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Old 10 Oct 2017, 11:56 (Ref:3773390)   #1
Peter Mallett
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Important EU Consultation Re Insurances

We've discussed this before but I received the following from Motor Racing Legends. Anyone with an interest in Motorsport in the UK and EU may be wise to submit their thoughts. The message is self explanatory.

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Originally Posted by Motor Racing Legends
Urgent Action Required
Help save our Sport from EU directive
There is a truly serious threat to our sport looming out of the EU very soon – that will result in all forms of motorsport in Europe being forced to shut down. This threat is very real and is no joke. It is imperative that we all respond to the EU Survey on this issue to make our views known. The deadline for submissions is October 20th. Chris Aylett of the MIA has put together an extremely useful guide explaining how to respond, exactly what to say, and which sections to ignore. It takes less than 10 minutes to complete if you follow the MIA guidance.

If you are a company active in motor sport, please amend the figures for staff etc at the relevant point. If you are an individual, I suggest you just substitute ‘we’ for ‘I’.

It is vital that we all respond to this survey right away.

Here is the message from Chris Aylett, Chief Executive of the Motorsport Industry Association:

Subject: URGENT ACTION - to save motorsport in all EU Member States your personal action is needed before October 20th - THIS IS A GENUINE THREAT
Importance: High

Dear Motorsport friend and colleague,

I do not apologise for the dramatic title to this message as our industry and sport face a serious, immediate problem which you can help resolve.

We have until October 20th to respond to this important EC consultation, details of which are attached - if we fail to secure the amendment we seek then the likely outcome is that all motorsport activity, in every EU Member State, will cease.

All involved in the business and organisation of European motorsport need to act NOW to overcome this genuine threat to our own future and that of our employees and sport, from the unintended consequences of action taken by the European Commission (EC).

The Motorsport Industry Association (MIA), along with others including the UK Department for Transport, has been fighting to resolve this issue for more than two years, on behalf of our members and the wider EU motorsport community. Now, with your personal leadership and action, it is possible for us to resolve this.

In simple terms, the EC plans to issue a new Motor Insurance Directive, as a result of which all EU Member States must put into their National Law compulsory and unlimited third-party liability insurance to cover personal injury between motorsport competitors and car-to-car damage during any competition – from Formula One, Moto GP, World Rally to karting, historic and grass roots, whether regulated by the FIA or FIM or not.

However such widespread unlimited new insurance is not currently and, we understand, will not in the future be available - so motorsport will be unable to continue anywhere in the EU.

Please respond BY OCTOBER 20th to the EC Review Consultation - https://ec.europa.eu/info/consultati...r-insurance_en by using the simple ‘MIA Response Guidelines’ which can be downloaded here. This will take LESS THAN TEN MINUTES – a short time commitment to keep motorsport alive, and the jobs it supports, in place.

It is most important that you estimate, if motorsport were to cease, how many jobs will be lost directly from your organisation and indirectly by your suppliers or the sport, as this significant economic impact will influence the European Commission.

We really must work together to make the European Commission fully aware of the economic importance of motorsport and the employment which our sport and industry provides across the European Union. Please forward this email to fellow drivers, friends, car preparers and other motorsport contacts.

If you have any questions or comments then please email me and I will respond immediately as we must meet the deadline of October 20th.

Thank you most sincerely – your immediate help is invaluable and much appreciated

Best regards

Chris
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 12:35 (Ref:3773399)   #2
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
If you look at it, this is a very broad document covering insurance of all types and kinds.

And to be honest, what is the likelihood of this affecting the UK post Brexit?

It would perhaps affect people competing abroad obviously.
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 12:41 (Ref:3773401)   #3
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Just because we are leaving the EU doesn't mean things won't be harmonised, although this may be something that doesn't get harmonised.
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 12:45 (Ref:3773403)   #4
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Chunder, we haven't actually left the EU yet, and this directive will be imposed before we do. Chris Aylett isn't one for scaremongering, and as my livelihood comes 100% from motor sport I really need to get this stopped. so wish me luck, I'm going in!
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 12:49 (Ref:3773405)   #5
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Agreed, apparently it was something to do with a guy in a tractor knocking down a ladder! And Mr Vnuk tried to sue the tractor driver, he was obviously not insured, and here we are. All powered vehicles might need insuring.

For those that do now know, and please correct me if I am wrong, this will possibly mean it would be law to insure any vehicle that is not already insured for road use.

Golf trollies, go karts, any race car in ANY category either MSA or not, so bangers, autograss etc. Any off road vehicles quad, bike.

Imagine the costs, imagine the impact on ALL motorsport throughout the UK.

So follow Peter's link and sign (not all of it as it is lengthy), especially if you are a competitor or directly involved in industry related to motorsport.
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 13:39 (Ref:3773413)   #6
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Chunder, we haven't actually left the EU yet, and this directive will be imposed before we do. Chris Aylett isn't one for scaremongering, and as my livelihood comes 100% from motor sport I really need to get this stopped. so wish me luck, I'm going in!
Ab-SOLUTELY if that lot in Brussels can come up with any idea of how to stop/change/upset/ any free thinking individual from enjoying their selves
in an activity especially in one so classed as being ''Anti'' anyway the other lot in the House of Comedians are bound to endorse it whether we are in or out of Europe's Nasties Alliance.
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 14:45 (Ref:3773438)   #7
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Alternatively, someone could offer an insurance product that satisfies the regulations? If we put the numbers to one side for a minute - I have no idea what they are, incidentally - is it self-evident nonsense that we should be insured?
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 16:00 (Ref:3773451)   #8
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It is based on new DRAFT legislation that resulted in a case brought about by a guy in Slovenia who was knocked off a ladder by a guy in a tractor that was never used on the road, or that in Slovenia never needed to be insured.

