[ELMS] ELMS 2016

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by rdjones

I think it's really sad that there no Ginetta's on the list as they did such a great job last year. I have no idea what has gone on between Ginetta, the ACO and ORECA but its just a shame they couldn't sort it out.

Great job???? The chassis was a disaster. The only thing they did right was committing to thing very early and get those orders on the way.

Though it must be said, even if it had been the greatest thing sliced bread, the fact there's no Ginetta LMP2 like there is with the French Monopoly Makers, would make it automatically less attractive for many.

I guess LNT could've continued running twin cars as "works team" again, and perhaps gotten that LMP2 auto entry too for LM that way, but if no-one wants your car is there really incentive?

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by J Jay

So LMP3 really is the City of Ligier...

Ligier Monopoly Prototype 3 class*

* -/-1 other car we haven't seen out on track anywhere yet...

[Deleted]

It's of course possible there are one offs* from ADESS or Ginetta, or that they will be announced later (it's not closed off list like WEC, and you can score points regardless of where and how many times you run (as they should)). But the chances for such are low.

* Unless the lame artificial grid cap kick in to spoil the day

[rdjones]

I have just seen a comment from Hindy on Facebook saying that the Ginetta never homologated their car for 2016, which is a real shame.

[J Jay]

I commend Ginetta for going all-in on LMP3 and testing the waters and seemingly the depths of ACO's provincialism (still got a way to go there...), but the stumbles on the way didn't help matters. Even if they were only bad from a PR point of view that's more than enough to put off potential customers when you can climb into a Ligier with an LMP2 ready for any potential step-up.

They probably withdrew to save money/face after getting whispers about the sheer number of Ligiers being taken, and I don't blame them.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Chiana

15 LMP2s is impressive. But the likelihood of some withdrawals is possible now that we are aware of the LM list and some of the questionable choices there. And let's face it the actual entry lists for this series always seem to shrink from the initial ones, at least ever since 2012

- Greaves (2nd car)
- Algarve Pro
- Courage
- Dragonspeed

And Sausset's LM garage 56 entry is joining at Silverstone and perhaps Imola.

There might also be the possibility of (a) second car(s) joining from one of the announced teams (Eurasia or Pegasus for instance).

[rdjones]

Originally Posted by J Jay

I commend Ginetta for going all-in on LMP3 and testing the waters and seemingly the depths of ACO's provincialism (still got a way to go there...), but the stumbles on the way didn't help matters. Even if they were only bad from a PR point of view that's more than enough to put off potential customers when you can climb into a Ligier with an LMP2 ready for any potential step-up.

They probably withdrew to save money/face after getting whispers about the sheer number of Ligiers being taken, and I don't blame them.

I agree with that the ACO had a great chance to have a great young driver staircase with Ginetta.

If you think about it someone could have race in Ginetta Junior in the UK move up to the Supercup again in the UK then into LMP3 in ELMS and into P2 in either ELMS or WEC. Guess that isn't going to happen now.

[Deleted]

Greaves would have gotten two in had they submitted entry for WEC as they promised, as the ELMS car was always getting 100% in via the auto invite by winning ELMS last year. But alas no, and Jota/G-Drive/whatever-it's-called gets two in instead. Money drains help of course. In any case, not that it all matters much for Greaves, as they WILL be racing with two chassis at Sarthe regardless, as first reserve is 99,99% quarantee for actual spot. There is no way no-one from 60 is bailing out in four months time.

Algarve Pro is notoriously unreliable supporter, but getting no direct prize for turning up to ASLMS probably will raise some noise. But they are 2nd reserve so the getting in chances are still good, so no real worries yet.

"Courage" will curse for not having celebrity French footballers and direct ACO friends like the other two debut French LMP2 teams. Of course the unfashionable (in ACO's eyes) BR01 won't help, as French constructor chassis would've...

Dragonspeed, you know if it was an European team it would be understandable and especially as it's new squad to ACO, but American team committing to full season of European series and getting 8th place reserve out of it. Furious faces, quarantee it.

[Deleted]

DSC indeed confirms that some LMP3s were rejected for submitting entries "late". Ehh

[Coach Ep]

No confirmation from LM24G56 entrant Frederic Sausset on his possible Imola participation (he'll be on the grid for the opener at Silverstone).

Also, the modified Morgan has run for the very first time and the engine is still a Nissan (by Audi!).

http://www.racer.com/wec-le-mans/ite...-debut-in-elms

[Pontlieue]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

- Greaves (2nd car)
- Algarve Pro
- Courage
- Dragonspeed

And Sausset's LM garage 56 entry is joining at Silverstone and perhaps Imola.

There might also be the possibility of (a) second car(s) joining from one of the announced teams (Eurasia or Pegasus for instance).

I don't think Courage will withdraw. This is a long term project with a return to LMP1 planned for 2018. He is also aware that his 2016 entry came very late. I think from those mentioned by you, Algarve Pro are the most likely to withdraw. Have they ever run a full season in anything?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Pontlieue

I don't think Courage will withdraw. This is a long term project with a return to LMP1 planned for 2018. He is also aware that his 2016 entry came very late. I think from those mentioned by you, Algarve Pro are the most likely to withdraw. Have they ever run a full season in anything?

Last ASLMS season.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Pontlieue

I don't think Courage will withdraw. This is a long term project with a return to LMP1 planned for 2018. He is also aware that his 2016 entry came very late. I think from those mentioned by you, Algarve Pro are the most likely to withdraw. Have they ever run a full season in anything?

