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Old 14 Sep 2010, 14:03 (Ref:2759265)   #26
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Ferrari were right to consider Alonso a better option than Raikkonen but that doesn't mean that Raikkonen can't do a good job for another team.
Ferrari didn't just consider Alonso to be a better option than Raikkonen. They considered Massa to be a better option too - and that having no idea about how Massa would fare after coming back from his injury. Raikkonen has only managed to beat the most inadequate of team-mates since winning the WDC (Badoer and Fisichella over a limited number of races), so would he actually get near Kubica, who is rapidly making Renault 'his' team?

(By the way, I've added a 'rumours' tag and a question mark to the thread title, because this is definitely not a done deal.)
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 14:04 (Ref:2759266)   #27
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Super Hans is saying anything I would want to say, except that Kimi's the least troublesome team-mate anyone could have, so I don't see RobKub having a problem there. I think they'd combine well together.

Having said all that, I'm not sure it will happen.
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 14:24 (Ref:2759274)   #28
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Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl View Post
Ferrari didn't just consider Alonso to be a better option than Raikkonen. They considered Massa to be a better option too - and that having no idea about how Massa would fare after coming back from his injury.
Raikkonen making way for Alonso was like Schumacher making way for Raikkonen. Ferrari like to have a superstar in one seat and Massa in the other. I don't think they necessarily believe that Massa is better than Kimi.
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 14:32 (Ref:2759277)   #29
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Raikkonen making way for Alonso was like Schumacher making way for Raikkonen. Ferrari like to have a superstar in one seat and Massa in the other. I don't think they necessarily believe that Massa is better than Kimi.
Plus keeping Massa was very much a loyalty move after Hungary.
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 14:47 (Ref:2759280)   #30
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Raikkonen making way for Alonso was like Schumacher making way for Raikkonen. Ferrari like to have a superstar in one seat and Massa in the other. I don't think they necessarily believe that Massa is better than Kimi.
Perhaps they don't, but then over the two and a half seasons they were team-mates, it's fair to say that Massa comfortably had the better of him for one and was matching him before Hungary last year. Raikkonen didn't stomp all over Massa in the way that we've seen Schumacher, Alonso and Hamilton do to team-mates in recent years. And I'm dubious about the idea of him as one of 'the greats'. He won his only title because his rivals were too busy squabbling with each other to notice him. Admittedly he and Ferrari called everything right in the second half of the season, but it was a gift from McLaren.
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 15:52 (Ref:2759311)   #31
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Raikkonen making way for Alonso was like Schumacher making way for Raikkonen. Ferrari like to have a superstar in one seat and Massa in the other. I don't think they necessarily believe that Massa is better than Kimi.
The evidence would lead us to believe that they did. Schumacher retired out of contract... Kimi had to be bought out of his... in essence Kimi was fired from Ferrari.
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 15:58 (Ref:2759317)   #32
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Raikkonen has only managed to beat the most inadequate of team-mates since winning the WDC (Badoer and Fisichella over a limited number of races), so would he actually get near Kubica, who is rapidly making Renault 'his' team?
'sactly. the way that kubica is totally involved in the way the development is going and has the entire team working for him is mostly a work of evil genius even alonso would be proud of, but that it makes it tricky for anyone but the most submissive of teammates to do well in the environment. i'm not sure if petrov and kubica like the car to have the same handling characteristics but if kimi and kubica liked the car to behave in opposite ways you'd have a very effective kubica and a raikkonen in such a sulk that even my gran would be a more effective driver. and she indicates left and turns right.

slight exaggeration maybe but it's team kubica and that'll be even more apparent next season when he's had a real opportunity to influence things from start to finish.

(anyone in doubt of the way that kubica is a hardcore driver should seek interviews with renault personnel that mention the guy. there was one on autosport.com in particular a few months back that made me respect the way that petrov has handled the season. edit to add - this one here in particular)

Last edited by bella; 14 Sep 2010 at 16:12.
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 16:21 (Ref:2759324)   #33
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Ferrari has traditionally been happy with hiring mediocre journeyman type drivers for their second car in recent years, think Irvine, Rubens and Massa.
Mercedes have gone down that route now too.
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 16:47 (Ref:2759332)   #34
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The evidence would lead us to believe that they did. Schumacher retired out of contract... Kimi had to be bought out of his... in essence Kimi was fired from Ferrari.
you could tell that Kimi wasn't motivated enough to do another year with Ferrari
I wouldn't call that firing because of a lack of talent

Kimi is one of the most talented boys we've seen recent years, it just sucks that he lacks motivation from time to time
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 17:14 (Ref:2759341)   #35
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Indeed. But you wouldn't buy a Bugatti Veyron if you couldn't get it to start for half the year, so why would you employ Kimi Raikkonen if his head is only in the game for half a season?
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 18:12 (Ref:2759363)   #36
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Indeed. But you wouldn't buy a Bugatti Veyron if you couldn't get it to start for half the year, so why would you employ Kimi Raikkonen if his head is only in the game for half a season?
Is there a *holding one's head in despair* smilie? If so please insert here.
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 18:20 (Ref:2759372)   #37
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Great news! But where will Webber go?!
Nowhere.

