[BTCC] rounds 7-9 @ thruxton 2014

[porsche962fan]

Shedden lost his 5th place , he was demoted back to 6th but I think it's just a point less

Austin got excluded and got a massive 4 points on license

Goff appealed regarding being passed under yellow flags by Jackson

[touring fan01]

fantastic btcc races today! the series is back to its best

[Alex Langheck]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

I was there. Nobody actually knew whether Simon Belcher was okay at Allards where I was, so everyone was pretty worried, especially when the only thing we knew about it was the replay on the big screen of a Toyota going off the circuit at 120mph at an angle and airborne...

...as for the Ginetta Juniors race, I hope it was as good on TV as it was as a spectator.

Foster's shunt in R2 and O Jackson's R3 hit looked nasty too. I think the barriers at Church may need a rethink...

...but great racing nevertheless. And as for what I said earlier about AJ, he finished 1st, 2nd and 4th with no less than 36kg of ballast on his car all weekend. He's the best driver in the field now...

I must admit, I think AJ is a cut above the others. I wonder how long he is likely to stay in the BTCC. We know he likes RX, but has he expressed any wishes to go further up the ladder?

[thlbtcc]

I must say, Steve Neal needs to stop talking.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by thlbtcc

I must say, Steve Neal needs to stop talking.

Why, whats he saying?

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

I was there. Nobody actually knew whether Simon Belcher was okay at Allards where I was, so everyone was pretty worried, especially when the only thing we knew about it was the replay on the big screen of a Toyota going off the circuit at 120mph at an angle and airborne...

..

Was he close to hitting the trees?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPn8IVf27e8

Originally Posted by codename_47

I'm not sure what can be done about that area of track, as i think the last time this came up (was it after that unfortunate Clio fatality in the mid 00's? ) it was revealed that the circuit doesn't actually own that land over the far side of the track and the people who do own it are resistant to any changes.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I read that on this forum so would like to know the whole story myself please

These arguments were similar to what they used to say about Tamburello, which has river behind it, so they had to put in a chicane... On tv Harvey and O'Neill were sort of regurgitating the old line about, how its always been like that.

[S griffin]

Great day for Jordan. He is looking hot favourite to be back to back champion, but Brands Race 3 showed it won't always go his way. The only one as good as him at the moment is Colin, who's start in race 3 was super. Yes he had the RWD, but the way he went around outside without losing momentum was mega.

Great to see the Ford back to the front, Jackson drove brilliantly and Gio will have a confidence boost after race 3. Alain Menu also looked good, hope he gets a trouble free weekend, because he did well, but unfortunately his penalty in race 2 meant we didn't see what he could do in race.

Plato had some bad luck in race 3, he is becoming a bit of a bad luck magnet have to admit and these days he doesn't seem to creating it anymore. But knowing him he'll have forgotten about it by next race and produce a great performance.

Seeing a car roll into the trees is not a good sight. It happens in rallies in forests, but shouldn't happen in circuit racing. Don't what would have happened to Belcher had there been no tyres, because then he would have gone into Menu's ditch. So I don't what would have happened. Maybe the run off should be looked at, but let's leave that to the experts because it is hard. What I don't want is this great track to be ruined. Thankfully the cars were strong enough in all cases.

Yes Biscuits, the ginetta race was exciting on TV too. Paul O'Neill enjoyed it. As for Steve Neal, could he have said something about Collard?

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Great to see the Ford back to the front, Jackson drove brilliantly and Gio will have a confidence boost after race 3.

Looks a bit silly now that he nearly didn't have a drive

Originally Posted by S griffin

Thankfully the cars were strong enough in all cases.

But not as strong as they should be.... how many cars still have electric windows, old spec seats and a roll cage Mr Gow knows since at least 2009 needs beefing up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX0I4Bi3Wxs

I losing count, but that's about four plus cars over the barriers at Thruxton in recent times. Was anything done after Plato 2012 and Burt 2007.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

But not as strong as they should be.... how many cars still have electric windows, old spec seats and a roll cage Mr Gow knows since at least 2009 needs beefing up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX0I4Bi3Wxs

If anything, the rollcages in the current spec cars have been accused of being too beefy and over-engineered. Only the Hondas have electric windows, something that's been the norm since the Integra days.

Someone mentioned a Clio fatality - that was Kevin Lloyd and he didn't have a massive crash like yesterday's ones. Wasn't it a heart attack that caused him to go off?

[BillWiskins]

Mr Belcher has spoken to TCT about his off. He mentions a gravel trap but surely, at the speed any car will be doing at that part of the circuit, a gravel trap will be a massive rollover risk.

If the circuit doesn't own the area past the tyre barrier at Church, then perhaps a tarmac run-off on the outside of Church is in order.

[PandaKing]

I think the first thing that should be done is to beef up the tyre wall down there, it looked more like a tyre heap on TV.

[Clive Brown]

Or a concrete wall with a SAFER barrier immediately in front of it.

[ascona i2000]

The Clio crash was not even at church it was coming out of noble I believe.
In fact I don't recall any real nasty accidents at church over the years, they have always seemed to be on the fast run from the complex around to goodwood/village. It might not look it on the tv but the run off at church is actually pretty big, also the angle of the corner and the run to it means cars rarely go off in that particular direction.. Yesterday was a run of bad luck..

[Sodemo]

They need to slow the cars down before they get to the barrier first. If they are still hitting the barriers at over 120 then whatever measures put in place have failed. A mixture of tarmac and gravel would perhaps help. One problem with the lay of the land there is that it's all downhill, so as the cars are heading off they are almost gaining speed. I agree that something better is needed, the trouble is that you have the other issue of that if you make the "stop" too abrupt you can incur other kinds of damage and injuries. One thing about the foster and belcher incidents was that at least the energy was dissipated somewhat with a series of rolls and impacts.

