Forsyth - BERNIE will decide in the next 30 days

[macdaddy]

"...When I take the kids to Cleveland and (Toronto) (some) year (soon) they will see and enjoy something I have grown to love."

My kidz are still too young. They'd go if Dora the Explora was there!

But that just 'bout sums up what I've been thinking, John. Myself? Nationality means nothing. Not until this year was my "favourite" driver Canadian. It's all about the product. Race fans are a unique bunch. You can be a fan of baseball, hockey, football, soccer, basketball, or all of the above, but with motorsport you either love it or hate it. It's a unique sport with unique fans. And I feel that, so long as CART can put on the best show, the sky's the limit. In recent years it's been the non-American drivers who have catipulted the sport to the levels it enjoyed. Names like Mansell, Villeneuve, Zanardi, Montoya. True race fans would rather watch the racing on the track than the names on the leaderboard.

Key ingredients to a successful series:

Firstly: No owners hell-bent on destroying the series. That situation has been rectified. That comes from the Greek word "rectum", which means "owners hell-bent on destroying the series".

Racing: CART's #1 for major-league open-wheel.

Drivers: Our talent is much better than expected this year. And it will improve next year. Two-fold.

Venues: Mexico (x2), Canada (x3), Australia, Brands, Germany, Cleveland, Fontana, LongBeach, Laguna, St.Petes, RoadAmerica, you get the point. I foresee Portugal and Brazil for 04, maybe even Spain, and then Belgium in 05. The schedule has room to expand, provided we have the...

Sponsors: This was supposed to be the year of mourning CART's death, no? Obviously Ford and Bridgestone. Lately PacifiCare, Bombardier... And we've only had one race. True, many teams need sponsors. But this will come. Trust me, this will come. Before the end of the season, every car will wear livery.

Manufacturers: Build it and they will come. Similar scenario to sponsors.

My opinion? CART has worked wonders in the last five months. Although the prospect of BE both intriques and frightens me at the same time, I think Pook has been doing just fine on his own. This year promises to be the most exciting in years, next season even better!

[Jay]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
Uhm.... Jay... Uh...

That's _Skip_ Barber, with power from Dodge, as in MOPAR, Dodge-Chrysler-Plymouth, as in Daimler-Benz's b*tch.

Used to be Barber-Saab.
.
.
Have you considered Star Mazda if you can't the money together for Atlantics?

Yes, I know all about Skip and his series. It produces great racing, does teach kids a lot about racecraft, but is also very politically driven with some drivers being given better equipment than others..sometimes on purpose. Which is why as long as their competive I don't consider the standings of too much importance. (apart from scholarship money)

Just checking out Star Mazda, it appears to be quite a bit lower than Atlantic. Besides, Atlantic has a well established reputation in the motorsports world. They just need to beef up their engines and lower costs.

[Lee Janotta]

Actually, the performance of the 2004 Star Mazda cars will be damn close to an Atlantics car, they've got almost as good a TV package, they run at ALMS events... And the racing is cheaper and more competitive.

And yeah, the Skip Barber series is a mess... Not so much the Pro series as the National semi-pro series, where that scholarship is picked well in advance for political reasons.

Any time you bring down the price, the talent pool gets deeper. Atlantics can't graduate anyone because there's no damn way you can afford that series without some major backing, especially since they killed Indy Lights, forcing the costs in Atlantics even higher. And that's taken a _lot_ of the talent out of Atlantics. Which, I might add, isn't a spec series, while Star Mazda is.

Consider, also, how reliable is Toyota as a sponsor? Mazda, on the other hand, is a Ford brand, and we've seen how Ford has stuck with CART.

Y'know, another good reason for CART to forge stronger ties with IMSA might be to get some exposure for CART prospects doing one-offs in ALMS.

[veeten]

But most of them already have... but then again, they could vie for some of that euro-cash with them euro-rides.

As for lowering the price on a series, the only thing that does is increase the entry list, which allows more bozos with a "Walter Mitty complex" to come in and become "moving chicanes". It's at the higher levels that it becomes more results oriented, and you can actually see who has the talent to move on.
As for running in any series, you have to show them something worth the money, otherwise why should they?

[Lee Janotta]

Bah. That's just elitist. "Oh, we can't allow in these unproven riffraff!"

Well where are they supposed to prove themselves?!

"Somewhere else!"

Feh. Let the broke guys get in and show their chops! Let some old-timers hang around to provide a benchmark for the kids!

Or are we just going to do away with the progress we've made in the last, oh, 80 years, and return to racing being allowed only among the noble classes?

