Lance Stroll to Williams F1?

[Mekola]

Canadian Nelsinho. Being Nelsinho his friend. Can't say it better.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

So I had to see exactly what Massa said. Here is the tweet in question...

https://twitter.com/MassaFelipe19/st...93717027790849

So, I agree about why even get involved? But Massa's version of not getting involved was to get involved by actively saying "no comment" and then leaving it up to his followers to determine what "no comment" means "as a comment".

I generally took it as... "I don't agree, but I am not going to go into details"

So while looking at the tweet... I got a real kick out of one of the responses which was a GIF that I take as commenting upon Stroll as both having been born with a silver spoon in his mouth, but maybe also his inability to find his own way. I really don't really have an issue with Stroll in general, but I just found it too funny to not share...





Richard

Thanks Richard.

Epic.


So Massa's actual comment was:

"better not to comment"


Given Williams got a restraining order against Jaques, I think Massa's approach is fully justified, why does he need this in his life?

http://iforsports.com/williams-impos...raining-order/

I think that S. Griffin's comment above about says it all:

"I think there would have been areas where he couldn’t have not learned from Massa, especially in debriefs. Learning from someone better often makes you better."

[bella]

Originally Posted by wnut

Why would Massa bother to get involved?

The next question would be, was it because the mentoring wasn't available, or somebody was arrogant and knew everything anyway?

2018 will be an interesting test for Stroll, we will see what his results without Massa look like.

a grown-up would have ignored it. the important people know the truth, whatever that may be, and that’s all that matters.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by bella

a grown-up would have ignored it. the important people know the truth, whatever that may be, and that’s all that matters.

I'm getting the impression you have a lesser opinion of massa than the general public. I am curious as to why. There has been something about him that has had me wonder if the general view of him as a great guy was a little off the mark. I don't want to bash him baselessly, but I was wondering if you could expand on your opinion of him as someone who I take it is involved in the sport and may have greater insight.

[S griffin]

Stroll is not a bad driver, but he seems to want things too much his own way and seems Williams are doing it for him, no doubt because he pays the bills, although his talent does need to be harnessed

[nobster]

Stroll needs to deliver this year, if not then he simply is not good enough

[steve_r]

On his day, Stroll was good. At the end of the season, the time when you would expect him to be at his best and most settled, he put in a couple of abysmal performances.

Back in the day, new drivers would be given the benefit of the doubt for the first season or two. However in recent seasons, we have had teenagers come in and smash it pretty much straight away, which kind of leaves us with high expectations of all new drivers.

I have already mentioned on here my disappointment of Williams lineup this year. Hopefully I am proved wrong.

Villeneuve seems to make a lot of derogatory comments about a lot of things. I have long since stopped giving credence to his opinion.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by wnut

The next question would be, was it because the mentoring wasn't available, or somebody was arrogant and knew everything anyway?

Now you are quite literally creating fictional scenarios to support a clickbait headline.

[BSchneiderFan]

I’m feeling particularly ornery, so I’ll get this off my chest. Villeneuve is a loudmouth with a failed career behind him (post-1997) and will say whatever will get him some reportage. He was good-ish, though a dozen drivers could have won the title in the 1997 Williams. Stroll is not terrible. He’s also probably good-ish, and is doing as well as half a dozen drivers could have done in the 2017 Williams. He certainly deserves a second year in F1, but I agree he needs to step it up a bit and show he’s proper F1 material. I think he might do so. My worry is that he’ll beat Sirotkin and people will say “Yeah, but Sirotkin’s rubbish”. There are too many people, including on this forum, for whom Stroll can’t win. It’s the part of fandom that really annoys me.

I’m done now.

