V8 SuperTourers in NZ - 'Car Of Tomorrow'

[on_to_it]

I thought my point was clear enough. Any drivers signing session I've ever attended (Indy Cars, V8 Supercars and local series) had drivers competing in an existing series meeting their fans, signing posters, talking about the racing etc. To me, drivers should first earn the respect of the fans by racing in the class they represent. You might call it Mana. Anything less is a rort! This proposed class has one prototype, hasn't run a race yet and might not yet. On top of that, the guys running this ship appear to have made a lot of fairly powerful enemies in a sport that isn't big enough in this country to have this sort of disharmony. And that's just wrong!

[andy97]

Just for clarity, can someone confirm if the new NZ V8 is a spaceframe (with a choice of relevant Ford/ Holden engines & appropriate panels), whilst the NZ ST is a monocoque (with a spec LS7 engine & a choice of panels to represent a variety of cars, is that basically right??

[MarioNZ]

I'd call it promotion, something that the SuperTourers so far seem to have a good handle on. When I was there on Saturday there seemed to be no shortage of people queing up for said posters so I can only assume there was demand for them? You obviously have your opinions but I personally cannot see how any of these drivers signing posters at a race meeting is acceptable but when doing so to promote and generate interest in a future event it is not Your reasoning seems to suggest that there should be no promotion or leveraging of the people involved until there are successful race meetings happening...you can't have the latter unless you do the former. One thing I do get the feeling they have grasped is that the people/personalities are as (if not more) important as the cars. NASCAR and Supercars have got this bit right and fans tend to follow driver first, car second.
I had a quick look at the new NZV8 car, it was quick mainly because although the car looked nice there was no one of 'interest' to me on the stand except to watch Clint Brown rah rah for a few moments in front of the camera.

[MarioNZ]

Originally Posted by andy97

Just for clarity, can someone confirm if the new NZ V8 is a spaceframe (with a choice of relevant Ford/ Holden engines & appropriate panels), whilst the NZ ST is a monocoque (with a spec LS7 engine & a choice of panels to represent a variety of cars, is that basically right??

That's basically it as I understand it (emphasis on the basic)

[Southern Man]

When you hear stories of young drivers being told that this series will get them a factory drive and that there has been no series sponsors announced or no series meeting structure announced and no TV program and media support package announced etc one can't help but think that Team Kiwi is the mastermind behind all this

[brown dog]

Both cars are spaceframes with the appropriate body panels nailed on.

A pity NZV8's couldn't get anyone better than Clint Brown to promote their new product. I threw out some mouldy cheese from the fridge the other day that was fresher than he is..........
I really feel for these guys, I do think they have been screwed big time.

As far as the signing sessions go, I can see your point OTI, but I guess this is just clever leveraging by V8ST's off existing series and their respective "superstars" to try to promote a new product, a little underhand maybe but it obviously works. And when it comes to posters, punters would form a queue to a signing session for dwarfs racing miniature horses if the posters were free!


The V8ST's appear to have the jump already with "the car" and the driver lineup already sorted. But there is now a big question mark hanging over whether they can actually use "the car" as the other side is claiming it belongs to them?? A series has been announced but it will only run at two tracks, and unlikely to become a support race for V8SC in the immediate future. There will be no "national status" and a promoter/owner/organiser with a long reputation as a rogue. There is no announcement yet of a major sponsor, and many questions yet to answered, such as will Holden Motorsport allow the use of the V8SC body panels, will Ford give their blessing to put Ford panels on a GM engined car etc. etc.

The other series retains the national status, and its current major sponsor, has a "new" car that has been hastily built to put on a good front for the media, but appears to have lost the demon car, and many of its "star" drivers.

The gloves will be well and truly off now between the two series to get any traction they possibly can. Unfortunately there won't be a good outcome for both sides, and possibly neither. The ****fight is far from over!

[Biggy G]

Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but at least read some things before stating a fact that is already out of date, latest schedule for the Supertourers put them at four tracks over their 7 rounds.

Sprint Championship

Round 1: 17-19 February – Hampton Downs Motorsport Park, North Waikato

Round 2: 30 March – 1 April – Powerbuilt Tools Raceway, Christchurch

Round 3: 27-29 April – Manfeild, Fielding

Round 4: 18-20 May – Hampton Downs Motorsport Park, North Waikato

Endurance Championship

Round 5: 10-12 August – Taupo Motorsport Park, Taupo

Round 6: 21-23 September – Hampton Downs Motorsport Park, North Waikato

Round 7: 26-28 October – Final, Powerbuilt Tools Raceway, Christchurch


Also over the weekend I see they have confirmed the NZ Honda Cup as one of their supports at Round 1, running alongside the CMC.

