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Old 19 Nov 2017, 13:42 (Ref:3781488)   #2461
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It's actually pretty easy, get rid of Ferrari.
Or even easier, get rid of F1
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Old 19 Nov 2017, 13:44 (Ref:3781489)   #2462
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ASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
F1 is more than just Ferrari, quit being dramatic.
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Old 19 Nov 2017, 14:53 (Ref:3781492)   #2463
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F1 is more than just Ferrari, quit being dramatic.
I don't think there is anything being overdramatic here.
Both Ferrari and F1 have been a massive part of each other's history. So much so, that neither organisation knows how they would fare without each other.

Would F1 be willing to see Ferrari leave?
Can Ferrari stomach walking away into the unknown?
The people at the top of both don't want to be the one to force the issue and see their own fate suffer as a result.
At the moment, it would take a failure of either organisation to see them part. And it looks more likely that an alternative to F1 might emerge one day, unless F1 makes the right rule changes and becomes that alternative to what it is today.
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Old 19 Nov 2017, 15:14 (Ref:3781496)   #2464
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ASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridASCII Man should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
A manufacturer shouldn't be considered so important to F1, so much that said manufacturer uses/abuses this sense of self importance to keep bullying the sport into doing what it wants to do. I don't think its right to continue such an abusive relationship, and both should cut ties as soon as possible.
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Old 19 Nov 2017, 16:10 (Ref:3781505)   #2465
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A manufacturer shouldn't be considered so important to F1, so much that said manufacturer uses/abuses this sense of self importance to keep bullying the sport into doing what it wants to do. I don't think its right to continue such an abusive relationship, and both should cut ties as soon as possible.
I think manipulative might be more appropriate than abusive. Though having said that, have Ferrari actually benefited from any of this posturing? The last time a Ferrari driver won the WDC was 10 years ago and the last time they won the WCC was 9 years a go. Since then, despite having hired Alonso and now Vettel, they are still playing second fiddle.

Maybe Ferrari should be looking at themselves, rather than trying to manipulate F1 for their own ends because so far, it hasn't worked.
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Old 20 Nov 2017, 13:01 (Ref:3781687)   #2466
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Once upon a time Ferrari sold road cars to finance the racing team, but that was the past Ferrari no longer needs F1 to sell cars, maybe electric supercars to replace gt3 in the near future so how relevant is F1 to a non-sentimental
forward looking Ferrari.
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Old 20 Nov 2017, 17:38 (Ref:3781743)   #2467
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on one hand, i am very curious to see how F1 could reinvent itself in a post Ferrari era.

on the other hand, if Ferrari leave and take the tifosi global audience with them, then i suspect my local broadcaster will end up canceling/not renewing their local broadcast rights due to a massive decline in audience numbers.

winning and losing at the same time...my life as an F1 fan!
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Old 21 Nov 2017, 01:36 (Ref:3781867)   #2468
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Once upon a time Ferrari sold road cars to finance the racing team, but that was the past Ferrari no longer needs F1 to sell cars, maybe electric supercars to replace gt3 in the near future so how relevant is F1 to a non-sentimental
forward looking Ferrari.

If we take the possibility that Ferrari could walk away from F1 for any number of reasons, why is it logical to impoverish the sport in the mean time to try and keep Ferrari on board.
Make decisions for the good of the sport and all the entrants, Ferrari can decide whether to stay or go, making the rest of the entrants sponsor Ferrari and Mercedes is just plain wrong.
Keep your audience with good racing, and keep your entrants with fair revenue distribution, the sport will go from strength to strength with or without Ferrari.
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Old 22 Nov 2017, 18:21 (Ref:3782240)   #2469
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Liberty could give the manufacturers a choice;

1 Either we keep the current engines, but:
– At much lower cost to the customer teams
– Engines are picked by the FIA from a random pool of engines
– Mapping must be equal
– Each manufacturers is forced to (be able to) supply all teams minus the numbers of other engine supplies (so currently that would be 7). Preference is based on last years championship standing. This is to avoid teams like Red Bull or McLaren to be stuck without a competitive engine.


