MSA ruling - Hans or similar to be mandatory in 2016

[Rudernst]

discuss....

general circuit racing in 2016, some historics exempt
Historics 2017

Personally, i am not affected, I use the newest Stand 21 hans already
have wife and 3 children and cant take any chances with my neck

but several will disagree...


R.E.

[Normal Bloke]

ditto

[delta]

Yes I bought mine this winter not used it yet . Bit daft . May be I will try this weekend . Think it is just getting into another routine . Like tieing shoe laces

[Nick JM]

Is it an MSA ruling despite whatever you drive or just single sweaters?

[midgetman]

All cars except some period exempt vehicles. I presume if you don't need ROPS and belts you won't need HANS

[356sc]

As a late comer to racing, I have always raced with some form of HANS device, and as Delta suggested it now just forms part of the clobber you put on before you get in the car, and it would seem odd racing without it.

Having seen my old man have a pretty big impact at LMC and walk away with just a bruise on his collar bone, I am a convert.

Having said that if I was still in my "indestructable youth" phase, I would probably be seeing this as yet another example of someone else dictating what I should be wearing to protect myself, and yet another expensive bit of kit you need to buy to go racing.

[Derwent Motorsp]

It also applies to non road going cars in speed events as well. Just another nail in the coffin I'm afraid.
Many folk, like myself, had to get new helmets for this season but the one I, and others bought does not have the ROPs attachment so if we are doing events where it applies then we need a new helmet as well.
It is another case of the MSA failing to consult clubs and licence holders. As a competitors and speed clerk of the course, accidents on speed events that cause injury are extremely rare, indeed on all the events I have clerked I've never had an injury.
The extra cost already races the cost of getting started in speed events. It's already over £500 and ROPs will add at least £200 while the ROPs helmet will add more to the helmet cost. Thus fewer new comers to a sport where the average is is well over 50.
it will also lead to events being run outwith the MSA as there are now a dozen bodies that can legally authorise motorsport.

[Al Weyman]

I have started wearing one last year and immediately tested it at Cadwell after suspension failure put me in the tyre wall and to reassure Iain I can honestly say it has no effect whatsoever on my vision or moverability when in the car in fact I forget I'm even wearing it!

[Colin McKay]

Sadly I've had limited opportunity to use my hybrid (bought last winter) but qually & half a dozen laps at Thruxton confirmed it's not too restrictive & the main worry of getting in & out isn't a problem. Not so easy to glance at LH mirror but apart from that it's fine.

[midgetman]

Grumpy git alert! Can we get the terminology right?

ROPS = ROLL Over Protection System = Roll cage

FHR = Frontal Head Restraint = HANS device or similar

[Colin McKay]

While we're on the subject, I noticed Tweeks' useful explanation of the available systems distinguishes between FHR (which they say the Simpson is) and HANS (which is now a trademark and can only be used by certain manufacturers).

However, the very reason I opted for the Simpson Hybrid is that it offers both frontal and side impact protection, which the HANS devices do not. The very terminology used seems to introduce a degree of confusion, at least it does to this grumpy git!

[midgetman]

Yup HANS always has been a trademark of the company that makes them. Stand 21, Schroth et al make them under licence. So Frontal Head Restraint is the generic term coined but Hoovers and Biros come.to mind.

[DAVID PATERSON]

CAMS, the Australian ASN, has introduced them progressively. International and National level modern has had them for a couple of years now. State & Club level modern they came in last year. Historic Touring Cars have required them since the tarts of the year and Historic Prod Sports will require them from next month. They will be introduced for single seaters and sports racers next year, later models first then eventually the early ones.

[HRSTR5]

Been using one ever since my lucky escape at Phillip Island in 2012 ... can't say it's ever bothered me to use it, just a little more cumbersome when strapping in, nothing more. Have forgotten to attach the straps to the helmet a couple of times, which is really very very stupid -and something I certainly don't want to do again.

[Gary Milgrom]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

While we're on the subject, I noticed Tweeks' useful explanation of the available systems distinguishes between FHR (which they say the Simpson is) and HANS (which is now a trademark and can only be used by certain manufacturers).

However, the very reason I opted for the Simpson Hybrid is that it offers both frontal and side impact protection, which the HANS devices do not. The very terminology used seems to introduce a degree of confusion, at least it does to this grumpy git!

Disclaimer: I work for HANS Performance Products, inventors and marketers of the HANS Device. Thank you for the opportunity of posting in this forum.

In response to the above: ALL of these types of head and helmet restraints are now called Frontal Head Restraints by the FIA for the very reason that they have been designed to work in this direction. The HANS Device is a FHR. As others have posted, it's like calling any vacuum cleaner a Hoover or any photocopy machine a Xerox. By the way HANS is an Acronym for Head and Neck Restraint System.