[veeten]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
Bah. That's just elitist. "Oh, we can't allow in these unproven riffraff!"

Exactly, that's what the IRL is for...

Well where are they supposed to prove themselves?!

"Somewhere else!"

Isn't that why the ladder system exists?...

Feh. Let the broke guys get in and show their chops!

...and take up space for the real talent that SHOULD be there.

Let some old-timers hang around to provide a benchmark for the kids!

Looking at the larger number of them that didn't have much of a career, it's more like backmark...

Or are we just going to do away with the progress we've made in the last, oh, 80 years, and return to racing being allowed only among the noble classes?

The majority of which was done either with or by factory involvement, professional teams, and on buisness or corporate sponsorship, otherwise they'd still be trying to run "Johnny Backyard" specials at Indy, Daytona, and Riverside to slightly smaller crowds and even smaller niche press.

Let's face it, there's County fairgrounds, and then there's Series/National/International championships, which means that, soon enough, you have to get serious about this thing called Motorsport. Both for the participants, and the organizers.

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by veeten
Exactly, that's what the IRL is for...

Right, they're strictly NOKD... "Not our kind, dear."

Isn't that why the ladder system exists?...

Exactly! So how can anyone prove themselves if they're kept out of the ladder series just for financial reasons?!

...and take up space for the real talent that SHOULD be there.

Oh, right! Because only the wine and cheese set has talent!

Hey, I've got a fun idea! Lets dig up eugenics and try to breed perfect drivers!

Looking at the larger number of them that didn't have much of a career, it's more like backmark...

Any guy who's been driving in the same category on the same tracks for 20 years is going to be damn hard to beat for anyone!

The majority of which was done either with or by factory involvement, professional teams, and on buisness or corporate sponsorship, otherwise they'd still be trying to run "Johnny Backyard" specials at Indy, Daytona, and Riverside to slightly smaller crowds and even smaller niche press.

I'd be happier with a lot of healthy and competitive series maybe not getting _so_ much press than 3 or 4 juggernaughts.

Let's face it, there's County fairgrounds, and then there's Series/National/International championships, which means that, soon enough, you have to get serious about this thing called Motorsport. Both for the participants, and the organizers.

Sure, sacrifing all else for motorsport guarantees success.

_Why_ should professionalism be an end in itself? Isn't this supposed to be a _sport_? Dammit, isn't it supposed to be fun?!

Hey, I'd love it if the ladder system actually _worked_, and international rallying may be one place where it does (evidence Marko Martin), but in open-wheel racing, money counts for _everything_, and talent next to nothing. If your daddy isn't an executive, a noble, or already a team owner, your chances are somewhere between slim and none of making it these days. That's just pathetic.

[Jay]

I'm not sure how anyone can argue that a lower cost series will have less talent than an expensive one. The fact that Atlantic does cost so much to participate in means that a good portion of the field are only there because Daddy could sign their checque. There are actually only a few teams where a skilled driver can get a ride without bringing his own sponsorship. For the most part, the lower formulae are simply everyone that could bring X-hundred thousand dollars, regardless of talent.

[Lee Janotta]

Thanks Jay.

[Hsaavedra]

Most of you already know what I want to do so I'll just come out and insert my .02 cents. As a fan I have thought about this situation for the longest time because I want to get into the CCWS as a driver, now how would that be affected if I said I have Cerebral Palsy? Would people doubt my talent, would they focus on my condition, or would they just write me off as a backmarker with no money. Lately, I have been looking for money for my project, looking at the stock market as a last resort, but I have thought about growing this out of a high-performance import shop, and going from there. Any thoughts?

[Snrub]

Hey Liz, what do you know about Jonathan Urlin? He's from London Ontario and qualified 6th for the infinity pro race tomorrow. Apparently Budget Rental CANADA has sponsored him. I'd read an article in the local paper last year about him, but other than that I hadn't heard of him before today.

[Jay]

The Infinity Pro series is a complete joke. 4 of the 16 cars crashed trying to do 1 lap of qualifying, and the 12 that did turn laps were 11 mph apart!! That would be huge if they were IRL or Champcars, but these are supposed to 'spec' cars (all the same), so that's an enormous time difference. And add to that the number of drivers that have been seriously injured driving there... I honestly have no idea why I young driver would risk going there.

[The Snout]

Firstly: No owners hell-bent on destroying the series. That situation has been rectified. That comes from the Greek word "rectum", which means "owners hell-bent on destroying the series".

Macdaddy, you truly are a talent
And I liked the post, it's refreshing to read optimism. And I relate to you saying "Nationality means nothing". Australians have had basically zero drivers to follow in F1 and Cart for 10+years yet both thrive as ever down under. It's because we love the racing and the show.

