TKR licence

[opinion8head]

Originally Posted by peckstar

GTR, just on your first sentance "Actually, I am not sure this is the end."

Am i right in saying this is the end as far as the TKR licence is concerned. You started your post suggesting there was still more to happen, but didnt come back to that from a licence point of view? or is it still up in the air?

and your comment was more meant to be regarding the team TKR and its continuation through bankruptcy?

Team Kiwi is NOT bankrupt...
There is an employee in that position at present but as I understand the posts I've viewed that alledgedly has no permanent significance to TKR, an annulment is imminent...So I read...Posted by the affected party clarifing his position...Did you hear something over there that we didn't?

[peckstar]

sorry mr pedantic

I think we are well aware of the situation and we dont need to spell everything out in minute detail everytime we post

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Actually, I am not sure this is the end...

Is the transfer now a done deal and monies paid (or promised irrevocably)? In which case this bit is ended, the other thread may still have mileage.

So if I've got it right (sorry, there was a plot I'm sure, but I lost it) Fiores own a licence to go V8 racing, but will not appear as TKR.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Is the transfer now a done deal and monies paid (or promised irrevocably)? In which case this bit is ended, the other thread may still have mileage.

So if I've got it right (sorry, there was a plot I'm sure, but I lost it) Fiores own a licence to go V8 racing, but will not appear as TKR.

Deal agreed in principle, to be rubber stamped by the VESA board next week, when the $$ shows up. Responsibility for presenting a car under this REC is now with the Fiore racing entity.

There is a good shot that the TKR brand may reappear at some stage... just not on its own car!

[DX20VT]

To be rubber stamped by the board next week?

Does that mean that until then it is still TKR's responibility to front up this weekend?

[GtiMagic]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

there were allegedly ,

allegedly one from the

a bid was allegedly the

the TKR REC was allegedly originally

There were allegedly a couple

pay the alleged $750k upgrade

(which Britek allegedly did

TEGA would allegedly withhold 2 years,

allegedly to the

Numero Uno allegedly chose

had allegedly already been.

Allegedly of course!

This was allegedly not

was allegedly about the same.

VESA has allegedly

proceeded entity. Allegedly.

it is alleged that the sale price

VESA allegedly guaranteed

too was allegedly on the

transaction. Allegedly.

entity shall allegedly continue

entity has allegedly bought

due to VESA, allegedly somewhere

willing to sell it for. Allegedly.

the alleged registered debts

25 alleged's or allegedly's? Really GTR?

Come on, how are we supposed to have faith in your alleged in depth knowledge when you're not prepared to back your own word and state it as fact?

On a recount there's actually 27, but I can't be bothered adding them. I think the point is made.

[GTRMagic]

Given that the transfer of title of the TKR REC may now be the subject of court proceedings, your point is what exactly?

[opinion8head]

Originally Posted by peckstar

sorry mr pedantic

I think we are well aware of the situation and we dont need to spell everything out in minute detail everytime we post

Oh...I'm just trying to avoid missinforming...innuendoing or insinuating...that doesn't go down well here with some...

"the situation" has more jumps and air time than a supercross race...
Well aware?...A generalisation IMO...oversimplified...
the devil is in the detail...Eh

[kiwi butt]

Originally Posted by peckstar

sorry mr pedantic

I think we are well aware of the situation and we dont need to spell everything out in minute detail everytime we post

Oh Mr Peckstar, you big hairy brute of a man! How can you be so mean to the soothsayers, to the fountains of knowledge, that exist around my best friend, Mr David Paul John.

Team Kiwi isnt dead, it is metamorphosising itself into something else.

Seling Scooter's car would have to help the finances

Will David Paul John be able to write on the internet from jail?

I love you David Paul John!! Dont give up the Kiwi dream!!

[opinion8head]

[QUOTE=kiwi butt;2452556]Oh Mr Peckstar, you big hairy



Seling Scooter's car would have to help the finances

Well it would help Scooter, The "family interests" have a lien on it "alledgedly"

[DJJ]

Why has KB been Banned?

[peckstar]

clearly came on here pi$$ed

I dont know

[Crash Test]

There's hardly enough good quality muckraking around here these days.

[bazil]

Originally Posted by DJJ

Why has KB been Banned?

Maybe it was the post she made in the last AU thread...

[DJJ]

Never saw that, fair enough that was a **** thing to say.

[opinion8head]

On this topic...TKR Licence...TKR no longer has a licence...VESA has Removed it from DJs care and it now resides with a team of Racers,
AND RIGHTLY SO...

The passion required to be a genuine racer seems to have been missing from DJ since DAY ONE IMO...more of a licence to take $$$$ in my view...

A view held by others I have spoken to as well...DJs quip that "there's no money in racing" has always troubled me...observing "the style" I have to say, money came in and went somewhere...Not paying the overdues obviously...they get part paid by friends of the team and employees...TRUE!...Ask them!

