TTA 2012 - The new kid on the block

[NaBUru38]

From what I read, the battle is between TTA teams and STCC bosses. I think that TTA teams won't fold into STCC. STCC-prone teams are much more likely to join the TTA championship if it wins the war.

[Speed-King]

join the TTA championship if it wins the war.

Is that even a question by now? We all know how this is gonna end and most of you are not going to like it...

[MJones94]

So TTA is now using the BTCC NGTC regs?

[Mr Pink]

No, STCC want's to use NGTC rules in 2013(?) but TTA is going to run Solution-F spaceframe cars. They're also going to use KERS and push-to-pass which means the cars won't be interchangeble with BTCS. Infact teams won't be able to buy cars, they buy a stake in TTA.

I really don't like S2000 so I'm glad to se a change but I'm far from shure this is the way to go.

[MJones94]

Originally Posted by Mr Pink

No, STCC want's to use NGTC rules in 2013(?) but TTA is going to run Solution-F spaceframe cars. They're also going to use KERS and push-to-pass which means the cars won't be interchangeble with BTCS. Infact teams won't be able to buy cars, they buy a stake in TTA.

I really don't like S2000 so I'm glad to se a change but I'm far from shure this is the way to go.

So that's where I heard about the NGTC regs! Thanks for the heads up. Yeah the TTA machines don't sound much like touring cars but cool nonetheless. I can only see one victor from this battle.

[Speed-King]

So I got bored and ran the TTA-Forum through the Google Translator last night... some bold statements from Flash, especially this one:

One should always be critical and think about whether things are right or wrong. I can promise that the combined experience to engage in race-car team, run and fund their athletes in the TTA is incredibly large. TTA owners want to create an environment where team drivers and sponsors can develop and eventually take the step out internationally, which is missing right now in the Swedish motor sport model. Economics is very important in the model and what the audience thinks. Obviously, our approach is not the best in the world, but the best in Sweden. When we run the TTA concept for two years, I am convinced that it will be started in many other European countries like Holland, Belgium, Chech Republic, Spain, Portugal, France. This is so good that no one except STCC can say no. Glad you changed your mind, just wait

http://ttagroup.se/forum/

[Pettersson]

You think that's a bold statement? Then you've missed a lot of Flash's statements, but that's understandable since he has pretty much only talked in Swedish media. He has said that only one series (TTA or STCC) will survive, and TTA is not going to be other than a success. No further comment needed.

TTA can probably become a good championship, but Flash's statements has led to a lot of people having very high hopes (including me). I'm afraid every failure during 2012 will get highlighted in media because of their general "we are best" approach. TTA has contributed to the war between STCC AB by putting pressure on the track owners. They've pretty much said that if you want SRL/TTA to race on your track, than you must say no to STCC AB in a written agreement. TTA wants exclusive rights. I wouldn't be suprised if they have some sort of agreement for new teams joining TTA (like how they are not allowed to race together with STCC, either in STCC itself or any support races). This last thing is only what I believe and hasn't been leaked, but I wouldn't be suprised if there was such an agreement.

That's how infected this debate is in and also a hint of how low people can go in our poor little country. TTA would have been a great concept if it wasn't for all the dirty tactics involved. Not saying that STCC AB has been much better either...

[NaBUru38]

The French don't have a proper touring car championship. Peugeot and Renault have works teams in the Argentine TC2000 to promote their 408 and Fluence, but not in their home country. If Flash can convince FFSA to run a similar championship, it could get a bit of inertia.

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

The French don't have a proper touring car championship. Peugeot and Renault have works teams in the Argentine TC2000 to promote their 408 and Fluence, but not in their home country. If Flash can convince FFSA to run a similar championship, it could get a bit of inertia.

That's true but I'm not so shure Flash actually wants to get involved in something like this, I think it's just his way of telling people how good the concept is.

[FIRE]

France had a silhouette series comparable to TTA. It folded years ago.
Belgium has already something like TTA: BTCS. But it isn't very successful.

Of course it could be Flash is right. It would be nice to have this here in Holland.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by FIRE

France had a silhouette series comparable to TTA. It folded years ago.
Belgium has already something like TTA: BTCS. But it isn't very successful.

Of course it could be Flash is right. It would be nice to have this here in Holland.

The Dutch GT4 series seems to be struggling lately, so there might be an opening there in one or two years time...

[FIRE]

Struggling yes. Like always (rising) costs is a reason but also (like always ) the performance balancing. A one make series would solve some problems, although a top level series will always struggle in Holland.

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Struggling yes. Like always (rising) costs is a reason but also (like always ) the performance balancing. A one make series would solve some problems, although a top level series will always struggle in Holland.

But at least you guys have a few international events. Sweden has pretty much none (which I think is one of the reasons STCC has been so succesful, it's all the casual fan knows apart from maybe F1.)

[Mr Pink]

Sebastian Hohenthal has tested with Flash Engineering, i would love to see that happening! Sebastian is way too good not to be racing.

Edit: http://www.touringcartimes.com/article.php?id=6939

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by Mr Pink

But at least you guys have a few international events. Sweden has pretty much none (which I think is one of the reasons STCC has been so succesful, it's all the casual fan knows apart from maybe F1.)

I'll take a strong national series over a few international events, thank you very much. Especially when one of them is a complete borefest (DTM).

