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4 Nov 2009, 19:03 (Ref:2575794) | #1 | ||
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Is the future bright for Formula one?
As i post this the first talk of the Renault team pulling out of Formula one are starting to stir and earlier today the Toyota team announced there withdrawal ,along with the BMW and Honda teams leaving in the last 12 months. Adding to this Bridgestone have joined the exodus and will not be supplying tyres for 2011. Now im no "glass half empty" sort of person but things are looking shakey on the good ship Ecclestone. With teams running to the four winds it will soon be a one make series , god forbid. Is the future looking good for this fantastic sport ?
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4 Nov 2009, 19:23 (Ref:2575806) | #2 | |
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Yes it is brighter for F1 than it has been for some time.
In spite of the economic recession the major teams and manufacturers expect to get things their own way to a degree and are always willing to spend 'over the top' for something they think will give them a competitive advantage. The teams that have left will leave a hole but it will be filled. The teams that fill the hole will be run by enthusiasts and motor racing people not executives, accountants and company lawyers.... There is now more chance of costs reducing than in any of the last 10 years of F1. The most pressing need is for a reasonable supply of engines. If Renault do pull out or access to the Toyota engine programme (Would they sell it?) would simply cement some things in place that will only help the sport in the future. A return to one or more manufacturers supplying tyres that the teams paid for would not necessarily be a bad thing. |
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4 Nov 2009, 19:29 (Ref:2575809) | #3 | |
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Mercedes supplying Brawn with engines is how it should be, I thought nothing less of Honda, then Renault, when they supplied Williams (my favourite team at the time) during the Mansell/Hill eras.
Ferrari apart, manufacturer's don't need full factory teams. |
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4 Nov 2009, 20:13 (Ref:2575838) | #4 | ||
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I think the trouble you're likely to hit is just having a couple of manufacturers with the rest being enthusiasts or what have you. It happened in Group C with Jaguar and Sauber-Mercedes, as admittedly, Nissan had rather limited success in Europe. That was then replaced by Peugeot and Toyota, who drove costs up so much for anyone else to compete that the series died.
What has kept McLaren-Mercedes and Ferrari back this season has been in no smal part that Brawn and Red Bull (not Toro Rosso though, it seems), have the best chassis designers on staff at present. Should that status quo change, the ball will be back in the courts of the factory teams again. I mean, honestly, Force India has Mercedes power, and STR have Ferrari lumps, but aside from a couple of bright spots, those two teams have been awful this season. And no, it doesn't sound like there will be any Toyota engines to be had. Especially not with their only customer, Williams, already announcing their switch to Cosworth. |
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4 Nov 2009, 20:58 (Ref:2575873) | #5 | ||
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to some extent im glad that the manu's are pulling out but im not so convinced that it will lead to a brighter future.
with BMW and Toyota gone, Flav exiled and Renault maybe soon to follow, Mclaren and Mercedes poised to split, Red Bull potentially without an engine partner, the strongest member of the FOTA will be Ferrari. now i love Ferrari, but a series dominated and controlled by one team is not what interests people. without the other manu's (or teams of sufficient size) to counter Ferrari's whims how far away are we from 3 to 4 Ferrari's on the grid or ultimately a spec Ferrari series? how far away are we from Ferrari saying they have no interest in sharing with teams they clearly have no respect for? perhaps a renewed Mclaren and Brawn- Mercedes team can provide the balance, but in the end the ball is in Ferrari's court. if they decide to take it home whats the point in anyone showing up? |
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4 Nov 2009, 22:07 (Ref:2575926) | #6 | ||
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I think it depends whether there are adequate opportunities for the new teams coming in (and, for that matter, the existing non-manufacturer teams apart from Brawn and Red Bull) to actually get some decent results. If the manufacturers start dropping out and the new teams struggle to get to the grid in Bahrain, and when they do they're painfully slow, it's going to make for pretty uninspiring viewing.
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4 Nov 2009, 22:19 (Ref:2575936) | #7 | ||
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Remember the thread I started a few months back entitled the British Formula 1 Championships? I hate to say it, but I told you so. Welcome to IRL style racing.
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5 Nov 2009, 16:26 (Ref:2576454) | #8 | ||
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I welcome the changes. It feels like the early '70's all over again. Ferrari, maybe Renault and a whole bunch of independant teams running Cosworths.