The resultant case brought about this vnuk ruling.

Although whether it actually gets to be a rule is not necessarily the case.

But the basics are that ANY powered vehicle in ANY location has to be insured.

Whether it is used on the road or not.

That is as it stands in the state it has reached right now which is nowhere near law, but obviously insurance companies want it, as it makes them millions and allows them to then take claims from every single thing involved in powered motion be it electric wheelchair to a Top Fuel dragster if it runs over your foot in a paddock. Plus they can have policies on everything, and you can be sure pushbikes, horses will not be far behind if this goes through.

What effect this has on venues I am not sure. Might mean that like UK stage rallying, spectators will just be prevented from attending a lot of motorsport like bike enduro, motocross, anything where you can get close to a location. If this insurance based thing becomes law.

In the same way you could sue someone in a mobility scooter for running into you. Which seeing as how often in happens is a good thing. AS they can be horrendously badly driven and cause great damage. So you can see scope for why it is happening.

Long way off, but you can see why the pressure groups are being active around motorsport as most of that is uninsured.
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 18:12 (Ref:3773464)   #9
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I think you've glossed over the fact that it would have to be insurance for UNLIMITED damages, and no insurance company is prepared to pick up the risk. This is why Chris Aylett is particularly worried - because there will be NO product at ANY price to enable us to comply with the law.
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 18:19 (Ref:3773467)   #10
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one-two should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Do you work in insurance Midgetman?
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 19:29 (Ref:3773482)   #11
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1-2, in case you haven't read Chris Aylett's statement this is the important part:

"In simple terms, the EC plans to issue a new Motor Insurance Directive, as a result of which all EU Member States must put into their National Law compulsory and unlimited third-party liability insurance to cover personal injury between motorsport competitors and car-to-car damage during any competition from Formula One, Moto GP, World Rally to karting, historic and grass roots, whether regulated by the FIA or FIM or not.

However such widespread unlimited new insurance is not currently and, we understand, will not in the future be available - so motorsport will be unable to continue anywhere in the EU."
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Old 10 Oct 2017, 21:00 (Ref:3773495)   #12
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Do you work in insurance Midgetman?
What made you think that? Because I read (some of) the small print? No, I make my living 100% from motor sport, both as a supplier and a team operator.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
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Old 11 Oct 2017, 08:55 (Ref:3773596)   #13
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1-2, in case you haven't read Chris Aylett's statement this is the important part:

"In simple terms, the EC plans to issue a new Motor Insurance Directive, as a result of which all EU Member States must put into their National Law compulsory and unlimited third-party liability insurance to cover personal injury between motorsport competitors and car-to-car damage during any competition from Formula One, Moto GP, World Rally to karting, historic and grass roots, whether regulated by the FIA or FIM or not.

However such widespread unlimited new insurance is not currently and, we understand, will not in the future be available - so motorsport will be unable to continue anywhere in the EU."
It's only a consultation document, asking for input.
This is just a starting point with some suggestions for the areas it should cover.
It will be passed back and forth over many years with suggestions and amendments being made to it by the elected representatives (governments).
Any final directive will have to be approved by all member states and will include their changes before each country then incorporates it into their own laws (the EU do not make laws).
Given the effects on motorsport businesses throughout the EU that aspect will disappear.

They are clearly looking at the impact of so called driverless cars and the potential claims resulting from when they go wrong and there have been issues with un-registered vehicles (e.g. agricultural etc.) operating in public areas which need to be investigated.
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Old 11 Oct 2017, 09:50 (Ref:3773611)   #14
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Do you think they can make an insurance for car-to-car damages mandatory? Or is this the kind of thing people will fight about, forgetting the other rules?
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Old 11 Oct 2017, 10:09 (Ref:3773617)   #15
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It's only a consultation document, asking for input.
This is just a starting point with some suggestions for the areas it should cover.
It will be passed back and forth over many years with suggestions and amendments being made to it by the elected representatives (governments).
This is a little niaive if you will forgive me. This is as you say a consultation document, the "only" bit suggests that there is no intention to take it further unless there are compelling reasons. How about this? Green activists will be pleased to find any reason to stop, what they see as a waste of rescources at best, and an environmentally unfriendy pursuit at worst.

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Any final directive will have to be approved by all member states and will include their changes before each country then incorporates it into their own laws (the EU do not make laws).
Given the effects on motorsport businesses throughout the EU that aspect will disappear.
I'm not entirely sure where the majority approach to the introduction of a directive comes from, unless you believe that countries still have sovereignty over their laws. It certainly has not been applied to things such as light bulbs, vacuum cleaner power etc. What makes anyone think this would be different? Also the ECJ has ruled on a case which was then applied to the Dutch court rulings. Ergo the EU Commission is trying to standardise the approach and can do so by this directive.


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They are clearly looking at the impact of so called driverless cars and the potential claims resulting from when they go wrong and there have been issues with un-registered vehicles (e.g. agricultural etc.) operating in public areas which need to be investigated.
That may be so, but I'm afraid for all the reasons above and experience (most recently with a construction project), the EU will take the views of the various countries, then make up their minds for them.

This initiative is attempting to put some logic into what is obviously a case of "straight bananas".
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