A Wonderful Idea

[Valve Bounce]

I have a wonderful idea: why don't we ask Craig to establish a separate section/forum called AGGRO, where anyone who wishes to flame bait, abuse and insult each other (but no obsceneties please) can post their threads. Then we will have an outlet for all the guys here who just want to post pro and anti TGF stuff, Montoya, Eddie and Ralf whining stuff, and all the other slanging matches that keep creeping into the F1 Forum. Then when a thread gets really heated and abusive, admin can simply move that thread to the Aggro Forum, while the rest of the gang can debate F1 issues in the F1 Forum. Is this a good idea or is this a good idea. What do you guys think?

[riusnow]

That would keep the other threads 'clean', but unfortunately I think it would get out of hand. Besides this way everyone watches what they say and there is peace and harmony and love and blah, blah, blah.

[Wrex]

VB - What in the hell are you trying to say with this anti-TGF s***. Montoya is the second coming, Eddie should have been WDC, Rubins will not get Tarso's seat at Minardi. I think this is a bait thread.

Seriously VB, you could never keep them out. We have a seperate forum for those people already, Atlas.

[Peter Mallett]

UP YOURS!!!!!

Does that do it?

On a serious note. Please don't attack Atlas or other forums here. We really don't need a "I'm better than you" attitude.

Thanks
Pete.

[Wrex]

Sorry Peter, only joking about Atlas, I just could'nt think of another forum name (stupid brain) and I like the Atlas site.

But this site is better though

[R]

I'm not quite sure what you're saying, VB, if you're talking about threads like the "Monty vs. TGF" thread or the "TGF takes it back" thread, I must say I disagree with you. A discussion about who was at fault in that incident in the last race, or whether it was a racing incident, is bound to be coloured by each member's opinion of the drivers. If you adore TGF as a triple world champion who must be allowed to pass anyone at any time, you'll see Montoya's move as a "stupid" move. If you on the other hand think TGF is over-rated, and you simply love the fact that Montoya is not one least bit in awe of him, then you think it's great that someone is actually prepared to race with TGF for position when he tries to overtake. The way you view such incidents (any incidents really) on the track is bound to be coloured by your own personal opinions of the drivers. We couldn't have a discussion forum if we didn't disagree on these matters. I think the F1 forum would be pretty colourless if we couldn't discuss the pros and cons of TGF, Montoya, Irvine and Ralf (now there's someone who generates a lot of pros and cons, eh Steph, Dino, Moffat? ). Criticism against Jacques, on the other hand, I always think is completely uncalled for , and should definitely be moved to the AGGRO forum. So there.

Not that I don't see your point. I've been put off from visiting the F1 forum many times, due to posters who are just here to i.e. repeatedly say the same things in x number of posts, rude behaviour, and not least throwing around personal insults. It's a dilemma - on one hand we want an open forum welcoming new members, on the other we know that from time to time someone will come along who's not here in the same business as us, but rather just to be rude and abusive and create a bad atmosphere. I think the best way to deal with abusive posters is to ignore their postings, warn moderator if necessary, but not reply to such messages. If those that just come here to insult and abuse don't get any replies, they'll probably (hopefully anyway) be put off from posting here at all, and if this view of 10 Tenths could be "general knowledge" so to speak, among the abusers, that if you post an abusive message on 10 Tenths, you'll simply be ignored, then I think we will have come a long way.

[EERO]

I'm moving this thread to the Questions/Feedbck forum.

Sorry, Bouncey, but I just don't think it belongs here.

[Raoul Duke]

I completely agree with what R said.

My personal opinion of the F1 forum on Ten-Tenths, is that it's far more civilised then a good number of message forums I've been to in the past. But I also think that it has some way to go before it can reach the "friendly atmosphere" status that it seems to have the reputation of having. Because occasionally you still get your loudmouths who like to come here just to abuse people and belittle their opinions. I, for one, think that something should be done about these people. But I must say that after experiecences with another forum(just recently), I would still think that Ten-Tenths is a pretty good forum where things stay fairly civilised in comparison to other places.

My favourite website(which shall go unnamed) is a website where everyboy is respectful of one another regardless of their opinions, beliefs, etc. The people over there don't see much point in carrying out a "holier then thou" attitude if you don't share their opinions. And that's the main reason I like it so much.