FRONTAL HEAD RESTRAINTS AND SIDE IMPACTS

1. All FIA and SFI certified frontal head restraints offer protection from zero to 30 degrees offset. No FHR provides complete protection in side impacts beyond 30 degrees. For complete side impact protection head surrounds, full containment seats or side nets should be your primary means of protection.

2. What defines side impact? If you mean someone hitting your door at 90 degrees but the manufacturer means slightly offset from head on you are not talking about the same thing and you may not receive the level of protection you expect.

3. Anecdotal evidence shows lateral head surrounds, full containment seats or side nets must be used to provide protection from side impacts; while your frontal head restraint provides protection from zero to thirty degree offset impacts.

4. The Simpson 360 degree approach to cockpit safety - harness, helmet, suit, seat, nets and head restraint has been proven to provide exceptional levels of safety in your race car.

If you have further questions about cockpit safety I would be happy to try and answer them. Please contact me directly. Thank you.

Gary Milgrom
HANS Performance Products
gmilgrom (at) teamsimpson (dot) com

[Tim Falce]

Hi Gary, welcome to Ten Tenths and many thanks for the informative post.

[zefarelly]

bought one, used it, all fine, good idea, and its not lifed for 6 weeks between services . . . . . . . . . yet!!!

[Heightswitch]

I have a few concerns about this new reg and the suitability for me in my car..

First off..The rules say that there are exemptions for certain period defined cars? What exactly is the exemption?

I have a TVR Griff, Made to all the correct widths (AHEM ) which means that my car is quite awkward to get into and do myself up in..I generally can just about get in with my hemet on outside the car and clamber about enough to get comfy in my narrow seat which fits in terms of the law of diminishing returns….

The above statement means they the seat is just narrow enough to fit in the car but just wide enough to suit my gargantuan arse…

Had I been racing a Big yank tank etc then I wouldn't be concerned about these issues but the griff is very small, the cage sits snugly against the roof and I just about fit into the car with an awareness of the cage proximity

I suppose I will have to try one one of these days to see how feasible it all is..

I do get concerned about just how workable attaching another bit of kit to my head shoulder area is though??

N.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I have started wearing one last year and immediately tested it at Cadwell after suspension failure put me in the tyre wall and to reassure Iain I can honestly say it has no effect whatsoever on my vision or moverability when in the car in fact I forget I'm even wearing it!

Agree with Al. Was nervous to use it but after the first time I tried it I didn't even notice it.

I usually race in 2 driver races and over the past few years have used a HANS in a variety of cars from a single seater to a Fiat Uno to a Toyota, and now a Porsche 924S. The 924 is probably the most restricted access of all of those, although not as restricted as a TVR probably, and I have had no real trouble changing drivers at all.

The fastest driver changes in CSCC are often accomplished by driver pairings that use HANS devices.

[JasperClan]

You TVR looks like it's got acres of room compared with my Clan and I've had no problems using a HANS for several years now. I have one way in and one way out. If I deviate from them then it can be a problem.

Pete Richards

[Heightswitch]

Hi Pete..I may be worrying over Nothing, I believe you can get quite compact units these days so hopefully I can borrow a helmet and Hans off someone to try out for size and work out the best set up to go for..

N.

[FISCracer]

Originally Posted by Heightswitch

Hi Pete..I may be worrying over Nothing, I believe you can get quite compact units these days so hopefully I can borrow a helmet and Hans off someone to try out for size and work out the best set up to go for..

N.

Neil

I have a Simpsom Hybrid because I have different cars with different seating positions. I suspect your Griff has similar space to my Grannie, ie masses of room once in, the Marcos however is a different matter. I cannot get in it with the FHR on and so far I have not been able to get it done up once inside unless I have outside help.

Have to see what they say when it becomes compulsory. It's alright for all the jockeys

[rbm]

Originally Posted by Rudernst

discuss....

general circuit racing in 2016, some historics exempt
Historics 2017

Personally, i am not affected, I use the newest Stand 21 hans already
have wife and 3 children and cant take any chances with my neck

but several will disagree...


R.E.

Rudolf,

just a question, can you get away with using the same Hans in all of your cars? (i.e. with the different seating angles?)

cheers Richard

[SJWBallistic]

Richard
After witnessing your accident last year I made the decision to use FHR. Over the winter roll over bar was extended in the Cooper and I have purchased Simpson hybrid FHR. This will allow use in all of your cars.
Have a look at Cadwell this weekend if you want to. See you there
Stuart Wright

[Colin McKay]

I'll also be at Cadwell so happy to let 10thers try my hybrid. I've only used it in the E so far, but I'm in a HFF2000 this weekend so will find out if it's as versatile as they claim.