that they now have exactly the same problems and they're not operating on even close to the scale of this site.

There's a vast difference between designing a web site and maintaining a dynamic forum with the kind of traffic that this one runs.

I don't have a problem with you being of the opinion that this site costs us nothing - everyone is entitled to an opinion, regardless of how that fits in with the actual facts of the matter - but please don't try to set yourself up as an expert and tell people that this site costs nothing.

I pay for it and I know precisely how much it costs and where those costs come from and the advertising revenue barely covers it - and some months it doesn't.

[Matski]

Firstly, I'm not setting myself up as an expert or telling people it costs nothing. If I have offended you or called in to question your motives, I'm sorry and that was not my intention.

I have felt the need to explain what I said in greater detail, but as I suspect most people don't give a toss about what I get up to in the evenings I have responded using the medium of PM.



On a lighter note related to the original post, I knew a company that had to pay 50p everytime somebody clicked on there banner. The company that sold him the advertising used to phone around touting for business, using his banner as an example - anyone they phoned that gave them the time of day was directed to click on that banner -- it would have cost him a fortune had he not had the number of click throughs capped, all that happened was nobody of any use ever saw his banner ------ The lesson there is never click on somebodies banner unless you are genuinely interested, otherwise you are just costing them money.

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by Matski

The lesson there is never click on somebodies banner unless you are genuinely interested, otherwise you are just costing them money.

All the graphic banners on Ten-Tenths are charged at a fixed monthly rate. So feel free to click on any you think may be of interest, it doesn't cost the advertisers anything extra and who knows, you might find something of interest.

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by Matski

Firstly, I'm not setting myself up as an expert or telling people it costs nothing. If I have offended you or called in to question your motives, I'm sorry and that was not my intention.

I have felt the need to explain what I said in greater detail, but as I suspect most people don't give a toss about what I get up to in the evenings I have responded using the medium of PM.

Actually you did set yourself up as an expert. You did tell people that it costs next to nothing and I'm very offended at being referred to as a "beggar" and then by implication some kind of money grubbing fraud trying to generate revenue for a site that, according to you, is costing me nothing.

Your apology is meaningless as you haven't actually retracted anything you've said - in fact, you've then gone on to accuse us of trying to cheat our advertisers.

Tell me, what's next? So far we have begging and fraud. What other crimes would you like to implicate us in in your role as "web expert"?

[Matski]

Errr... ooooookay,

I didn't see fit to retract anything I said in order to validate my apology, as you seem to be re-acting to things I didn't actually say. Granted I used the word "Begging" (to ask for money?), but fraud? No! cheat? No! Costs Nothing? No?

Anyway....

Feel free to delete my user account (block my IP too?) I do not come here for the community - I come for information, and I severley doubt that there is any information here that is not available anywhere else on the web.

Matski, signing out, 2006. Priaulx for WTCC '07 Champion

[rocketracer]

Originally Posted by Matski

As a web designer (a lazy part-time one) I do know what goes into a site like this. I know what I charge for doing stuff, and I know what I pay to have stuff done. Therefore, I also know how easy it is and how overpriced web design is.

I dont think i've read a more arrogant or offensive little rant than the one above. I feel offended for you guys Evilpumpkin and MagnetOn, because, in my short time, i love and wholly appreciate the magnificent and unique communitiy you've created on here.

it's not too much to ask that when you come into someone's house (in which they do a stunning job of keeping thousands (millions?) of we, the motorsport public, happy), that you show respects for the dedicated few who keep it running (And free to us the motorsport fan no less!)...

Everything's always easy until you actually do it and manage it and find out about all the little hidden costs and time burdens that you cant foresee before you actually start doing the job.

As a web designer, i fully appreciate the massive task at hand and the massive dedication it takes to keep a site like this running as well as you've succeeded in doing. so just wanted to shout out my appreciation.

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by rocketracer

As a web designer, i fully appreciate the massive task at hand and the massive dedication it takes to keep a site like this running as well as you've succeeded in doing. so just wanted to shout out my appreciation.

Thank you for the support, much appreciated.

[muggle not]

Keep up the good work EP and MagnetOn. This is a very good site and I for one appreciate the work that y'all have done.

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by Matski

Matski, signing out, 2006. Priaulx for WTCC '07 Champion

It's times like this I wish we could put sounds on posts. I'd be playing the theme tune from Grandstand.

amazing how someone is quite happy to come here and throw around insults and accusations but disappears in a cloud of smoke when they're asked to back their claims up.

Thanks for the support folks. This site exists because of the many many people that have put so much hard work into it over the years - don't forget, we only took over 2 years ago!

We have a wonderful hardworking volunteer staff that are responsible for keeping this community the nice place it is to be.

But it's very important that everyone be aware of the following:

1. This site DOES cost a fair bit of money to run - we've largely got it to the point now where it breaks even most months and any reserves we get from advertising go back into either promotional items for the site, or simply into motorsport in some way.
2. Tenths is wholly supported by advertising revenue (and occasionally shored up by personal funds when this doesn't match up!).
3. The site is not - and has NEVER - been charged for any of the work put into it by anyone on staff. Specifically not by Grant, who does the vast majority of the site design and supplies all of the technical expertise that keeps it online. And despite what some people may think, it is most certainly not easy, even when you have the level of technical expertise that he has.

Many thanks, as always, for the support

[Chatters]

Ah... MagnetON and EP, the only reason I keep coming back to this site is to watch you guys serve offensive little so-and-so's.

Game, Set, Match to Ten-Tenths!