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19 Jul 2012, 03:32 (Ref:3108342) | #1 | |
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A Question
Hi
This is my first post although I have been a lurker for a while. I am not a traditional Motor Sport fan and have no background in the sport, but was lucky enough to be invited to a couple of Corporate suites at Bathurst and Indy and loved it and have been an avid follower since. As I said I have no technical knowledge but am in awe of the machines and the racing. That being said I wonder if someone would be kind enough to answer a question for me. Would it not make for a better race if Pit Stops were not allowed during a safety car period. It seems to me (and I am happy to be corrected) that a major part of the race is strategy and managing fuel and tyres. If pit lane was closed during a safety car and teams raced according to a plan is it not possible that that some of the slower cars could gain advantage via smart strategies. I hope that is not to much of a dumb question go easy on me if it is. Thanks |
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19 Jul 2012, 03:41 (Ref:3108346) | #2 | |||
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Nice one, Centurion! |
19 Jul 2012, 04:35 (Ref:3108357) | #3 | |
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Let me explain the key problem (forgeting safety issues on why the safety car is out there)
Car 1 and Car 2 are half a lap ahead of the field one behind the other on a similar strategy. Car 1 pits and loses half a lap, but remains 2nd on the track. The safety car comes out and Car 1 can now close up onto the back of Car 2 (excluding any lapped cars) your suggestions means Car 2 cannot pit under the safety car. when the safety car go back in car 2 pits and loses half a lap, not only that but all the cars that were half a lap behind are now in front of it. So car 2 copes a massive penalty, we dont really want that With the current way Cars 1 and 2 still remain at the front and neither car is penalised other than the cars behind catching up |
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19 Jul 2012, 05:43 (Ref:3108372) | #4 | |||
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19 Jul 2012, 05:52 (Ref:3108377) | #5 | |
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19 Jul 2012, 06:07 (Ref:3108386) | #6 | |
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Thanks for that peckstar.
I understand what you are saying, but given that every car has to pit at some stage would it not even out over the course of a race. |
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19 Jul 2012, 06:14 (Ref:3108390) | #7 | ||
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at the moment they work on two key strategies (usally explained at the start of the telecast) pit early say for a half tank or pit late for a half tank closing the pits woudl benefit the car who pitted early as they would only have one more stop, as opposed to the guy who pitted late who would have two. as a result all drivers would move to the pit early strategy, thus reducing strategy in a race Last years bathurst saw GT pit just before a SC, lowndes pitted during it (same lap) Closing the pits would have put craig half a lap down thus robbing us of the great finish we had |
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19 Jul 2012, 06:38 (Ref:3108394) | #8 | |
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Thanks for taking the time to explain that.
Cheers |
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19 Jul 2012, 06:53 (Ref:3108399) | #9 | |
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It works in NASCAR, but typically in NASCAR it is easier to pass, plus they then open the pit anyway under Safety car.
But definately closing the pit in a v8 situation would reduce strategy as drivers would tend to stick to the same strategy |
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19 Jul 2012, 07:13 (Ref:3108405) | #10 | ||
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Why not fill them with fuel, put a set tyres on, start the race and then say first to the checkers wins. THe race would have to be of a distance that neither fuel or tyres would make the distance. Just let em go and not organise when and if pit stops should be taken. Some times the safety car would work against you, sometimes it would work with you. Just let them race.
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19 Jul 2012, 07:19 (Ref:3108407) | #11 | ||
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But smart (actually you dont even have to be smart) people can simply work out that fuel last X laps and so they need to fill X times to make it to the end. Its simple maths thus smart people work work out a strategy and the ones that dont come last |
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19 Jul 2012, 10:15 (Ref:3108478) | #12 | |||
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But sorry, hate the whole CPS rot, give them back their big tanks, fill them up & let them race, close the pits for safety cars & LET THEM RACE, I don't care about who has the clever people working out their best "window", pass on the track. The rare event that pecky describes is just bad luck, better than double stacking. |
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19 Jul 2012, 10:17 (Ref:3108480) | #13 | |||
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Tyres would be similar as well. If there's one supplier, make it simple and provide one, harder compound, that can do the job. From there you can stop as many times as you like, it's up to you. One scenario may be, that the front runners in the good cars will try to go all the way on one set of tyres, but a car say, qualifying 6th, would go for a more aggressive strategy and pit for new tyres sometime during the race, maybe twice. Depending on what happens, that may put pressure on the leaders to keep their lead. It wouldn't happen all the time, but that's the way I'd go. |
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19 Jul 2012, 10:29 (Ref:3108487) | #14 | ||
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Even with the bigger full tanks they would still not make the distance on Sunday Dont you like pit stops? That rare event happens just about every time we have a safety car Why close the pits at all You have failed to show any reason for it Why is it better than double stacking? Double stacking loses about 10 seconds on the track, closing the pits loses about 40 seconds, I know which one i would prefer |
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19 Jul 2012, 10:56 (Ref:3108501) | #15 | |
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It would be nice to see more passing on track. Maybe a bit less downforce. Part of the attraction of Nascar for me is that there are more competitive cars, and more passing on track. Even pit lane at nascar events are wider enabling a bit of a race off pit road, even with a speed limit.