[MacrosNZ]

Originally Posted by brown dog

A series has been announced but it will only run at two tracks,

The website has put Taupo and Manfield as races too.

EDIT: You bet me to it BG!

[brown dog]

Originally Posted by Biggy G

Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but at least read some things before stating a fact that is already out of date, latest schedule for the Supertourers put them at four tracks over their 7 rounds.

Okay I stand corrected! Lets hope they still have a car they can race at all of those tracks then!

[harcey]

Originally Posted by Biggy G

Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but at least read some things before stating a fact that is already out of date, latest schedule for the Supertourers put them at four tracks over their 7 rounds.

Sprint Championship

Round 1: 17-19 February – Hampton Downs Motorsport Park, North Waikato

Round 2: 30 March – 1 April – Powerbuilt Tools Raceway, Christchurch

Round 3: 27-29 April – Manfeild, Fielding

Round 4: 18-20 May – Hampton Downs Motorsport Park, North Waikato

Endurance Championship

Round 5: 10-12 August – Taupo Motorsport Park, Taupo

Round 6: 21-23 September – Hampton Downs Motorsport Park, North Waikato

Round 7: 26-28 October – Final, Powerbuilt Tools Raceway, Christchurch


Also over the weekend I see they have confirmed the NZ Honda Cup as one of their supports at Round 1, running alongside the CMC.

No deals have been done with Manfeild or taupo---and no listings on their forward website calenders.
every one has a 'wish list'

[Biggy G]

Manfield website doesn't have the BNT NZV8's either, dun dun duhhhhhh.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by MarioNZ

I'd call it promotion...

I'd say more 'posturing' than promotion.

Originally Posted by MarioNZ

Your reasoning seems to suggest that there should be no promotion or leveraging of the people involved until there are successful race meetings happening...

Not at all, promotion is very important. But I think an old phrase applies here ; You have to "earn your stripes". I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Speedwayracer44]

Sounds like an interesting battle in the weekend and I hear ST sold plenty of tickets but both parties apparently have no ownership in the IP of the chassis. The manufacturer who designed it and built it is the owner so maybe both parties should save their legal funds to go and buy it from him if they want to throw their ego's around.

[FraserGT]

Originally Posted by Speedwayracer44

both parties apparently have no ownership in the IP of the chassis. The manufacturer who designed it and built it is the owner so maybe both parties should save their legal funds to go and buy it from him if they want to throw their ego's around.

As with any decent train smash it never boils down to one simple point. The IP is apparently just one thing.

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by brown dog

A pity NZV8's couldn't get anyone better than Clint Brown to promote their new product.

Couldn't agree with you more! One suspects there's a very good reason that Clint Brown is neither widely seen, nor heard on our airwaves... I'd suggest that aside from being horrifically cheesey, it's bascially because he's not particularly popular.

Originally Posted by brown dog

A series has been announced but it will only run at two tracks, and unlikely to become a support race for V8SC in the immediate future. There will be no "national status" and a promoter/owner/organiser with a long reputation as a rogue. There is no announcement yet of a major sponsor, and many questions yet to answered, such as will Holden Motorsport allow the use of the V8SC body panels, will Ford give their blessing to put Ford panels on a GM engined car etc. etc.
The other series retains the national status, and its current major sponsor, has a "new" car that has been hastily built to put on a good front for the media, but appears to have lost the demon car, and many of its "star" drivers.
The gloves will be well and truly off now between the two series to get any traction they possibly can. Unfortunately there won't be a good outcome for both sides, and possibly neither. The ****fight is far from over!

Well said.....
I suspect neither side is going to "win" and the harder the fight gets, the less likely we'll see the two sides get together to work out a solution that's going to best for me, the casual motorsport fan.

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by Chappelli

Couldn't agree with you more! One suspects there's a very good reason that Clint Brown is neither widely seen, nor heard on our airwaves... I'd suggest that aside from being horrifically cheesey, it's bascially because he's not particularly popular.

that was a very nice way to put it............. i do hope he never gets to do anything for TV in regards to Rally NZ ever again........ his ignorance and comments are an embarrasment to the country

Originally Posted by Chappelli

Well said.....
I suspect neither side is going to "win" and the harder the fight gets, the less likely we'll see the two sides get together to work out a solution that's going to best for me, the casual motorsport fan.

Petch will win............. he usually does when he has wronged the MSNZ heirachy.......... must have a better lawyer

BTW, where is Mark?? seems to be very quiet of late??