[bella]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

I'm getting the impression you have a lesser opinion of massa than the general public. I am curious as to why. There has been something about him that has had me wonder if the general view of him as a great guy was a little off the mark. I don't want to bash him baselessly, but I was wondering if you could expand on your opinion of him as someone who I take it is involved in the sport and may have greater insight.

firstly, let me say i respect him and the fact that a lot of people who have worked with him think very highly of him speaks to how good he is. see also the standing ovation he got from the entire pitlane in brazil '16.
but i've always found that he does the wrong type of ~speaking out. he mouths off after an incident and never apologises for getting it wrong. this is a good example of that - he REALLY didn't need to say or do anything. and yet he did. in my opinion over the years he's cried wolf about so many incidents and issues that it makes him hard to believe. he seems to play on his holier than thou reputation a bit?

to put that into context i'm also not a fan of ricciardo - he's an inverse raikkonen. both him and massa come off a bit like they're acting in a reality show to me. on the other hand i don't mind lewis - perhaps because he's a lot more transparent. stroll seems a bit too assertive, but he's shown from his f3 exploits that he may be a bit arrogant but he also learns when he needs to.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Now you are quite literally creating fictional scenarios to support a clickbait headline.

it's definitely bordering on fanfiction

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by bella

firstly, let me say i respect him and the fact that a lot of people who have worked with him think very highly of him speaks to how good he is. see also the standing ovation he got from the entire pitlane in brazil '16.
but i've always found that he does the wrong type of ~speaking out. he mouths off after an incident and never apologises for getting it wrong. this is a good example of that - he REALLY didn't need to say or do anything. and yet he did. in my opinion over the years he's cried wolf about so many incidents and issues that it makes him hard to believe. he seems to play on his holier than thou reputation a bit?

to put that into context i'm also not a fan of ricciardo - he's an inverse raikkonen. both him and massa come off a bit like they're acting in a reality show to me. on the other hand i don't mind lewis - perhaps because he's a lot more transparent. stroll seems a bit too assertive, but he's shown from his f3 exploits that he may be a bit arrogant but he also learns when he needs to.


it's definitely bordering on fanfiction

That kind of jives with the impression I have gotten of him at times. He will point out in an interview things like making a great start or moving up through the field. But he also would say a pit stop mistake cost them time or something. Basically it came across as him pointing out his greatness while having no problem calling out his team for failures so it was clear it wasn't him responsible for the result if it was disappointing.

But like you, the respect he has in the paddock does say something to me. I can also see ricciardo being fake or something. Big reputation as super nice guy, but has said some negative things over the radio that came from nowhere. Also just gives off impression of someone who could cut someone down almost like a bully would but then smile and say he was joking. Except it isn't a joke to the target.

Anyway.... Enough psycho analyzing or whatever from this amateur :rotate.

[S griffin]

I haven't seen Ricciardo ever use dirty tactics. And also couldn't agree less with him being fake. He does it because he's a happy go lucky character who also is a serious driver

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I haven't seen Ricciardo ever use dirty tactics. And also couldn't agree less with him being fake. He does it because he's a happy go lucky character who also is a serious driver

The "sore loser" comment about verstappen (although in justified frustration), a few years ago at the U.S. gp, a comment over the radio about something good for someone (my guess/assumption was about rosberg) he said something like "great. Couldn't have happened to a better mate". Was a sarcastic tone. Like I said, it's an amateur analysis, and based off an impression I get from him. Yes, he is or comes across as a happy go lucky character. But like all f1 drivers, he's hyper competitive and that can easily show with a cutting or biting comment to the competition, even a teammate. Then a big smile and laugh as though it's a joke and he keeps his happy go lucky character up.

All that said, I pull for him because I have no actual proof he is anything but one of the nicer guys in f1 and also a great racer and entertaining.

I'll also stop this thread derailment now.

