Silverstone Classic

[Peter Mallett]

Well on the basis that I am a paying customer it should be first come first served. If I have to wait to be selected just because I'm not running a Ferrari or something then **** it. I'll pull the entry and save some money.

A call to Masters next week when I'm home is needed methinks.

[midgetman]

Perhaps Masters could have a reference point on the web, a list of cars they have accepted and those on the reserve list. Then you could avoid the hassle of planning for the event if you're not getting in, and spectators could see if it was worth coming to watch?

[simon drabble]

Gentleman Drivers race at the Classic will always prioritize the better cars and to be honest they are right to take that stance. It is the only race where specceis are a consideration and in all due respect the paying public would prefer to see a Ferrari than an MGB. This is the reason Pre63 GT is watched by so many..
The costs are crazy and the circuit owners are going to shoot themselves in the foot if they continue ramping costs. Hobby racing is an imperfect science where the participant carries on doing it until such time they consider it poor bang for their buck. The principle difference between weekend warriors and professional teams doing modern stuff is that the weekend warrior is spending his own cash.

[Mike Bell]

Peter, I do not know if this year will be same as last two, as I havn't entered anything. For all I know they could have used same 'selection' process on Cobras, 'E' types as well!

[Ben Shuckburgh]

Originally Posted by Moosehead

Yeah, the entry fee stung a bit too, to say the least!! However, had a quick peek at the E-Type race and their entry fee is £900 for 1x 30min race!!!!!!

I thought this year would probably be my last opportunity to participate in this event before the cost was unacceptable so was looking forward to entering but looks like I'm out already. I'm sorry but 50 AppK Mustangs & Falcons plus a few others do not bear any reality to what was raced in the period which is what the regs say are the requirements. Its quite obvious that using the 'big engined' moniker the organisers are 'thinking' Yank V8 for the spectacle but they have to start thinking where most of these cars were raced in period, ie - America, and their tech regs were generally nothing like AppK. Missed opportunity :-(

Interesting point - What were the main differences in spec over there circa 1965?

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

Gentleman Drivers race at the Classic will always prioritize the better cars and to be honest they are right to take that stance. It is the only race where specceis are a consideration and in all due respect the paying public would prefer to see a Ferrari than an MGB. This is the reason Pre63 GT is watched by so many..
The costs are crazy and the circuit owners are going to shoot themselves in the foot if they continue ramping costs. Hobby racing is an imperfect science where the participant carries on doing it until such time they consider it poor bang for their buck. The principle difference between weekend warriors and professional teams doing modern stuff is that the weekend warrior is spending his own cash.

Simon,

I can accept that position if it says it on the entry form. If it doesn't then its first come, first served.

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Peter, I do not know if this year will be same as last two, as I havn't entered anything. For all I know they could have used same 'selection' process on Cobras, 'E' types as well!

As I said I'll call them when I get back next week.

[Moosehead]

Originally Posted by Ben Shuckburgh

Interesting point - What were the main differences in spec over there circa 1965?

As a starter they didn't run CR65's, generally they were running Goodyear Blue Spot/Point which are still available over there and somewhat cheaper than Dunlops.

As there was different championships / series a definitive spec is hard to say and that is my point. If you just take the two main series, SCCA and TransAm they ran they were not like AppK. Then you can start factoring in other countries such as Australia etc and they ran to different regs.

I just think its narrow minded to keep on this AppK route especially in this circumstance and putting my spectators hat on I would much rather see some different cars running different period spec. Ok, a certain spec make give someone an advantage but at least it would allow some variety. When these cars were in period the big battle was Ford V Chevy, Mustang versus Camaro, bet there won't be one Chevy on the grid.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by Moosehead

Yeah, the entry fee stung a bit too, to say the least!! However, had a quick peek at the E-Type race and their entry fee is £900 for 1x 30min race!!!!!!

.......:-(

I know where you can get an entry for a six hour race for that sort of money!!!!