2 Or, a rule set based upon what Liberty has suggested, enabling independent engine suppliers to successfully enter F1.


They can than choose which of the two they want, but it both case their stranglehold on the grid will be largely gone.
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Old 22 Nov 2017, 22:40 (Ref:3782283)   #2470
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2 Or, a rule set based upon what Liberty has suggested, enabling independent engine suppliers to successfully enter F1.
I would expand the last part just a bit. I think it also goes beyond independent suppliers. Other manufactures who might be interested watch the bloodbath from the sidelines. How secret sauce solutions rule and all who come face a long uphill climb to success (if they ever are able to climb to the top). Why would they want to spend a lot of money to potentially be the next Honda?

A less complex, less costly solution might being in other manufactures.

Richard
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Old 23 Nov 2017, 08:25 (Ref:3782376)   #2471
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I would expand the last part just a bit. I think it also goes beyond independent suppliers. Other manufactures who might be interested watch the bloodbath from the sidelines. How secret sauce solutions rule and all who come face a long uphill climb to success (if they ever are able to climb to the top). Why would they want to spend a lot of money to potentially be the next Honda?

A less complex, less costly solution might being in other manufactures.

Richard

You're quite right. A move away from the current engines could indeed attract more manufacturers.


I've thought about it a bit more and concluded that below would quite work well. Someone being stuck last year with a bad engine (like McLaren) would not have a way out of that situation in the below proposal.

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Originally Posted by Taxi645 View Post
Each manufacturers is forced to (be able to) supply all teams minus the numbers of other engine supplies (so currently that would be 7). Preference is based on last years championship standing. This is to avoid teams like Red Bull or McLaren to be stuck without a competitive engine.

So I would change it to:

Each manufacturers is forced to (be able to) supply all teams minus the numbers of other engine supplies (so currently that would be 7). A team can pay more than the limit to get a better performing engine (which the manufacturer is obliged to supply), however everything above the much lower maximum engine fee won't go straight to the supplying manufacturer. Part of it would and part would go to either general revenue (and thus be distributed as usual) or directly be divided among teams or manufacturers.


Consequences:
- Manufactures can't keep good teams (Red Bull, McLaren from getting good engines)
- There is a lower limit to how much is feasible to spend on engine development
- Teams with weak financial health can get a cheap engine.
- If the money paid above the max engine cost is (partly) redistributed among manufacturers new manufacturers or ones lagging behind are persuaded to join/stay and be successful.
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Old 23 Nov 2017, 21:40 (Ref:3782496)   #2472
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Seriously what's wrong with A being the hardest to G being the softest.

For any given weekend the tyre info graphic would be something like

Click image for larger version

Name:	tyres.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	22.6 KB
ID:	50734
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Old 23 Nov 2017, 22:39 (Ref:3782505)   #2473
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Skam85 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Well said.

Speaking of rule changes, as Lewis correctly pointed out - this is the last race weekend where the cars are aesthetically pleasing (for the time being).

I'm sure the designers and regs will eventually mould the cars back into being pleasant on the eye, but until then, one last weekend where we can see the driver's helmets unimpeded!
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Old 23 Nov 2017, 23:16 (Ref:3782523)   #2474
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Seriously what's wrong with A being the hardest to G being the softest.

For any given weekend the tyre info graphic would be something like

Attachment 50734
I think part of this is down to what is perceived as the general public's view of what sounds quick.

Hard tyres sound boring. Soft sounds quick.
So having more than 50% of the tyres being 'quick' makes F1 cars faster.
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Old 23 Nov 2017, 23:20 (Ref:3782525)   #2475
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Seriously what's wrong with A being the hardest to G being the softest.

For any given weekend the tyre info graphic would be something like

Attachment 50734
Does F1 really need all those tyre compounds? IndyCar uses two and the racing is better.
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