MSA - Giving marshals more voice

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

I think you will find that the figures quoted (500) are for completely new marshals

Which are the ones who don't have documents as discussed elsewhere. This has a vague feeling of '95% of all statistics are made up on the spot' about it. I'm not convinced that the MSA

a) knew who was out there before.
b) knows who is out there now
c) what the difference is.

I do have confidence in the BMMC to keep plugging our cause, though, so any cynicism directed at the joint MSA/TOCA organisation (!) should not be viewed as any criticism of our club reps. Keep at 'em, guys.

[archaic gold]

In answer as to why we do not just have one Marshals Club, such as Racesafe in Bike Racing (but they only cover major events) is that some 30 years ago, the MSA stated that all Organising Clubs must be able to run a Meeting on their own resources. Most Clubs have their own Senior Officials, but relied on such Clubs as the BMMC for Marshals. Therefore, they had no option but to start their own Marshal's Register.

[Stephen Green]

Originally Posted by Pistonbroke

And am I right in thinking that those of us who marshal speed events as opposed to race meetings, being not registered with MSA (and thus unable to get 'The Marshal') don't count in any of the figures? There's plenty of us - but not enough of course

There is no reason you don't have an MSA Licence. Give them a ring, explain your problem and I suspect a nice shiney new licence will find its way into your letterbox very soon!

The thread is really discussing how many NEW marshals have been recruited through the VIM initiative, not whether existing marshals have a licence or not.

When marshals numbers are worked out (for existing marshals) they only count you once, under your primary clubs name.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by numbersix

I suppose the notion of having just one national marshals organisation (like racesafe?) and dispensing with club marshals altogther would last less than five minutes.

Racesafe isn't 'one national marshals' organisation'. It's a marshalling organisation which was set up to provide marshals for the 'big' meetings, with its own licensing system additional to the pre-existing ACU set-up. Division isn't the best way forward!

Originally Posted by Paul Newns

You cause enough trouble as an I.O., let alone being let loose with the washing!

Trouble? I've had a quiet season......well, there's the small matter of a couple of dozen or so cars requiring a suspended tow or a full lift, a few(!) cars in various gravel traps & a couple of fires, but apart from them I've had nothing to do!

[archaic gold]

Please do not forget, Marshals DO NOT get Licences from the MSA!; they are Registration Cards, proving you are on the MSA Marshals' Register.

[chezza]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Which are the ones who don't have documents as discussed elsewhere. This has a vague feeling of '95% of all statistics are made up on the spot' about it. I'm not convinced that the MSA

a) knew who was out there before.
b) knows who is out there now
c) what the difference is.

I have to totally agree with you there Woolley.

And as has been said before a name on a list really doesn't mean a lot, are they oud there all the time, once or twice a year, or have they just expressed and interest? Also there has been no explaination of the figures, which in a case like this should be more transparent I think.

There are no doubt, hundreds of marshals out there...but how often do they marshal, somene has already asked what makes and defines a marshal as active? One, 5 or 15 days...who knows! I was told at a msa conference that on average people do 7 days a year...which seems so few when compared to my 40+ each year, and in a way makes the 12 day requirement for the GP interesting.

As I don't have a licence I won't have been counted, how many more people are there like this? Counting EVERYONE might mean the situation isn't as bad as thought. However those who are there week in week out will know that the situation is bad and there aren't enough marshals when there are meetings at every circuit in the country.

[Robin_D]

Well I have only just upgraded after 7 years and don't have a license so I won't be either.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Pistonbroke

And am I right in thinking that those of us who marshal speed events as opposed to race meetings, being not registered with MSA (and thus unable to get 'The Marshal') don't count in any of the figures? There's plenty of us - but not enough of course

Yes. Ditto Kart.

Regards

Jim

[Mark Mitchell]

Last year I asked to be "Degraded" (Honestly) ..........someone said my Observing was crap, so i suppose that was a start!!

[numbersix]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

Last year I asked to be "Degraded" (Honestly) ..........someone said my Observing was crap, so i suppose that was a start!!

I'm degrading. Is that the same?

[numbersix]

Originally Posted by Robin_D

Well I have only just upgraded after 7 years and don't have a license so I won't be either.

What colour grade is a non-marshal? How about orange on an orange background, with fetching orange letters

[Kermit Power]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

The thread is really discussing how many NEW marshals have been recruited through the VIM initiative, not whether existing marshals have a licence or not.

That's an interesting point. I am a new marshal this year, but VIM had nothing to do with it, as I just followed up through the MGCC on something that I thought looked interesting at the MGCC International weekend at Silverstone.

Does that mean I do or don't count in the 500?

[Stephen Green]

I am sure you have been included in the figures. The VIM initiative is just a part of the recruitment being undertaken at all levels. Therefore, any new marshal, whether from VIM's activities or not, should be included in the figures quoted.

[Woolley]

So how is the data collected? I say this because at Shelsley I've been lucky enough to have 12 first-timers during the year, most of whom are sticking around. I'm quite sure nobody at MSA (and possibly even BMMC) knows about them.

On the other hand, several regulars have not been seen this year. I'm interested in finding out why, but at the moment even I don't know if they've given up or just gone elsewhere.

[b1ackcr0w]

I gave up speed hillclimb for the second half of 2006 (and for the immediate future) for two reasons.

1. My car is falling apart and I don't have the cash to get it repaired or replaced.

2. I tried to help solve a long existing problem that one venue had. During the day, a family member of a competitor marched up to me and gave me a very humiliating top of the voice dressing down in the middle of the paddock. Mainly becuase they were having a bad day, and instead of realising I was trying to help, just saw me as fair game for a drubbing. I have never had an apology from anybody representing the competitor, and don't know of any action taken by the club or it's officials on the day or subsequently.