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by EERO
I'm moving this thread to the Questions/Feedbck forum.

Sorry, Bouncey, but I just don't think it belongs here.

Well EERO, if you look at the posts above, you will note that they all have a little to do with the F1 forum. I have seen many threads in our F1 forum develop into slanging matches with flame baits thrown in for good measure (I am as guilty as others I admit) and I just thought if we had a page where everyone can get rid of their aggro and abuse each other, such posts can be kept out of the F1 forum. I had a good idea for this particular page: the ignore function will not work here, and the moderators are obliged to post flame baits to keep the arguments raging.
Most importantly, it will be a place where any rude threads can be moved to quickly and where the posters can continue to fight and abuse each other with impunity.
Basically, I suppose it is where the hotheads can go to let off some steam.
Raoul, maybe you can let me know by mail the name of the website you are talking about. Thanks.

[EERO]

Bouncey, I have to say that the idea doesn't interest me at all. Oh there are times that I'vereally wanted to let fly at someone for a rude or antagonistic comment, but I feel that for the most part, I have been able to decline the bait. (Even recently I got sucked in)

VB, if we truely are a "civilized" forum, there is NO place for any rude comments. I would guess that it might only be a matter of time before the tone of the so-called "Aggro" forum tainted the other froums. Yes we could move them, but I have little interest in playing Cop here and even less in fanning the flames of surlieness.

Bouncey, you have always seemed to rise aboive the bait and I admire your restraint and compassionate manner, but I really don't care to moderate a "Rude" forum.

[Raoul Duke]

Originally posted by Valve Bounce

Raoul, maybe you can let me know by mail the name of the website you are talking about. Thanks.

I sent you a private message giving you the adress of the website.

[TimD]

First of all, Raoul, I'm sorry the Formula 1 forum doesn't quite live up to its reputation in your eyes. I'll concede that it's something of a bear-pit at times, but it's by far the best I've found.

I'd suggest that the F1 department is not typical of the site as a whole anyway. I don't know that the followers of other styles of motorsport are quite as partisan, or maybe are more interested in the spectacle as a whole over any driver loyalty.

But driver loyalty is the reason why I would suggest that the Aggro Forum is a non-starter. The people who try to start those sorts of threads will not necessarily regard their viewpoint as extreme. If a person genuinely believes that driver X is the greatest thing since sliced bread, he or she will shout it from the rooftops, and will allow no criticism.

And they will only jib at having their posts placed in some percieved dumping ground for troublemakers.

As for the real troublemakers - they get dealt with soon enough.

Besides, as EERO said, I have no interest in moderating such a place.

[djb]

V.B. I am of the same opinion of the others voicing concerns about a change of "atmosphere" that introducing a "rude" section could bring about.

I chanced upon 10/10ths purely by chance, having had for all intents and purposes, no previous experience with any forums on the net. What appealled to me about this place, and still does, was the overall level of racing knowledge of the members(I'm always learning things here) AND perhaps more importantly, the lot of you that are really pretty well all friendly and polite
.
I just don't see the point of having a section where people do not have to be polite, as it goes against the spirit of the place, or as how I perceive it anyway. Hell, I don't have all that much time to browse around here anyway, and I as well have been put off by some of the recent stuff (my kids antagonize each other enough at home, and so have no urge to get involve here) so I think it would be a shame if an aggro section spilled over into the rest.

[Peter Mallett]

I once said that the main problem on the net was the lack of facial expression. With e mail there is a certain etiquette, however in a discussion forum, there appears to be no rules, therefore some people take advantage.

That's what our moderators are here to moderate.

No we don't need a "rat pit" or any other type of forum for hurling insults.

VB has raised a good point though and with the popularity of this forum increasing (quite rightly in my view) we moderators need to be alittle more vigilant.

[Diabando]

Sorry VB - but I dont think it is such a hot idea.

Firstly, although it is easy to place all online motorsport forums in the one "bunch", I consider each one on its own merits. As such, 10/10ths stands out as a mature, easy going, friendly motorsport site, which includes a forum section amongst its many attributes.

Secondly, had there been such a forum topic called "AGGRO" when I first came upon this site, I would have never signed up as a contributing member, and I am sure many good folk would feel the same way. I would have immediately viewed the 10/10ths forums section as immature.