" LOANS to DJ" for want of a better description, that are Denied, and not repaid either... Loans that are "Invisible" ie... not from secured lenders...
Like the $6K that allowed TKR to start at Hamilton this month...
Someone puts up the cash personally...Evo will be noting the expenditures...Doing the books and so on but, in Proof of Debt terms these LENDERS are INVISIBLE...No Reciepts are given! Just Promises...Demands for reimbursment by some of these LENDERS is met with Contempt! Others are told they'll just have to wait until some "fictitious" windfall due arrives...TRUE...and the waiting continues.

The number of people in this situation unknown by anyone other than DJ/Evo and "the lender" and the efftpos people perhaps...Although it would take a "Terms of Enquiry" Court order to find that out...And the "officials" don't seem to be aware or interested, in the depth of it... at present.

HISTORY...
I gather Apparel by design won their case and yet have not recieved settlment ...and that was years ago...it was $170K I've been told...
B Gillon won his case...Years ago as well...and he's apparently still waiting for his loan repayments...Court ordered as well...But treated with contempt...over $750K...same again!

Court Ordered settlments...Ignored or Appealed...


SBR and others claims being rejected by the courts ...the defence "disputing the amounts" or mediation at the courthouse steps... deals that have been done ... and then not honoured...
Its been a waste of time and $$ so far...for all.

EXCEPT FOR...
The ANZ/Nationals case...It was successful from their point of view...$360K approx...
The first clean cut case to succeed in "real terms" Cut & dryed!

Other potential claims are held back by claimants who don't have the time or the $$ to persue it any longer...they have to get back to work to cover their losses on DJs Promises...the little people...under $100K...
Others who have more at stake...or "invested" and have security interests over assets, have taken a different aproach to their predicament...
And they've all had the same assurances from DJ...and treatment.

Pedantic.. it may seem to some...deniable? maybe, but TRUE in Fact and Content as I know it...

Woolley... if this needs shifting to TKR in 2009,I appoligize.

[GTRMagic]

FFF Explained

[opinion8head]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

FFF Explained

Sounds like a young man with his head "well screwed on "
Good luck TF...Enjoy your future

[Kiwikid]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Actually, I am not sure this is the end...

The story from the powder room goes that there were allegedly 2 bids for the Numero Uno-owned Team Kiwi Racing Racing Entitlement Contract ("TKR REC"), allegedly one from the Fiore racing entity, and another from a consortium made up of multiple parties.

In the end, by the closing period set by VESA, the Fiore racing entity bid was allegedly the only entry capable of being executed for the sale of the TKR REC.

As some of the more detail focused readers may be aware, the TKR REC was allegedly originally constructed in the era of the TEGA Teams Licence Agreement, as a Level 2 Franchise Licence Slot.

With the commencement of the shiny new 2009 Racing Entitlement Contract to settle commercial matters pertaining to the rights and obligations, as well as income streams of licence holders, a Level 2 Franchise Licence Slot allegedly needed to be upgraded to be eligible to achieve a full spec 2009 REC

There were allegedly a couple of options here, to either pay the alleged $750k upgrade fee up front (which Britek allegedly did for one of their franchise licence slots) or where TEGA would allegedly withhold REC income for a period of 2 years, allegedly to the equivalent value of $750k.

Numero Uno allegedly chose to do the latter, to pay $375k per season for 2 seasons, via deduction from TLA/REC income entitlements. The first season of deduction had allegedly already been completed, with 2009 the second and last period. Allegedly of course!

This was allegedly not placing additional financial imposts on the Level 2 franchise licence slot holders, as the income stream before and after the conversion from the Teams Agreement to the Racing Entitlement Contract (less the $375k per annum upgrade fee) was allegedly about the same.

Why is this important?

As discussed in MeN, VESA has allegedly proceeded with the transfer of the TKR REC to the Fiore racing entity. Allegedly.

Like everything to do with motorsport, money and price and value are sometimes interesting. In this particular scenario, it is alleged that the sale price of the TKR REC to the Fiore racing entity was as little as $1 million Australian Dollars.

To give some relevance, the sale of the Walden/Romano REC was reported in the press at $2 million AUD. VESA allegedly guaranteed that this licence was already at REC standard, and no further funds were required to upgrade (it too was allegedly on the TEGA PAYG plan for upgrade from TLA to REC). Presumably the upgrade costs were deducted by VESA before final monies were remitted to Mr Romano and Mr Walden.

So it seems the Fiore racing entity may have gotten a good deal, paying half what WP had managed in the most recent transaction. Allegedly.

However, it appears that the Fiore racing entity shall allegedly continue the payment of the old TEGA upgrade fee of $375k for the balance of this season.

For all intents and purposes, the Fiore racing entity has allegedly bought itself a 2009 Racing Entitlement Contract for $1.375m, when the most recent going rate was allegedly $2m.