After number 2, I really just can't be bothered to solve problem No.1

The VIM initiative has my wholehearted backing and support. But the only evidence I see of the initiative getting through to grass roots level, is at clubs that were already doing their best. At other places, it seems it's still taking time to filter down to where it counts.

Here's the difference though. At one venue, two of the CofC's and the cheif marshal were on the phone within days finding out if there was anything they could do to help or put right. To be fair, another Cheif Marshal did phone me, but that was Woolley, who's one of my best friends, so although he does count, he sort of doesn't (sorry Chris, you know what I mean). Nobody else from the British Hillclimb Championship has contacted me. I wonder when they'll want the trophy for Marshal of the Year back? To be honest, I'm beginning to wonder if they meant to give it to me in the first place.

More to the point, if this is how somebody who was supposed to be their example of doing things right is treated, what treatment is everybody else getting?

[Chris Hobson]

The subject of marshals representation at Council is a very political one. I will be detailing exactly what has happened over the past twelve months at the BMMC AGM and will then post the report on the Marshals club website. However, in a nutshell what has happened is that the MSA have blocked both George Copeland (the marshals rep on the Association of British Motor Racing clubs) and myself (elected rep for all the BMMC members) from being on Motorsports Council.

George and I presented to Council in February on behalf of ALL marshals and were offered the chance of a position on council. Since then we have tried every way we can to get that representation. The MSA seem to have a problem with this and have basically put their own rep in instead.

We had offered to run meetings with Chief marshals from all clubs at least twice per annum, to put web links in with all clubs, to circulate all registered marshals and many more activities.

We have set up a working group to look at ways of marshalling with fewer numbers, we have supported ViM and all of their initiatives, but the MSA still refuse to acknowledge our efforts.

What we do next is being discussed, but I would welcome your opinions and suggestions, either via this forum or via e-mail - bmmc.chair@btinternet.com.

I still feel we would be best placed to represent you - since we are simply volunteer officials ourselves and our only desire is to increase the numbers of marshals and improve their working conditions and we will fight to get genuine marshals representation at the highest levels in the sport.

More will certainly follow, but whatever happens we will continue to put forward your views, even if the MSA do not appreciate them.

Please pass this on to all marshals you know.

I await your comments.

Chris Hobson
National Chairman BMMC

[Dan Friel]

Chris,

Even though I'm no longer a member of the BMMC, what I have just read appals me. Your recent efforts though the BMMC are well known and I believed that the MSA may have begun to listen to "our" concerns. The picture you paint suggests the exact opposite, and it seems that they are seeking to limit marshals influence throughout motorsport.

No doubt there will be some fall out from this debacle. I hope your (and the BMMC's) efforts are rewarded (eventually).

[Dan Friel]

And..

Blackcrow, don't let some muppet ruin your hobby! This imbecile obviously doesn't know what effort you put into motorsport. And to the senior officers of the club (if they read this), surely it's not too late to inform the competitor of the long term consequences of his family members actions? I'm sure it would be extremely embarrassing for them to get a polite dressing down themselves..

[Woolley]

So the MSA don't want to hear from the chairman of the club that represents and supplies marshals? Not content with being completely unable to regulate British Motorsports, appointing a boss who runs the series which sets the worst example and not previously noticing that there were marshals beyond rallying, it seems they've set out to alienate us in the most obvious way.

Maybe we should all just take a year out and see what happens, other than at those places that really show they appreciate us.

Al, yes I understand what you mean - no worries. Dan has it right though. Don't let a couple of plonkers drive you away. There's a lot more than me hopes you make a swift return, and some senior members of my club have asked about you.

[Piglet]

Chris, I'm not sure what there is to say... that's such an appalling scenario.

[Gordon Knight]

Have just read Chris Hobson's message and I am stunned...I've read it
four times and still find it hard to believe what I have read.
I always felt that the MSA thought of us as "cannon fodder" and now they
have proved it.
The trouble is I don't know how to respond... if I decide that I've had
emough and call it a day then not only am I cutting off my nose to spite
my face, I am also failing to support Chris & George in their endeavours.

Chris/George I am 100% behind you and will support you in any way I can.
I await further developments & advice.

[JimW]

I thought I had lost the capacity to be surprised by the MSA but no; another triumph.

I hope that Chris and George realise that they have full support from so many marshals. And our thanks for spending your valuable time away from work and family in this pursuit.

Regards

Jim

[Startline Ed]

Chris' message portrays a rather worrying state of affairs with regards to marshals' representation within the MSA. Fortunately, I am not too worried by this because we as marshals have Chris & George in our corner doing their utmost to promote our interests.

Also I would like to echo previous comments in that Chris & George have my full support and thanks for their efforts.

Many thanks

Edward

[johngee]

I'm quite staggered and very disappointed to read Chris's posting, particularly as I rejoined the BMMC this year as a reflection of my support for what Chris and George were doing. I will, of course continue my support in the hope that some good sense will prevail but this would appear to be a very unhappy state of affairs. It could be construed that the initiative behind VIM is being totally negated by the attitude towards the representatves of the existing body of volunteers.

[Alan Crook]

Looks like Chris & George will just have to supply the bullets for "Whizzo" to fire.

I agree it would be nice to have either Chris or George to represent us but if this is not possible at least we have Barry Williams there to voice our views, which I`m sure he will do.