[BTCC] rounds 7-9 @ thruxton 2014

[medius]

Plato found that area in Qualifying in 2012.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRV5_lQ9M4E

John Cleland found the ditch in the 90s in the Cavalier, though I can't find footage of that.

The biggest issue I feel is funds for improvement. Autosport reported in the last couple of years that the restrictive useage of the circuit means that the karting track on location open 7 days a week earns as much as the main track open for a fraction of that as noisey event days. In my opinion, armco with double or triple layer tyres and a conveyor belt is the most cost effective solution (similar to what is already in place outside of the Campbell/Cobb/Segrave complex through to Noble and Goodwood. Though this could be the result, but still better than cars in trees. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jjwn-0h8ujo

At the end of the day though, no accident at that part of the track will be a small one, the solution to that would be to slow the cars down with a tweak to the layout, maybe tightening Goodwood into a right-left right chicane, similar to how Coram at goes into Murrays at Snetterton. But I think that is the last that anyone would want. Drivers like the challenge and its a track that sorts the quick guys from the properly quick ones.

[S griffin]

Can't remember Cleland going off there. I know Menu, Watts and Muller went into the ditch in the 90s. So did Bristow in 89.

[Sodemo]

I'd be firmly against any changes to the track itself, however improvements to the run off and barriers I would support.

[CarsCarsCars]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I'd be firmly against any changes to the track itself, however improvements to the run off and barriers I would support.

I agree. The track itself should remain unchanged.

[BillWiskins]

Yeah - for a track that has 'The Fastest Race Circuit in the UK' as not only its 'tagline' but also as a footer to every bit of signage in the place (even on the ladies & gents signs for the paddock toilets!), losing Church as it is would be a disaster.

Saddening to hear that the few allowed race days don't even surpass the kart activities in terms of money brought in - though I returned to Thruxton this weekend for the first time in a good few years and it was by far the most people I'd ever seen for a BTCC meet. Anyway, time to rethink the driving experience I was putting off there, I think.

[Go_For_Pole]

Whatever happened to some catch fencing? Hardly an innovation or major expense

[JimW]

Hmm:
http://www.msauk.org/site/cms/newsar...ter=1&nid=1639

and

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113806

Jim

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole

Whatever happened to some catch fencing? Hardly an innovation or major expense

We dropped catch fencing about 30 years ago. Too dangerous.

Jim

[Go_For_Pole]

I don't mean catch fencing within the run off but in the end of it on top of the usual wall (with tyres in front) like all modern circuits

[JimW]

Ah, debris fencing. This is not intended to protect drivers from impact but spectators from debris. No spectators there, so not really the issue.

The issue to be considered is how errant cars are best stopped from going "off-piste".


Jim

[TWRv12]

Simon Belcher said on TTT that he knocked down a 15ft tree

Simon's team now have t-shirts for sale on ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/smbay11?_t...p2047675.l2559

[Go_For_Pole]

Fencing is stopping anything to go off limits for the benefit of everyone. In this case since a car barrel rolled out of the track if anything some proper catch fencing would have stopped it. Sure there were no spectators there but there was one driver.

[deley]

The relevant parties (Thruxton, BARC, MSA, FIA) will assess the incidents and circumstances. This will determine any changes considered necessary.

Fortunately posts on here regarding "what should be done" fall on the irrelevant side.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Simon Belcher said on TTT that he knocked down a 15ft tree

Simon's team now have t-shirts for sale on ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/smbay11?_t...p2047675.l2559

Ollie Jackson also connected with a tree.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by deley

The relevant parties (Thruxton, BARC, MSA, FIA) will assess the incidents and circumstances. This will determine any changes considered necessary.

Fortunately posts on here regarding "what should be done" fall on the irrelevant side.

Including this post above

[Moneyseeker]

I think Thruxton can count themselves very fortunate that no drivers were seriously injured. Looking at the image below that BTCC Crazy (btcccrazy.co.uk) captured from the ITV coverage it looks pretty clear that the tyre barrier there wasn't even of an acceptable standard before Nick Foster's crash. How anyone could describe the pile of tyres to the right of Nick Foster's crash as any sort of tyre barrier suitable for the environs of a 120 MPH corner is beyond me.

Plato almost launched the barrier there in 2012, so there should have been warning signs from this and by the time Simon Belcher had his crash, there was very little tyre barrier left and he was launched from the remains.

This doesn't need big money spending, it needs a properly built and more substantial tyre barrier that extends away from the tree line.