[Snrub]

Originally posted by Jay
The Infinity Pro series is a complete joke.

Maybe so, I still find it interesting that this guy made it there and got good sponsorship.

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by Hsaavedra
Most of you already know what I want to do so I'll just come out and insert my .02 cents. As a fan I have thought about this situation for the longest time because I want to get into the CCWS as a driver, now how would that be affected if I said I have Cerebral Palsy? Would people doubt my talent, would they focus on my condition, or would they just write me off as a backmarker with no money. Lately, I have been looking for money for my project, looking at the stock market as a last resort, but I have thought about growing this out of a high-performance import shop, and going from there. Any thoughts?

People would do all three, so you'd have to be even more successful as a driver to silence your critics.

Stay out of the stock market, real estate is the safest investment right now. Don't even ask me about the futures market, _way_ too easy to lose your shirt there.

Good luck if you can get a tuning shop up and running, but reputation counts for a lot in that business. And not even the most successful shops have the money to do everything they want (Realtime Racing never seems to have enough money left over at the end of the year to go rallying rallying again with a properly developed production-class Civic, as Peter Cunningham would like to).

[¡As-de-mim!]

This time from The Mole at the ITV-F1 website

http://www.itv-f1.com/themole/mole_story/14379

The Mole doesn't suppose that many readers know the Hotel Holt in Reykjavik. It is a rather pleasant place, full of Icelandic works of art and it features the best restaurant in Iceland.



This is the venue each year for an annual meeting of what is known by the acronym NAMSAP. The Mole can never remember what it stands for but it is something like North Atlantic Motor Sport Advisory Panel. This clandestine affair is attended by The Mole and his closest advisors and their counterparts from the United States.

As a cover the meeting is usually billed as a convention of banana retailers.

This may seem rather odd but Iceland is a big banana producer thanks to volcanic activity which produces large amounts of natural hot water which the enterprising Icelanders decided to use to heat their greenhouses to tropical levels. The banana farms of Hveragerdi are very impressive.

The best thing about Iceland is that one can have secret meetings there because no one ever goes there. And there are only 1.2 people per square mile so the chances of being spotted are minimal, even in the bar at the Hotel Holt.

The major topic of this year's NAMSAP conference was the potential merger between CART and Formula 1.

This may sound like a most unlikely scenario but The Mole's team and the Americans seemed to be in agreement that it is something that needs to be watched very closely in the months ahead. The Americans have been watching Gerald Forsythe closely since last October when he and CART chief executive Christopher Pook had a meeting in London with Bernie Ecclestone.

No one seemed to know what the meeting was about but word eventually leaked out that Ecclestone was considering buying into CART. Pook was asked if this was what had been discussed and said that there was "no formal discussions going on about our relationship with Formula 1".

The Mole pondered this for a moment and concluded that Pook meant that no one at the meeting was wearing a tie and thus the talks were of an informal nature.

The Mole's network revealed soon afterwards that Ecclestone's legal and financial people later went over the CART books to see how the business operated. Four months later Forsythe has finally admitted that he went to Ecclestone, proposing a merger between Formula 1 and CART and presented Mr E with a 19-page document outlining the benefits of a partnership between the two series.

Gerald R Forsythe is a very impressive businessman and one should take his moves seriously. He rents and leases boilers and generators across the national and nowadays builds power stations as well (or at least tells other people to build them). This means that he makes shocking amounts of money which has enabled the 62-year-old magnate from Terre Haute, Indiana, to enjoy himself. He had 290 acres of land at his home (known as Canyata) in Marshall, Illinois which he decided he would turn into a personal golf course.

There are some in America who reckon that he is actually wealthier than Ecclestone but is so smart that he does not even appear on the Forbes list of billionaires, while Mr E clocks in at $3.2bn. When he is not busy expanding his business or playing golf, Forsythe gets his kicks from running his own team in the CART Champ Car series. He has an interest in Formula 1 as well because he is the largest shareholder in a British Virgin Islands registered company called Mount Eagle Inc which owns 35% of British American Racing. In recent months he has been quietly buying up CART stock and he says quite openly that he would like to take CART off the stock exchange and back into private hands.

If you look carefully you will also find that Forsythe is also the principal owner of the Monterrey and Mexico City CART races and the man who owns the TV rights for CART in Mexico.

One might think that a CART-F1 merger will not work because the rule are so different but one should remember that CART is already committed to switching to normally-aspirated V10 engines in 2005.