[bella]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I haven't seen Ricciardo ever use dirty tactics. And also couldn't agree less with him being fake. He does it because he's a happy go lucky character who also is a serious driver

the problem with fandom, especially with social media but also here to an extent, is that people get charicatured. in same cases they don’t help themselves (hi lewis), but it’s as if fans forget that people are more than one character trait, that say, being a funny guy doesn’t also preclude them from being a prat, or being a sporting hero means they can’t also kick puppies in their spare time. one flaw in a character and they’re problematic. no, they’re humans, they’re not fictional people from a book or badly written tv series. ok, kicking puppies IS pretty problematic. but you get the point.

you see that with stroll - firstly he’s an issue because money eased his way through the learning formulae. then he was an issue because he was too heavy handed on track and causing a lot of drama. then when that had gone away, he was irritating because he’d been able to buy f1 tracktime. it literally never ends.

and yet i can guarantee people won’t have an issue with norris, even though he has third parties running his social media, has been incredibly fortunate with tracktime but has had mclaren and most of the media creating him an identity.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by bella

and yet i can guarantee people won’t have an issue with norris, even though he has third parties running his social media, has been incredibly fortunate with tracktime but has had mclaren and most of the media creating him an identity.

I agree with pretty much everything you say, except this.

Norris will in all likelihood get a free pass from the English speaking press... mostly. And from most of the European press too, until such time as he does something a bit daft on track or manages to lose his temper after an incident. Then we'll see the Italian media, for one, start to crucify him. They'll turn the screws, slowly, inexorably, until that bleeds out onto social media into the fandom silos.

And if that doesn't happen, there'll be a growing cry on social media of "yeah, he's good but he's boring".

Damned if you do, etc!

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Back in the day, new drivers would be given the benefit of the doubt for the first season or two. However in recent seasons, we have had teenagers come in and smash it pretty much straight away, which kind of leaves us with high expectations of all new drivers.

this doesnt get mentioned enough imo.

Originally Posted by steve_r

Villeneuve seems to make a lot of derogatory comments about a lot of things. I have long since stopped giving credence to his opinion.

also this...former champ and he is entitled to his opinion and all that...but he is a commentator/pundit now so saying outrageous things makes for good click bait.

people filling the empty spaces for their own advancement.

anyways back to Stroll...cant help but feel the negative opinion/comments people have of him would be exactly the same even if he had come out and said that Massa was his mentor.

his future success would no longer be his own (due to money and and Massa's help) and his future failures would be a result of advancement through money and a lack of Massa to show him the way.

there was no 'right' answer he could have given to any question about mentorship.

damned if you do indeed.

[loon]

Did Brett Favre mentor Aaron Rodgers

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by wnut

Why would Massa bother to get involved?

If you hafta' ask, I don't think the answer will help you understand. Some don't think only of themselves.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Back in the day, new drivers would be given the benefit of the doubt for the first season or two. However in recent seasons, we have had teenagers come in and smash it pretty much straight away, which kind of leaves us with high expectations of all new drivers.
Villeneuve seems to make a lot of derogatory comments about a lot of things. I have long since stopped giving credence to his opinion.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by jimclark

If you hafta' ask, I don't think the answer will help you understand. Some don't think only of themselves.

Why would Massa get involved in the tit for tat argument about the level of mentoring and help that Stroll received during the 2017, not why would Massa mentor Stroll in the first place.

YOur remark is not relevant to my post.

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by wnut

Why would Massa get involved in the tit for tat argument about the level of mentoring and help that Stroll received during the 2017, not why would Massa mentor Stroll in the first place.

YOur remark is not relevant to my post.

Quite. I stand corrected. Accept my apology, please.
Too many have axes to grind about Lance and I jumped to that conclusion about your post. Again, 'sorry.

I think back to Jackie and Francois....good times.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by jimclark

Quite. I stand corrected. Accept my apology, please.
Too many have axes to grind about Lance and I jumped to that conclusion about your post. Again, 'sorry.

I think back to Jackie and Francois....good times.

No problem, its forgotten,

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Villeneuve seems to make a lot of derogatory comments about a lot of things. I have long since stopped giving credence to his opinion.

What’s his user name?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Adam43

What’s his user name?

"Rentagob" would be appropriate.

[djinvicta]

Sorry..I quite enjoy ex racers gobbing off about current drivers...
Sounds sometimes like severe sour grapes.
Wait till Massa starts..