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19 Jul 2012, 11:02 (Ref:3108503) | #16 | ||
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I dont think we really want passes on every lap, In recent years we have seen many races when top 3 positions have changed in the last two or three laps But as you pointed out alot is about track construction, and we dont construct too many new tracks in Australia |
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19 Jul 2012, 11:07 (Ref:3108506) | #17 | |
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I was at the nascar event at Phoenix last November, and it was a great experience. One thing I found interesting was that the cars didn't seem as fast in person as they do on tv. Our V8 supercars look every bit as quick if not more, in person than on tv. I like with nascar, that a bad qualifying result does not mean your day is done. Thats what I'd like to see in our series.
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19 Jul 2012, 11:42 (Ref:3108533) | #18 | ||
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Well, say have a 400k race on the Sunday, if you can make it on one set of tyres, so be it and if you have to have 1 or two stops for fuel OK, but trying to alter the races by having pit stops that are not necessary, and who cares if they come in on the first lap of the last, just let them race, and get rid of the whoever it is that handles the penalties for rubbing and pushing and put someone there that is not afraid to let it get a little bit physical. You punt me off today, look out for tomorrow I punt you off. More tough racing, not the pussy footing that is going on now. Any way that is what I think. I have got more dents in my car from the woolworths car park than half the Supercars, have so far this season.
PS for some good racing give the back half of the field bridgestone tyres, that are about 1 and a bit seconds a lap quicker that the Dunlop, then let em loose. |
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19 Jul 2012, 12:46 (Ref:3108557) | #19 | ||
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Some people have different opnions. And you know what, that's allowed. So stop being so aggressive to each other and discuss the subject. We have a new poster, so let's not put them off with the same old same old.
I've removed the offending posts. Thank you. Last edited by Woolley; 19 Jul 2012 at 12:52. |
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Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other. |
20 Jul 2012, 07:28 (Ref:3108898) | #20 | ||
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I apologies, even though they agreed that would rather watch a different form of motorsport. I apologies to the new poster who asked a fair and valid question and which i replied in a fair and balanced way for possibly putting you off posting in ten tenths ever again. I am suitable chastised. |
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20 Jul 2012, 08:10 (Ref:3108909) | #21 | |
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pekstar
No apology necessary. I thank you for taking the time to answer. I enjoy reading and understand there will be different opinions I am learning a bit about the sport. Cheers |
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21 Jul 2012, 01:10 (Ref:3109311) | #22 | ||
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Anyway, I was dumb enough to be listening to The Stick Shift this morning. They were talking about problems in the pits with double stacking and what could be done about it. The first thought I had was "Why don't you have races that don't require the need to go into the pits?" Radical idea, I know.
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21 Jul 2012, 01:23 (Ref:3109312) | #23 | ||
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Name one serious motorsport (4 wheel on bitumen) which doesn't have pit stops? |
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21 Jul 2012, 01:58 (Ref:3109324) | #24 | |||
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I cannot name one. Having stated that, all of motorsport has been dumbed down the last 20 years, with jibberish rules regarding tyres and mandatory pitstops. So, I could question if there's any serious motorsport anywhere. |
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21 Jul 2012, 02:31 (Ref:3109330) | #25 | ||
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haven't you (not a personal attack, just a question to you) in fact dumbed it down by asking that they have a tyre that last for an hour even though the tyre will be well past its best and the racing will be processional and people will think that the racing is boring and so therefore not attend? We used to do that in the v8 series, but the series realised that it wasn't a good formula for racing V8 supercars do not have mandatory pit stops, they also only have dodgy rules regarding tyres in 6 (or so) rounds. (and i agree with you on the that point, I dont think the tyre rules are working in F1 either) you said you are going to sandown this weekend? notice the size of the crowd and notice the style of racing is more what you are requesting. Crowds want more and motorsport at the top level is partly about giving the crowds what they are looking for in racing, otherwise the sponsors leave. |
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