[simon drabble]

as Camaro's didn't come out until late 66 I think its unlikely they would have raced pre66!! Appendix K in the UK or Europe is clearly the best benchmark for pre 66 - it creates a set of rules people will run to as other series are doing the same.
It would be more interesting to occassionally turn the clock back and make say 63 the cut off so you have a totally different grid - Jaguars, Cortina GT (not Lotuis Cortina's) mini's sunbeam's etc...

[Ben Shuckburgh]

I guess at least App K gives a clear benchmark Moosehead - you mention several different series and timeframes which might well make competitors less willing to enter if they can't be competitive - most of us like to compete against each other with at least nominally equal machinery.
If you can't have a policeable set of regs - the same for all - I can't imagine it being too popular with racers. Last years race at the Classic had one car running very fast to HSCC, not App K regs (legally) but it created a lot of ill feeling from some competitors who didn't seem to have read them properly. Surely you have to pick a moment/specification and stick to it? (there lies some of the skill of race/series organisers).

[Colin McKay]

Originally Posted by Moosehead

Yeah, the entry fee stung a bit too, to say the least!! However, had a quick peek at the E-Type race and their entry fee is £900 for 1x 30min race!!!!!!

E-types get 2 x 30 mins so a bargain, relatively speaking!

[rogerwills]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Simon,

I can accept that position if it says it on the entry form. If it doesn't then its first come, first served.



As I said I'll call them when I get back next week.

I think Masters and most other such series are by invitation. So it won't be first come, first served. They will look at all the entries and decide which to take to get the best grid.

I'm sure if you also do quite a few Masters events you end up having a better chance of getting accepted.

[Peter Mallett]

True. And I've entered others too. However it is, as they say, a business. Thus if I'm going to be dropped (or stand a chance of that) because my car isn't particularly special, I can save the £2k flight cost plus loss of earnings and do something another time somewhere else.

Like many I need to plan my year.

[Moosehead]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

as Camaro's didn't come out until late 66 I think its unlikely they would have raced pre66!! Appendix K in the UK or Europe is clearly the best benchmark for pre 66 - it creates a set of rules people will run to as other series are doing the same.
It would be more interesting to occassionally turn the clock back and make say 63 the cut off so you have a totally different grid - Jaguars, Cortina GT (not Lotuis Cortina's) mini's sunbeam's etc...

Simon, what (I'm poorly!) trying to say is why pre66? The race is entitled 'Big Engined Touring Cars', not 'Big engined Touring Cars made in 1965'. So why not open it up to some different cars that would make it so much more interesting to spectators. Other races cater for a mix of years so why not this one? Yes I know its pre66 so can include other years but its just so predictable. There could be a lot more variety on the grid if it was opened up to say the end of the '60's or even into the mid '70's if were just talking Yank cars.........hell, even Al could enter then

Ben, you're quite correct regarding sticking to a set period/ set of regs when the race is part of a series or championship but for a one off race surely it would be more fun to see or race against different cars? Regarding a policeable set of regs the CSCC's Swinging Sixties is very open (and even if some don't like the idea) it has proved so popular that for this year they have had to split the series in to two races as last year virtually every race was oversubscribed. I'm sure most of the entrants in each race were not expecting to win..................oh, hang on, maybe they were all just racing for fun.....perish the thought

The entrants in the other races that are multi year / era seem to have no problem with the concept that they cannot compete on even terms with the front running cars (I'm talking single seaters generally) so what is it with the Touring Car drivers. Perhaps the single seaters guys actually have an interest in their cars whereas the saloon guys don't and so just go out and buy the car thats at the pointy end of the grid to make them look good.

oops, sorry, must have jumped on the soapbox from elsewhere

[Ben Shuckburgh]

OK, I get that - particularly for one off "celebration" type races. I guess the important thing is that everyone knows what the parameters are.

[DaveGT6]

It seems that what Wayne (Moosehead) is endorsing is the approach that some of our European cousins adopt - is it the ASAVE? championship/series that runs to early '70's and brings a much wider cross section of cars to the grid?