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

that was a very nice way to put it............. i do hope he never gets to do anything for TV in regards to Rally NZ ever again........ his ignorance and comments are an embarrasment to the country





Petch will win............. he usually does when he has wronged the MSNZ heirachy.......... must have a better lawyer

BTW, where is Mark?? seems to be very quiet of late??

I believe they are not making public comment on the issue

[JC Ohope]

Pretty damning article on the V8ST/NZV8 split

About a year ago I wrote about how V8 racing in New Zealand was heading backwards and about to mimic the bad old days of American motor racing when they had their ChampCar v IndyCar debacle.

Wise heads decided that wasn't a good idea and a waste of money where fans didn't know who was doing what. You'd think the movers and shakers of V8 motor racing in New Zealand would have noticed how much bigger and better IndyCar is now that there is just one series. But after announcing there would be no breakaway series last year, it's all on again.

We've all known that there would be a non-championship series featuring the new V8SuperTourer class and that the NZV8 national championship would continue with a new car recently unveiled at the Speedshow. However, two things irk me about the recent wrangle. The first is over who owns the intellectual property (IP) of the V8SuperTourer car.

I want to make it clear that I don't have an opinion on either camp. They're both about as dysfunctional as each other if they think New Zealand, with a population of just over four million, can bankroll two V8 series. The CART/ChampCar/Indycar split just about destroyed single-seater racing in America and it was only because the US is so big that the various series managed to lurch from season to season.

The other problem is lawyers are now involved and I can easily imagine, by the time the dust settles, enough money will have been bunced on new cars and swimming pools for the legal eagles, to have built a couple of cars for both series.

Motorsport is supposed to be about racing, but it always ends up, and not just in New Zealand, in a weeing contest between egos. The silence radiating out of MotorSport New Zealand is a little disquieting, but then again I might be doing them a disservice and the president and general manger are hopefully banging a few heads together behind closed doors.

The heart of the problem appears to have started over disparate ideals on how the V8 championship should be run with each camp blaming the other for not promoting the sport. The two factions - NZV8s Vee Eight Entrances Group Association (Veega) and MotorSport NZ promotor, the Motorsport Company - were at each other's throats about profit sharing and self-interest. Just as that problem appeared to have been solved, a breakaway group, V8SuperTourers made up of some former Veega members, decided they would indeed march to their own tune and create a new series with a new car. At the heart of the recent spat that almost saw the V8SuperTourer car not being exhibited at the Speedshow, is who owns the IP for the car, and rumours of internal wrangling in the group running the new series.

As a monster fan of motorsport, I often shake my head in dismay and disappointment that in such a small country with limited resources, especially in these harsh commercial times, anyone would even want to contemplate a split.

At one stage it did all appear to have been sorted out and a couple of the grownups had told the squabbling children to pull their heads in and put the toys back in the pram. Not so, and from what I can gather it's only going to get worse. This will only serve to reiterate the already widely held belief of the dysfunctionality within New Zealand motorsport.

Over the past few years the V8 championship has struggled to fill its grids and at one point had to drop the development series due to lack of interest. What on earth do the principals in this recent wrangle think is going to happen if the sport is split down the middle? The fan base is already pretty low so why in the good lord's name would you want to split them?

Motor racing is an expensive pastime and exposure for sponsors is limited at the best of times. What the two parties fail to realise is the long-term damage that will happen with a split. Sponsors, rather than backing the sport, will put it in the too-hard-basket and take their money elsewhere. The 12-hour endurance race at Taupo was cancelled due to lack of interest, the Formula Ford category is struggling for numbers, as are other classes, and the V8s want a split series.

To the warring factions, may I suggest that you have the sport at the heart of the issue - not your back pockets - and pick one series.

I wrote last year, after having being told by a number of folk on both sides of the fence, that the initial problems had all been sorted out.

"I'm really pleased they've sorted it out," said the president of Motorsport NZ Shayne Harris in July last year. "What we [MNZ] wanted was one championship and it's very pleasing that both parties are working towards that. We certainly didn't want a diversion in the series and the value of common sense has come to the front."

I went on to say now that all hair pulling and finger pointing was sorted out and there was a two-year contract in place with TV3, let's hope the country can go racing and not *****ing.

Apparently not ...

[Woolley]

Well said. As soon as people go racing for a profit you can be pretty sure the sport will suffer. Wouldn't it be nice if both sides would just pull their heads in and just get on with the racing in a single series? Frankly, they should both be ashamed of themselves.

Not a chance, I suspect.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Well said. As soon as people go racing for a profit you can be pretty sure the sport will suffer. Wouldn't it be nice if both sides would just pull their heads in and just get on with the racing in a single series? Frankly, they should both be ashamed of themselves.

Not a chance, I suspect.