While the shareholders in Numero Uno shall receive, less costs for advertising and handling of the sale, and any other owings and outgoings due to VESA, allegedly somewhere around NZ$1.2m from the sale of this TKR REC, depending on currency positions.

An asset is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. All the valuers in the world are only estimating what something may go for in a sale situation, and in this case, a price was paid for the TKR REC that crystallises its valuation. The price may be low compared to some, but given the number of interested parties with their acts together, on the day, the price paid was what the TKR REC was worth, and what VESA were willing to sell it for. Allegedly.

The challenge back in Kiwiland now, is the unravelling of the the alleged registered debts owed across the legal entities, and by Mr John either personally or as guarantor, to unwind a financial web that took more than 10 years to construct.

Presuming any of this actually happened

Assuming this is correct - it is a good example of how facts can be used to present an angle. The Walden / Walkinshaw deal as a benchmark makes $1.375M seem cheap. But, instead of taking the last sale - lets take the last 3 (licences that changed hands for this season). Wheel / TWR $1.2M, Morton / Marshal, $1.2M Walden / TWR $2M. Giving an average of $1.47M and clearly demonstrating the $2M as an outlier.

GTR- are you just having a bit of fun with everyone? Nothing at all wrong with this deal. Except, perhaps, that Fiore is being run by PMM - who's owner is on the board. I assume he didn't do anything to guide the Fiore's on price!

[GTRMagic]

The point you may have missed.. is that if Mr John were to argue that the net $1.375m price tag is too cheap for the REC sale, given the most recent sale was reported at $2m, there may be a legal issue in the wind regarding selling an asset too cheaply....

If you look at some of the claims in the media, to satisfy all creditors to Mr John personally, or where he has personally guaranteed certain debts, or where there are allegedly liens against particular assets, or promises to repay, or contracts to repay... the net $1m may not be enough to clear all that...

... hence an argument for a lawsuit about selling for less than most recent market price.

[bazil]

“TKR is 100 per cent obsolete as far as we’re concerned, that’s all over,” Fiore said.

I think this says it all. "Bye Bye"

I think it should be realized that it it does not have to be called "Team Kiwi" to carry New Zealand pride... there are plenty of very visual Kiwis (Drivers,Team Owners and crew members) up and down pitt lane to be proud of or support.

Move on, nothing to see here...

[DJJ]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The point you may have missed.. is that if Mr John were to argue that the net $1.375m price tag is too cheap for the REC sale, given the most recent sale was reported at $2m, there may be a legal issue in the wind regarding selling an asset too cheaply....

If you look at some of the claims in the media, to satisfy all creditors to Mr John personally, or where he has personally guaranteed certain debts, or where there are allegedly liens against particular assets, or promises to repay, or contracts to repay... the net $1m may not be enough to clear all that...

... hence an argument for a lawsuit about selling for less than most recent market price.

But Mr John has posted that he only had to pay the ANZ bank back and he was nearly done with that.

Are you trying to say Mr John has posted a very misleading thing so everyone can have a group hug with him... were back sort of thing.

I can't see how that he as a bankrupt has to satisfy all creditors to clear his name that would just be stupid in the extreme.

Worst thing Mr john has done in this has joined forums, made media releases and still trying to bull**** everyone. I actually feel sorry for evo, come back evo.

[Geewizz]

Originally Posted by DJJ

I actually feel sorry for evo, come back evo.

DJJ, Evo was a believer, and it's probable that he still is. I suspect when he comes back it will will guns blazing in all directions - ANZ, Official Assignee, VESA...etc etc etc.... And probably ending his first post with 'this aint over'....

Actually, hell, I was a believer too - about 6 - 7 years ago, (obviously you were too somewhere along the line before you got burnt) but it just got out of hand, and the big fella refused to step aside. He could of walked away a wealthy man some years ago.....so they get what they deserve now.

[opinion8head]

Originally Posted by Geewizz

DJJ, Evo was a believer, and it's probable that he still is. I suspect when he comes back it will will guns blazing in all directions - ANZ, Official Assignee, VESA...etc etc etc.... And probably ending his first post with 'this aint over'....

Actually, hell, I was a believer too - about 6 - 7 years ago, (obviously you were too somewhere along the line before you got burnt) but it just got out of hand, and the big fella refused to step aside. He could of walked away a wealthy man some years ago.....so they get what they deserve now.

"You rear what you sow".....

[rik]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The point you may have missed.. is that if Mr John were to argue that the net $1.375m price tag is too cheap for the REC sale, given the most recent sale was reported at $2m, there may be a legal issue in the wind regarding selling an asset too cheaply....

I can't see any legal challenge getting up, given the state of the economy, the sale being mid-season, and the fact that Mr John isn't likely to have enough cash to even pay a lawyer to take on V8SA!