[porsche962fan]

something for the statistics

could that have been the 1st ever NGTC podium without a Honda or MG driver on it ?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

Or a concrete wall with a SAFER barrier immediately in front of it.

SAFER works fine on an oval where the impact is typically at more of a angle, at Church you would be hit the barrier virtually square on. Barrel-rolling into the trees at least helps to dispensate the energy. 100mph head-on into a concrete wall even with a SAFER barrier would give a very different result.

I don't disagree that the situation needs to be looked at but lets not jump to any hasty conclusions.

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

If anything, the rollcages in the current spec cars have been accused of being too beefy and over-engineered. Only the Hondas have electric windows, something that's been the norm since the Integra days.

No they are not. A 2009 WRC car or V8SC CoF are of higher spec and they probably need an upgrade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=0JoLBtFUlaY

WRC 2009+ use impact absorbing foam in the doors, V8SC CoF use honeycomb aluminum, NASCAR CoT use foam in the doors.

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

Or a concrete wall with a SAFER barrier immediately in front of it.

Then you increase risk of car being collected by another

Originally Posted by Sodemo

They need to slow the cars down before they get to the barrier first. If they are still hitting the barriers at over 120 then whatever measures put in place have failed. A mixture of tarmac and gravel would perhaps help. One problem with the lay of the land there is that it's all downhill, so as the cars are heading off they are almost gaining speed. I agree that something better is needed, the trouble is that you have the other issue of that if you make the "stop" too abrupt you can incur other kinds of damage and injuries. One thing about the foster and belcher incidents was that at least the energy was dissipated somewhat with a series of rolls and impacts.

TechPro barriers are designed for this type of application. 40% more effective than tyres.
http://www.tecprobarriers.com

At worst proper four or six layer tyre barrier could hardly be any worse

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by codename_47

I'm not sure what can be done about that area of track, as i think the last time this came up (was it after that unfortunate Clio fatality in the mid 00's? ) it was revealed that the circuit doesn't actually own that land over the far side of the track and the people who do own it are resistant to any changes.

I really love Thruxton to bits... both from a driving and spectating perspective... but I'm fearful that the outside of Church is a fatality waiting to happen. We were soooo lucky at the weekend that everyone walked away unscathed, and as others have said, the race should have been red flagged when the [rather inadequate] barrier couldn't be rebuilt. I've a feeling that it may not be on the calendar again if the safety issue can't be sorted out

[Bramzel]

I disagree on that last post. The messy tirewall is a disaster for the cars, but it's soft nature is the reason all drivers walked a way. A wall or guardrail hit with 100+mph would've caused worse injuries I think. In all instances the energy of the crashes was absorbed by the tire-pile and cars perfectly. Unfortunately for especially Welch this means heavy damage to the car though, but the result of that is an undamaged driver.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

I disagree on that last post. The messy tirewall is a disaster for the cars, but it's soft nature is the reason all drivers walked a way. A wall or guardrail hit with 100+mph would've caused worse injuries I think. In all instances the energy of the crashes was absorbed by the tire-pile and cars perfectly. Unfortunately for especially Welch this means heavy damage to the car though, but the result of that is an undamaged driver.

There are trees behind and to either side of the tyre wall. From what I could see the tyre wall appeared to deviate an approaching car rather than safely arresting it. That's fine if there's no ''furniture' around, but not if there are trees etc... It was a miracle nobody ended up connecting with one of them... and I dread to think of the consequences if they had.

[Craner Curves]

Exactly. Just look at Allan Simonsen at Le Mans last year. A racecar can be as strong as you like, but they're not designed to hit trees at over 100 mph.

[steve_r]

Something needs to be done. It was frightening seeing those high speed accidents, with cars heading towards trees and a haphazard pile of tyres at well over 100 mph. I think we are lucky not be here talking about serious injuries or worse.

A large tarmac run off on hte outside of the corner may help, or a redesign incorporating a chicane or slow corner may be necessary. I'm sure that neither of these options would be universally popular, but doing nothing is surely not an option, especially if the NGTC cars are going to be running with more power in the future.

Aside from that, there was some great racing, especially in race 3. I wonder if Turkington might be a good bet for the drivers title this year? They seem to have improved the BMW at it's weak tracks, and we still have BMW's joker round at Knockhill to come.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Aside from that, there was some great racing, especially in race 3. I wonder if Turkington might be a good bet for the drivers title this year? They seem to have improved the BMW at it's weak tracks, and we still have BMW's joker round at Knockhill to come.

I'd love to see Turkington pull it off. He's a real class act and such a nice guy too. Even when he's 'roughed up' by the others, he's rarely anything other than magnanimous. That said, I fear the Hondas are just too strong this year... even for a resurgent BMW. It's fantastic to watch though.

[Inside BTCC]

Originally Posted by BillWiskins

Mr Belcher has spoken to TCT about his off. He mentions a gravel trap but surely, at the speed any car will be doing at that part of the circuit, a gravel trap will be a massive rollover risk.

If the circuit doesn't own the area past the tyre barrier at Church, then perhaps a tarmac run-off on the outside of Church is in order.

Belcher said the same to me, but as you point out, a car sideways there in a gravel trap would be at huge risk of rolling.

Foster pointed out that tarmac run off is the best solution to scrub off speed, but any option wouldn't come cheaply.

[CarsCarsCars]

Maybe a high-grip tarmac like is used at Paul Ricard. With a small strip of grass between it and the track, to prevent people using the run off to gain speed. They may not be able to stop in time, but at least the speed would be greatly reduced and less chance of rolls than with gravel