Agreed.

I was just putting names with Chiana's comments about teams potentially dropping their (seasonal) entry because of non LM selection. Algarve Pro is on top of that short list for me as well, I expect them to focus on AsLMS again but they need more speed in order to challenge for the auto entry next year.

[Deleted]

Algarve is high on the reseve list, I don't expect them to bail out of anything before it potentially becomes clear no-one is making room for them. If so, then disappearance is highly likely, at least from full season...

Regarding Courage, I actually had read that DSC article but not understood it properly, and now just saw it specifically mentioned LMP1 (in 2018). Wow great news, as I was just hoping the "ambitious program" would be something to that direction, but to get "confirmation" is fantastic. I wonder if SMP will be part of it.

[godlameroso]

That HPD engine is going to be the new hotness this year, when they see what a monster engine it is.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by godlameroso

That HPD engine is going to be the new hotness this year, when they see what a monster engine it is.

What HPD engine in ELMS???

[Deleted]

No Honda anywhere here.

Already wrote about it on the other thread (two actually ) but the ARC Bratislava Ginetta entry refusal is plain awful stuff from the ACO. Particularly just because they were late for the 'list'. Surely, even if you are going to enforce some kind of lame grid cap for 20 cars, there should be element of "higher priority" for some entries that could provide extra importance for the series? Unique chassis fills that criteria pretty nicely I think. Whatever the (non) quality of the car itself is. Even in their own ELMS press release the ACO text seemed to be somewhat sorry of there being just single non-"Ligier"

Furthermore, it's gonna look ridiculous if/when some team/teams entered for the season disappears and never shows up again, and you end up with 16 or 17 or 18 or 19 car or whatever "non capacity" LMP3 grid, while the rest of the interested parties initially having shown interest stay at home because they weren't allowed in from the beginning and have effectively already lost it. Yeah I suppose the round-by-round entries are still possible, but particularly coming in mid-season means zero championship chances.

If you have issues with overcrowding at circuits (only theoretical issue at RBR and Estoril likely as the other ELMS tracks can withstand 50+ car grids), utilize pre-qualifying then for the said class.

[Coach Ep]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a "first-come-first-served" policy. But I doubt the ACO used it. If only they would - for the LM24 as well.

Come on Fillon, show some guts and have an Entry list ranking sheet (LM24/WEC/ELMS) drawn up!

[Deleted]

First-come-first-served doesn't work for LM as they would have shady entry list in their hands 15 seconds after opening the submits for requests.

[Coach Ep]

But a ranking does. Points for first-come-first-serve (60-59-58-etc.) could be included in that.

All I'm asking for is a bit of transparency - I know you don't disagree!

[Jam3s]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Last ASLMS season.

Nope, they didn't attend the first race (due to the ACO's impossible scheduling which they have again repeated for this next season...)

I expect Algarve to race if the funding is available, they entered AsLMS when they had zero chance of an auto entry due to missing the first round, so they are in it for more than simply LM.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

But a ranking does. Points for first-come-first-serve (60-59-58-etc.) could be included in that.

All I'm asking for is a bit of transparency - I know you don't disagree!

This may seem like a little bit of anti-free competition but I think when you see 25+ or whatever it was applications from Ligiers, you should make the effort to accommodate the single Ginetta, for the sake of variety.

Variety is what U.S. sportscar fans love, otherwise we would just watch GP2 having to use Super Mario flaps to try to overtake each other no?

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Already wrote about it on the other thread (two actually ) but the ARC Bratislava Ginetta entry refusal is plain awful stuff from the ACO. Particularly just because they were late for the 'list'. Surely, even if you are going to enforce some kind of lame grid cap for 20 cars, there should be element of "higher priority" for some entries that could provide extra importance for the series? Unique chassis fills that criteria pretty nicely I think. Whatever the (non) quality of the car itself is. Even in their own ELMS press release the ACO text seemed to be somewhat sorry of there being just single non-"Ligier"

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

This may seem like a little bit of anti-free competition but I think when you see 25+ or whatever it was applications from Ligiers, you should make the effort to accommodate the single Ginetta, for the sake of variety.

Variety is what U.S. sportscar fans love, otherwise we would just watch GP2 having to use Super Mario flaps to try to overtake each other no?

I'm assuming there was a very good reason for the ARC Bratislava entry being late, hence the fuss here.

As much as I prefer variety, I'm also assuming the 400-odd Ligier runners got their entries in on time, hence why they were actually selected.

Not missing a point here, am I?

[Deleted]

The new prize money (that WEC still lacks) in ART 11.2.2

http://europeanlemansseries.com/web/...lations_V8.pdf

50,000-100,000 € for the Champ winners + 5,000 for Event Winners

However there are plenty of typos in that piece (for example all of them read as LMP2, and mention Michelin GT3 Cup ) so I'm not exactly sure if 75,000 is for LMP3 or LMGTE, same with 50,000

[Irie]

The entry fee is 54,000 € + VAT. So if you win you can potentially your entry fee back?
Also I find this clause kind of scummy:

Originally Posted by 3.3.1 b)

If one or more cars are not selected by the
Selection Committee, the entire payment
corresponding to the amount of the entry fee will
be reimbursed, except for a sum of €1000 which
will be kept as handling costs.