Meh, not fussed. After a year out of F1 and no experience of driving with full tanks, Kimi will be rusty I believe. He wasn't really that good in the last few races of his career in '09, and I think with rallying and Formula One being two completely different ends of the spectrum in terms of racing, he won't be keeping Kubica awake at night.

The team have already admitted they aren't exactly swimming in money, so hiring Kimi would be a needless risk in my view. Petrov's improving all the time, and I feel it's important for F1 to have a Russian driver in the sport. You only have to look at the surge of interest in Russia to realise what an impact he's had.

Kimi's a kad been I'm afaird. I'll probably get flamed by Kimi fans now.
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 18:23 (Ref:2759373)   #38
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Kimi's a kad been I'm afaird. I'll probably get flamed by Kimi fans now.
I'd flame you if I knew what a kad been was
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 19:18 (Ref:2759414)   #39
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Appologies. Typo. *Had been.
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 19:27 (Ref:2759424)   #40
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you could tell that Kimi wasn't motivated enough to do another year with Ferrari
I wouldn't call that firing because of a lack of talent

Kimi is one of the most talented boys we've seen recent years, it just sucks that he lacks motivation from time to time
He wasn't fired because he lacked talent, that's for sure. He is very talented, I've been privileged to see that at close quarters during his karting days. Kimi at Ferrari was not the Kimi I know... I don't know what he was at, but as has been said already, he wasn't giving his all there. That's why he was replaced and justifiably so in my opinion. His WRC performances have been much more the Kimi of old I'm glad to say. Sure he hasn't had results yet, but he's been quick and spectacular with it.

For Kimi F1 is the past and WRC is the future. I hope he stays where he is and develops into a Rallying Great.
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 19:32 (Ref:2759430)   #41
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koper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridkoper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
How about Kimi to Renault and Petrov to Lotus together with engines.
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 19:55 (Ref:2759448)   #42
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How about Kimi to Renault and Petrov to Lotus together with engines.
The way I see it is Petrov and Kovalainen to trade places, have a look on the lotus to use renault lumps thread
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 19:57 (Ref:2759452)   #43
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Is there a *holding one's head in despair* smilie? If so please insert here.
I'm afraid I just can't get excited about the prospect of a Raikkonen return. I don't think the sport has missed him this year at all, just as it didn't miss TGF when he retired.

I dare say that if Renault do let Petrov go, Bernie will make sure he's looked after. After all, hasn't he been making noises about a Russian Grand Prix?
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 20:10 (Ref:2759457)   #44
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...
He wasn't really that good in the last few races of his career in '09, and I think with rallying and Formula One being two completely different ends of the spectrum in terms of racing, he won't be keeping Kubica awake at night....
What? He was driving exceptionally well with a real dog of a car, Ferrari said that he actually drove quicker than what was possible with that car in several of the races, for example at Spa. You have to remember that the 2009 Ferrari was a really bad car, and that they stopped developing it halfway through the season
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 20:33 (Ref:2759470)   #45
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What? He was driving exceptionally well with a real dog of a car, Ferrari said that he actually drove quicker than what was possible with that car in several of the races, for example at Spa. You have to remember that the 2009 Ferrari was a really bad car, and that they stopped developing it halfway through the season
Seeing as Massa was ahead of him in the championship, it must make him the greatest ever...
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 20:36 (Ref:2759473)   #46
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Seeing as Massa was ahead of him in the championship, it must make him the greatest ever...
Massa wasnt ahead of him in the last few races in 2009, he wasnt even driving so I have no idea what youre talking about
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 20:36 (Ref:2759474)   #47
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I don't think anyone would claim that Raikkonen is the greatest ever. I rate the guy as high as anyone, but even I'd have to admit that he's no Alain Prost.
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 20:51 (Ref:2759482)   #48
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Massa wasnt ahead of him in the last few races in 2009, he wasnt even driving so I have no idea what youre talking about
I would imagine he means before Massa's accident, when he was indeed ahead of Raikkonen in the championship standings.
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 20:54 (Ref:2759483)   #49
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most races before the accident, they were quite equal on pace
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Old 14 Sep 2010, 21:12 (Ref:2759492)   #50
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That's one of many reasons why Massa's accident was a real shame - we didn't get to see how he fared against Raikkonen over another full season. If he had beaten him again, would people still clamour for Raikkonen's return, I wonder?
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