We have some great moderators, and I am sure they will continue to do a good job. Leave it safely in their hands.

[Peter Mallett]

Although I've never visited, there used to be a forum called "Club Arse" for this sort of thing. Does it still exist?

[Neil C]

I disagree with you VB, but for a different reason. I think a certain amount of contentious dialogue is healthy (and interesting reading). If Orange and I get into a bit of a spitting match (see: f1 @ ovals thread), throwing the whole post into a flame pit does everyone a disservice. Orange and I will work out our differences.

Besides, wasn't there a poster recently who demanded his post be moved back into the F1 forum after a moderator moved it?

I trust the Moderators and Admins to continue to do the great job they have been doing under the current structure.

[Liz]

I agree that we don't need an "aggro" forum - the way people learn to behave themselves is by going too far, and being told by other people that they have gone too far. In other words, we all help each other to stay within the bounds of common decency. Tristan and I used to be at crossed swords all the time, but we settled the question in PMs and now have both agreed that whatever we say in the heat of the moment is not attacking the poster, however it sounds, but only the opinions of the poster (that is, if I say his opinions on TGF are rubbish, that is not meant to say that he is rubbish, only that I don't agree with him - and the same if he says I am talking through my hat.) If ill-mannered people only associate with ill-mannered people, the tide will never rise.

But of course that means that everyone has to be willing to accept criticism for his or her behaviour, if it is offered in the spirit of keeping the peace. And it also means that people have to realise that "You Are Stupid" is not an argument. It is an invitation to a fight. In fact, that's the whole crux of the matter - learning to distinguish between an argument and a fight.

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by Neil C


Besides, wasn't there a poster recently who demanded his post be moved back into the F1 forum after a moderator moved it?

Neil, This stupid poster was me, and I have since apologised privately for doing so, and I am ashamed that I put Craig into a difficult position. I never apologised in the forum only because I wanted to let the whole thing die down. It seems I am wrong, so I want to take this opportunity to apologise here to the administrators and to Craig specially for my childish behaviour. Sometimes, when our posts are moved and we don't understand why, we may get silly about it. That's what I did, and I am trully sorry.

And I am glad that there are so many still reading this thread. I hope it has made everyone think, even if they did not agree with what I propose. Right EERO?

[Neil C]

Good point VB. The whole reason I visit here is because it is thought provoking.

This thread has reminded me that it is just as important to be kind as it is to be right.

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by Neil C
Good point VB. The whole reason I visit here is because it is thought provoking.

This thread has reminded me that it is just as important to be kind as it is to be right.

And it is all about making friends also. I hope I have just made another friend with you, Neil.

[TimD]

Valve Bounce, I didn't know about what transpired behind the scenes a couple of months back.

All I can say is, it takes a person of large heart and humility to post what you did a couple of messages back. Thank you.

That's what I love about this place. It strives to ensure that there's at least one address on the net where there's room for civilised dialogue.

I understand better your reasons for the "Aggro Forum" suggestion, I think. As for me, it confirms my commitment to vigilance in the F1 forum, and also determines me to post even when I don't feel like stepping into the path of something large and heavy!

[Raoul Duke]

Originally posted by Liz
(that is, if I say his opinions on TGF are rubbish, that is not meant to say that he is rubbish, only that I don't agree with him - and the same if he says I am talking through my hat.)

I entirely disagree with that. I think it's just as wrong to belittle peoples opinions as it is to belittle people themselves. If someone called my opinions "rubbish" I would take it just as personally as if they called me "rubbish".
To say "I'm critisizing your opinions, not you" is just a petty excuse for someone to justify having an arrogant, pig-headed, "holier then thou" type of attitude that seems to make them think it's appropriate to make such comments. I don't mean to sound offensive. And I'm sorry if it seems that way. But I think it's only important to state my opinion on the matters

[Peter Mallett]

Oh, Oh, Raoul.

Run away!!!!!!!

[Valve Bounce]

Raoul, we are here to disagree with each other. That doesn't mean that we don't like the guy!! To say a person's opinions are rubbish might be going a little far with some people, but that is the way his opinions are interpreted. But that doesn't mean the guy is dumb!! The rule here is to attack the post, not the poster. We must keep our attacks impersonal - unless you are attacking AM of course, then all bets are off - go for it.