I don't hoenstly believe that we will see a complete replay of the era, but to my mind, that was the golden age of Formula 1 when RACING teams were lean and passionate and the Jet set hangers-on were at a minimum. Contraction of the bloat of Formula 1 will not necessarily mean worse racing or less competition. |
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5 Nov 2009, 16:52 (Ref:2576471) | #9 | ||
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I think things are looking good. What I'd really like to see is a relaxation of the rules regarding chassis design. That way we might get to see some innovative/wacky cars such as the 6 wheel Tyrell, twin chassis Lotus & Brabham fan car
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5 Nov 2009, 17:17 (Ref:2576486) | #10 | ||
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I think Formula One is about to shrink back to something like it was previously. I think there will be more bad news before Xmas on the team and sponsorship front so money is going to become very important. The problem F1 may have is that a smaller F1 may not have the appeal to sponsors and the media that one populated by international companies had. If this is the case then the new circuits will disappear as well leaving CVC with no chance of recovering their investment. I for one would like to see and F1 like we used to have but i think the road back there is full of pitfalls.
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5 Nov 2009, 17:20 (Ref:2576490) | #11 | ||
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nope
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5 Nov 2009, 23:19 (Ref:2576705) | #12 | ||
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We're bound to see more passion and enthusiasm from the new teams, but the gaps will be bigger throught the grid, at least for now. It's just hard to feel attached to manufacturer teams, especially those who came in with no racing background. I'm not going to miss Toyota, and I'm glad that their departure ironically means Sauber will be back to pretty much their old selves. I'm optimistic for the new era, the only real worry is that Kimi won't be there.
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6 Nov 2009, 11:27 (Ref:2576943) | #13 | ||
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So, Ferrari v Cosworth kitcars? WHOOPEE DO!
Now give 'em 3 litre capacity, 12K rpm limit and any shape of engine you like... The good old days! |
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Tim Yorath Ecurie Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch Fan of "the sacred monster Christophe Bouchut"... |
6 Nov 2009, 11:58 (Ref:2576963) | #14 | |
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No, just 3 litre and no pneumatic valve.
The RPM will be limited by the spring. |
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6 Nov 2009, 12:11 (Ref:2576967) | #15 | |
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6 Nov 2009, 12:46 (Ref:2576977) | #16 | |
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I think F1 will be fine and personally I rejoice in the return to Independent rather than Manufacturer teams. At the end of the day, why are the manufacturers there -for marketing and profit reasons, not for the love of the sport. It is the manufacturers who in some ways contributed to the spiralling costs of F1 by obscene amounts of spending to stay ahead of their opposition, not only on the track but in wider market of their road car divisions.
BMW and Toyota are good example here. BMW were on a constant upward curve. They got it wriong this year, it happens but their reaction? To withdraw. Toyota similarly, spent gazzillions with relatively little return. Toyota's philosophy contributed to their downfall. They tried to run their F1 team like their road car division. Horses for courses but they didn't appreciate this. The manufacturers are fickle who quit at the drop of a hat if it suits their marketing machine. Given some of the talent on the grid and coming to the grid in terms of drivers, it's a potential golden age. |
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6 Nov 2009, 13:11 (Ref:2576984) | #17 | ||
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They already did, which is why Renault introduced pneumatics, way back when.
I reckon Ferrari will do a Desmo, like Ducati, and do away with springs! |
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Tim Yorath Ecurie Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch Fan of "the sacred monster Christophe Bouchut"... |
6 Nov 2009, 13:22 (Ref:2576991) | #18 | ||
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6 Nov 2009, 13:56 (Ref:2577007) | #19 | ||
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Playing devil's advocate for a second, there has been some fantastic racing in every era. The truth is a lot, if not most 1960s F1 GPs were boring processions with massive field spreads. It certainly wasn't any better than today
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6 Nov 2009, 14:06 (Ref:2577009) | #20 | ||
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Quote:
Anyway, it's all nonesense really, because from now on, F1 engines will be pretty much spec affairs in order to keep down costs. The i.c. engine has been done-to-death in F1, and maybe that's why manufacturers are leaving. Mr Horner looks on the bright side of things. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80024 |
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6 Nov 2009, 18:39 (Ref:2577195) | #21 | ||
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I don't know how boring 1960s GPs were, I was too young at the time but there has been good and boring in every era. I remember the good old days as being the Cosworth DFV era; primarily the 1970s.
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7 Nov 2009, 00:54 (Ref:2577383) | #22 | |
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7 Nov 2009, 02:09 (Ref:2577406) | #23 | ||
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Listen, whatever....
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7 Nov 2009, 20:19 (Ref:2577794) | #24 | |
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Toyota are happy to stay with NASCAR, mainly because they think that if it's relevant to the fans, then it's relevant to them.
"White believes Toyota's pullout sends a message to every form of motorsports in the world, not only about controlling costs but also about keeping the sport relevant to the fans, an area where he reckons NASCAR has done a good job." http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80073 |
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7 Nov 2009, 21:15 (Ref:2577832) | #25 | ||
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White's got that right and what makes NASCAR relevant to the fans is brand loyalty. Not only are you a race fan but you are a Chevy fan because you drive a Chevy, or a Ford fan because you drive a Ford. You're best buddy will drive a Dodge and that sets up a friendly rivalry. It's good for the sport.
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