Aside the from the risk to driver safety, we have also had 4 cars written off in two weekends at huge costs to the teams and drivers, again at Donington why any concrete wall that can be hit by a car is left unprotected by tyres is crazy. The BTCC has been lucky in the last two weekends and it is a testament to the safety of the cars and driver safety equipment, but luck runs out and both the above examples are not expensive or complicated fixes IMO.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

The BTCC has been lucky in the last two weekends and it is a testament to the safety of the cars and driver safety equipment, but luck runs out

Extraordinarily lucky. We need to be very thankful that we've not been discussing the unthinkable these last few days.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by deley

The relevant parties (Thruxton, BARC, MSA, FIA) will assess the incidents and circumstances. This will determine any changes considered necessary.

Fortunately posts on here regarding "what should be done" fall on the irrelevant side.

You're aware that this is a discussion forum right?

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

You're aware that this is a discussion forum right?

Jim

[bella]

Originally Posted by CarsCarsCars

Maybe a high-grip tarmac like is used at Paul Ricard. With a small strip of grass between it and the track, to prevent people using the run off to gain speed. They may not be able to stop in time, but at least the speed would be greatly reduced and less chance of rolls than with gravel

afaik, this highly abrasive tarmac stuff doesn't actually slow off-track excursions in practice, especially at high speed. it's pretty though.

was it at church that a f3 car landed in the hedge too? i want to say it was dirani in a carlin car in about '05, there was certainly a great photo of it landing in the foliage with the driver still on full "I'VE GOT THIS" opposite lock.

[CarsCarsCars]

Originally Posted by bella

afaik, this highly abrasive tarmac stuff doesn't actually slow off-track excursions in practice, especially at high speed. it's pretty though.

was it at church that a f3 car landed in the hedge too? i want to say it was dirani in a carlin car in about '05, there was certainly a great photo of it landing in the foliage with the driver still on full "I'VE GOT THIS" opposite lock.

But the highly abrasive tarmac would give a better surface to brake on than grass

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Aside the from the risk to driver safety, we have also had 4 cars written off in two weekends at huge costs to the teams and drivers, again at Donington why any concrete wall that can be hit by a car is left unprotected by tyres is crazy. The BTCC has been lucky in the last two weekends and it is a testament to the safety of the cars and driver safety equipment, but luck runs out and both the above examples are not expensive or complicated fixes IMO.

In the specific case of Donington, it's a mixed use circuit - lots of bike meetings aswell as cars. The concrete wall that got hit has little room for two rows of tyres and conveyor belt in front of it (specifically there, not generally) as that would encroach into the gravel trap and/or grass that runs down the drivers' left at Hollywood. That means less room to run wide and more of an obstacle, which (for cars) would likely see tyres & banding dragged off the wall and those then needing maintenance. For bikes who go wide there and recover (or stop in the gravel) it would reduce the space available and possibly cause more - and worse - incidents.

The law of unintended consequences was demonstrated very clearly at the weekend. Let's not go knee-jerking and making things worse.

I can't comment on the Thruxton incidents as I've never been there, but it's worth remembering that the various sanctioning authorities - MSA, FIA, ACU and so on - inspect circuits fairly regularly and approve them for racing or demand changes to allow continuation of the circuit licence. The MSA have already said that they'll investigate the weekend's incidents; I'm happy to let them get on with it.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Greem

In the specific case of Donington, it's a mixed use circuit - lots of bike meetings aswell as cars. The concrete wall that got hit has little room for two rows of tyres and conveyor belt in front of it (specifically there, not generally) as that would encroach into the gravel trap and/or grass that runs down the drivers' left at Hollywood. That means less room to run wide and more of an obstacle, which (for cars) would likely see tyres & banding dragged off the wall and those then needing maintenance. For bikes who go wide there and recover (or stop in the gravel) it would reduce the space available and possibly cause more - and worse - incidents.

My simple solution then. Get rid of bike racing.

[bella]

Originally Posted by CarsCarsCars

But the highly abrasive tarmac would give a better surface to brake on than grass

honestly, from the state of a couple of the cars that found a wall to hit during the elms test at ricard the other week, it really doesn't make a difference, not over standard tarmac.

and turning much of thruxton into asphalt isn't really an option.

perhaps the issue lies with what's driving on the track rather than what's off it?

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by bella

honestly, from the state of a couple of the cars that found a wall to hit during the elms test at ricard the other week, it really doesn't make a difference, not over standard tarmac.

and turning much of thruxton into asphalt isn't really an option.

perhaps the issue lies with what's driving on the track rather than what's off it?

It doesn't need any tarmac at Thruxton, just a better tyre barrier. I'm amazed the MSA sanctioned that piece of tyrewall as it looks barely capable of stopping a pushbike at speed....

It needs to be twice as high and three times as wide. And as for the pile of tyres arranged 'scrap yard' style under the tree, what are they doing there..?