At the same time Ecclestone is busy negotiating to buy back the Formula One group from the banks which acquired the business when Bavarian ex-billionaire Leo Kirch went bust last year. Ecclestone's desire is to revamp the business and then float it and make a pile more money.

Ecclestone has shown in recent years that he does not mind partners so long as he has the power to make decisions and with CART struggling and F1 wanting to accelerate its penetration of the United States of America, one can imagine a situation in which the two get together. Control of CART would give Bernie a series which is similar to Formula 1 but without all the associated political problems, which makes changing the rules virtually impossible. Because of its more restricted chassis regulations CART is very much cheaper than Formula 1 and offers car manufacturers a better chance of selling cars in North America, which is the target market of most of the big firms involved in the sport.

A mixture of CART and F1 events would work for both sides as Ecclestone has long-term deals with race tracks all over the world and CART has some good venues in the US, Canada and Mexico. CART's principal value is that it has American teams and sponsors although the drivers are rather thin on the ground with the only Americans being Jimmy Vasser and Ryan Hunter-Reay. There are however three Canadians and a whole bunch of Mexicans.

If a merged series was to appear it is hard to imagine why the FIA would have any problem with the continuation of the commercial rights deal and most of the F1 teams would happily join with the Americans.

In the circumstances the plans for the big manufacturers to do their own thing at huge expense and against the wishes of the FIA would make little sense because Ecclestone would be offering them the US market on a plate at a fraction of the cost of their own series. Bernie could organise for the teams to get a little bit more than the 23% of the revenues that teams currently receive.

Forsythe says that he still believes that an arrangement between the two championships would be very beneficial and that there are a lot of synergies and at some point would like to see that happen.

The Mole cannot help that Ecclestone might be thinking along similar lines, even if it sounds bananas.

[Lee Janotta]

Market on a plate. Hah!

For one thing, Renault will _never_, EVER sell another car here. NEVER.

Secondly, look at CART's tv market share. Miniscule. It just doesn't make sense for the F1 teams and manufacturers.

[Snrub]

Hey man, the Yugo is about to come back to the US. Renault will too.

Interesting article, but what does CART get from the deal? Why is Forsyth so interested in it? Could it be that he sees CART only avoiding the infighting for so long?

[veeten]

Uhhh, Lee... Renault is part-owner of Nissan. Do the math...

Most of those same manufacturers build cars here, as well as sell them. So it would be in their interest to participate.

Besides, NASCAR is going to have DOHC, fuel injected V8's soon, so what's the harm...

[The Snout]

What's the numbers ? North american car market is 2 and a half or something times bigger than anywhere. I don't see Audi, Porsche, Renault in NASCAR anytime soon, so there's an opportunity their for us to provide openwheel racing exposure in the largest market in the World.

>Because of its more restricted chassis >regulations CART is very much cheaper >than Formula 1 and offers car >manufacturers a better chance of >selling cars in North America, which is >the target market of most of the big >firms involved in the sport.

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by veeten
Uhhh, Lee... Renault is part-owner of Nissan. Do the math...

Most of those same manufacturers build cars here, as well as sell them. So it would be in their interest to participate.

Besides, NASCAR is going to have DOHC, fuel injected V8's soon, so what's the harm...

You're evil.

The fact remains, people here just don't like modern F1, they find it immensly boring. CART has to be the anti-F1 to regain market share (aside from, y'know, become too like NASCAR).

We're just not Europeans, and we never will be. We don't watch soccer, we drive vehicles that are too damn big for our own good, and we elect unqualified rednecks to our highest offices. It's just the reality of the situation, and Bernie's never dealt with that in his F1 marketing.

[veeten]

...and yet, he also has nations like China and Saudi Arabia chasing an F1 date. Interesting...

We don't watch it, but the kids play it in droves...

Then why is the Camry the best selling family sedan in the US, previously it was the Accord...

Not to mention over-weening letchers, and their shrew wives...

Only as we make it out to be, and Bernie has worked with Pook in Long Beach in the 80's, as well as all the other venues up to '91, so he's not that unfamiliar...

[Snrub]

CART's audience has traditionally been a more educated, sophisticated (don't over analyze that part) and urban individual. The sort of person who would be attracted to F1 if it wasn't so boring. This sort of person who should be ashamed of themselves if they ever contemplated a SUV. Hopefully these persons would be reluctant to elect under qualified individuals. This is exactly who Pook is trying to market CART to.

[¡As-de-mim!]

Bernie and wife, Slavicia

[norman-normal]

WOW!... at first I thought it was Edgar Bergan and Charlie McCarthy.