Not while TMC remains an integral part of the NZV8 series. I said years ago that TMC should be sold off by MNZ, then it would be a level playing field and a series could use who they wanted to promote themselves, rather than being contractually obligated to one promoter with questionable motivation.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Not while TMC remains an integral part of the NZV8 series. I said years ago that TMC should be sold off by MNZ, then it would be a level playing field and a series could use who they wanted to promote themselves, rather than being contractually obligated to one promoter with questionable motivation.

As of late last year, I thought TMC was out of NZV8's? At least that is what Mark Petch said last October I believe.

I think a lot of times when CAMS and MNZ got involved with series like this, it was with good intentions, but it is best for these organizations to be a level above as an overseer of safety, licensing and so on.

You just end up with too many conflicts of interests and politics. Best to let private enterprise run with it.

[MS Fan]

Motorsport NZ is the major shareholder in TMC, the full shareholding list from the Companies Site is below, but most of the circuits (via the clubs that own them) have a shareholding also.
THE MOTORSPORT COMPANY LIMITED

Total Number of Shares:150000 Extensive Shareholding:No
Shareholders in Allocation:


90000 shares
MOTORSPORT NEW ZEALAND INCORPORATED
11250 shares
SOUTHLAND SPORTS CAR CLUB INCORPORATED
11250 shares
SOUTH CANTERBURY CAR CLUB INCORPORATED
11250 shares
THE CANTERBURY CAR CLUB INCORPORATED
11250 shares
THE MANAWATU CAR CLUB (INCORPORATED)
7500 shares
TAUPO CAR CLUB INCORPORATED
7500 shares
NZ INTERNATIONAL GRAND PRIX (AUCK) INC


As I remember it, TMC was set up at a time when getting someone to promote the Summer Series was a problem and so I think it was setup with good intentions.

It has been suggested by others that MSNZ being the regulator and (effectively) the promoter is a conflict of interest. But it also could be argued that they will (or at least should) have the sports best interest in mind.

You do not seem to see (or at least I haven't) the same sort of conflict going on with the equivalent Rally Promotions company (Rally of New Zealand Limited) who are now running both the International Rally and the National Rally series. If this is the case can we learn something from this side of the sport.

[brown dog]

Originally Posted by brown dog

Both cars are spaceframes with the appropriate body panels nailed on.

A correction to that statement I made, from someone who knows better than I do. The Paul Ceprnich penned V8ST is technically speaking a monocoque car and not a spaceframe car.

Some very interesting discussion going on in this thread, and for the most part very civil too!

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by MS Fan

Motorsport NZ is the major shareholder in TMC, the full shareholding list from the Companies Site is below, but most of the circuits (via the clubs that own them) have a shareholding also.
THE MOTORSPORT COMPANY LIMITED

Total Number of Shares:150000 Extensive Shareholding:No
Shareholders in Allocation:


90000 shares
MOTORSPORT NEW ZEALAND INCORPORATED
11250 shares
SOUTHLAND SPORTS CAR CLUB INCORPORATED
11250 shares
SOUTH CANTERBURY CAR CLUB INCORPORATED
11250 shares
THE CANTERBURY CAR CLUB INCORPORATED
11250 shares
THE MANAWATU CAR CLUB (INCORPORATED)
7500 shares
TAUPO CAR CLUB INCORPORATED
7500 shares
NZ INTERNATIONAL GRAND PRIX (AUCK) INC


As I remember it, TMC was set up at a time when getting someone to promote the Summer Series was a problem and so I think it was setup with good intentions.

It has been suggested by others that MSNZ being the regulator and (effectively) the promoter is a conflict of interest. But it also could be argued that they will (or at least should) have the sports best interest in mind.

You do not seem to see (or at least I haven't) the same sort of conflict going on with the equivalent Rally Promotions company (Rally of New Zealand Limited) who are now running both the International Rally and the National Rally series. If this is the case can we learn something from this side of the sport.

That's a very good point, isn't it? I don't know if there is unhappiness with RNZ from the drivers (Smokin' Joe may know?) but I haven't heard of any.

Maybe it all comes down to personalities...

I think TEEGA became VEEGA after a sort of bust-up between the teams and TMC, but I don't know the intricacies of what went down. VEEGA are still tied contractually to TMC is my understanding, how exactly I don't know.

[Just Do It!]

The bit I don't get then is how one lot can contest the other lot over IP when a 3rd party built the car, and probably provided some design elements/guidance as well as part of that process.

There's a number of interesting other questions too, such as which of the parties at war left Speedshow first, and who actually owns race car car IP, along with specualtion Ford will only let a Ford run with a Ford engine? Oh boy, oh boy!!