[rogerwills]

Originally Posted by Moosehead

Simon, what (I'm poorly!) trying to say is why pre66? The race is entitled 'Big Engined Touring Cars', not 'Big engined Touring Cars made in 1965'. So why not open it up to some different cars that would make it so much more interesting to spectators. Other races cater for a mix of years so why not this one? Yes I know its pre66 so can include other years but its just so predictable. There could be a lot more variety on the grid if it was opened up to say the end of the '60's or even into the mid '70's if were just talking Yank cars.........hell, even Al could enter then

Ben, you're quite correct regarding sticking to a set period/ set of regs when the race is part of a series or championship but for a one off race surely it would be more fun to see or race against different cars? Regarding a policeable set of regs the CSCC's Swinging Sixties is very open (and even if some don't like the idea) it has proved so popular that for this year they have had to split the series in to two races as last year virtually every race was oversubscribed. I'm sure most of the entrants in each race were not expecting to win..................oh, hang on, maybe they were all just racing for fun.....perish the thought

The entrants in the other races that are multi year / era seem to have no problem with the concept that they cannot compete on even terms with the front running cars (I'm talking single seaters generally) so what is it with the Touring Car drivers. Perhaps the single seaters guys actually have an interest in their cars whereas the saloon guys don't and so just go out and buy the car thats at the pointy end of the grid to make them look good.

oops, sorry, must have jumped on the soapbox from elsewhere

If the grids are full with the App K cars then there seems little need to open it up to a wider specification. And it seems to be one of the races that is always very popular and the grid fills up quickly.

If it works, don't fix it.

Better to have a level playing field in terms of regs than a bunch of bizzas out there in my view. That is what App K does.

[Peter Mallett]

Thought you ran a Bizza.

From a spectator viewpoint I tend towards the wider spec approach. I'd love to see a few Boss Mustangs running around with Camaros, Trans Ams etc. But I also agree that pinning it down to a spec at least provides consistency for the competitor.

[Mike Bell]

'Problem', if it is one, with the Classic is that it is now perceived as the premium UK meeting for competitors after Goodwood, but without the mysterious entry route that seems more secret society than race meeting.

Am sure it would be easy therefore to fill an over 2 litre saloon grid with AppK spec cars and not need to open up for later or other spec versions, regardless of spectator appeal. As for GD- it would probably be swamped with Bs and post 63 Granturas if entry was completely open as it is the only race at the meeting for them. As it is their 'flagship' UK GD race, I can see why the organiser reserves right to select from multiple entries of same model cars to get a more varied grid. Nothing to do with them not being special enough- just too many of them! Having said that, putting in an early entry and supporting the organiser at other events as well hopefully does put you nearer top of the list.

[Peter Mallett]

My gripe is that it doesn't say that on the entry form. My money has been taken for that and two races at Brands. If they tell me I'm in a selection process I'll go elsewhere. It costs me serious wonga to take time off. If my money isn't good enough then I have to consider my options.

[Mike Bell]

Quite understand your point. I'm sure last year we were told via email or some release from the office that there would be a delay in confirming entries, but as nothing to that effect this year maybe it is different and history isn't being repeated. Never know, you may be confirmed already, Peter! (Fingers crossed for you and Dave btw)

[Peter Horsman]

As more and more cars creep out of the woodwork, there'll be more and more selection from the owners willing and able to pay higher and higher entry fees. This should surprise no-one, but will frustrate and annoy the more grass roots enthusiast.

[Peter Mallett]

Well I'm not complaining about the entry costs, it's something I've always wanted to do. It's one reason why I built the car. Perhaps I should have built an E Type except I don't like them that much.

[zefarelly]

here we go again . . . its like an 8 track!

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Well I'm not complaining about the entry costs, it's something I've always wanted to do. It's one reason why I built the car. Perhaps I should have built an E Type except I don't like them that much.

Peter what have you built?
In respect to the entry fees in previous years Masters have only taken money for the Classic when they confirm your grid slot.
In respect to the 70's muscle cars I totally agree they would be great to see but as there is no premium series for them I doubt many are out there as they dont really have anywhere to go as a result something like the Classic is much better to go for low lying fruit and get a good grid.