Really surprised there's been no TV deal announced yet. Unless SBF is being obnoxious about it (which I can't see them having any mandate to be), this should have been announced long ago. I guess they'll end up on Viasat but I'm sure potential sponsors would like to know that for sure.

[ptclaus98]

Holy **** that Volvo looks SWEET. I wish we had something like this in America.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Holy **** that Volvo looks SWEET. I wish we had something like this in America.

How about this SCCA WC GT car?

[gttouring]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

How about this SCCA WC GT car?

Someof the best racing..too bad it has been watered down a bit. Even the old world challenge TC is a mess now in rule set...
I saw the TTA test videos at touring car times and it look good soundsgood but it seems like it is DTM lite- maybe that's what people want I don't think so though

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by gttouring

Someof the best racing..too bad it has been watered down a bit. Even the old world challenge TC is a mess now in rule set...
I saw the TTA test videos at touring car times and it look good soundsgood but it seems like it is DTM lite- maybe that's what people want I don't think so though

The car sounds and drives quite nice, but I worry for the on-track product. Still haven't seen mid-engined silhouettes proven in that respect. Didn't work in France and the closest parallell - Megane Trophy - is pretty docile. They say the cars will be low downforce but as of yet I'm sceptical.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

The car sounds and drives quite nice, but I worry for the on-track product. Still haven't seen mid-engined silhouettes proven in that respect. Didn't work in France and the closest parallell - Megane Trophy - is pretty docile. They say the cars will be low downforce but as of yet I'm sceptical.

Well, there are the Daytona Prototypes in Grand Am and while they aren't exactly silhouettes, the layout is actually quite similar to the TTA-proposal and they are pretty darn racey.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Well, there are the Daytona Prototypes in Grand Am and while they aren't exactly silhouettes, the layout is actually quite similar to the TTA-proposal and they are pretty darn racey.

They aren't all that bad, but they have more power and weigh less than the TTA cars, and I think they are almost too "easy" to drive. Certainly to the point that decent amateurs (Patterson, Pew, Brown, Rojas if you're feeling mean) can jump into them and be pretty much on the pace. And to add to that I'm suspecting the TTA car will have more aero grip than the DP's.

[Pettersson]

Aren't the GT cars i Grand Am also silhuettes? Like the Speedsource RX-8, Turner BMW's and the Camaro's. I saw a tech review of the RX-8 and it was not a production based car at all. But they do look really nice, with the correct shapes and proportions.

[Speed-King]

Hmm, where to start there:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

They aren't all that bad, but they have more power and weigh less than the TTA cars

They have more power, but they are actually a bit heavier than TTA-cars, with the DPs coming in somewhere around 1050kg and TTA-cars being only around 950kg (if BTCS is anything to go by).

and I think they are almost too "easy" to drive.

From what I've heard, they are really squirrely and you have to know what you're doing or you'll get a lot of fishtailing out of the corners.

Certainly to the point that decent amateurs (Patterson, Pew, Brown, Rojas if you're feeling mean) can jump into them and be pretty much on the pace.

Except for Rojas, all these guys would be completely lost without their co-drivers. The amateur's job is to hang on to the lead lap for the first 30-45 minutes and hand the car over to the pro undamaged. Having a bunch of FCYs usually helps. I don't think the relatively decent results of these guys have much to do with the cars being easy to drive.

And to add to that I'm suspecting the TTA car will have more aero grip than the DP's.

I don't think so. A DP is still (somewhat of) a prototype, whereas the TTA-cars will have to follow a road car silhouette (and much closer than their BTCS-brethren from what the TTA-PR says).

Aren't the GT cars i Grand Am also silhuettes?

Some of them are, some of them aren't. But the question here is about mid-engined silhouettes, and there aren't any of those in Grand Am GT.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

They have more power, but they are actually a bit heavier than TTA-cars, with the DPs coming in somewhere around 1050kg and TTA-cars being only around 950kg (if BTCS is anything to go by).

Their own material puts the weight at 1100 kilos. KERS system among others adding to it I suspect.

Originally Posted by Speed-King

From what I've heard, they are really squirrely and you have to know what you're doing or you'll get a lot of fishtailing out of the corners.

Certainly do not agree with that statement. Lots of drivers have pointed out how (relatively) simple and forgiving the DP's are to drive. Not to drive at 10 10ths, but at 96-98% of the pace. Their on track characteristics certainly support this from all the years I've been watching them, IMO.

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Except for Rojas, all these guys would be completely lost without their co-drivers. The amateur's job is to hang on to the lead lap for the first 30-45 minutes and hand the car over to the pro undamaged. Having a bunch of FCYs usually helps. I don't think the relatively decent results of these guys have much to do with the cars being easy to drive.

Yes. Rojas is a mediocre racing driver, the others are business executives. But they'd have a far tougher job in real prototypes, for instance.

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I don't think so. A DP is still (somewhat of) a prototype, whereas the TTA-cars will have to follow a road car silhouette (and much closer than their BTCS-brethren from what the TTA-PR says).

It's not like the DP's have a very smooth profile right now. Add to that the simplicity of their bodies and compare with Solution F. I'm no expert in this area and it would take someone like Mulsanne Mike to settle it, but that is my suspicion. In a few months we'll find out.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

How about this SCCA WC GT car?

Now you can get that S60 in Facebook's Car Town!