expenses

[SouthportFC Fan]

Originally Posted by pauln

Just an aside. As many of you know, Silverstone have been providing a free bottle of water to everybody at sign-on for the past couple of years. Penny reckons that costs her budget about £7k.

Paul, it's two bottles (isn't it ??)

A round trip to my 'home' circuit costs me ~£60 if I use the M6 Toll on the way home. That's why I tend to only do 'full' weekends only. I know I'm very lucky with a company car and private fuel allowance, but being paid 'expenses', no thanks.

Besides that, for those of you that do a significant number of days, HMRC would get VERY interested, believe me !!

[The Fat Clerk]

Besides that, for those of you that do a significant number of days, HMRC would get VERY interested, believe me !![/QUOTE]


Her Majestys Revenue & Customs, better known as the 'Bloodsuckers'

[skeee]

The occasional free breakfast, generous raffles and the odd fiver are nice but not as nice as the ‘warm fuzzy feeling’ (as previously mentioned) when a driver stops you en route through the pits or paddock and says
“ thanks very much” just because you are in orange.

[The Fat Clerk]

It was noticeable yesterday at the Devils Elbow, every single Competitor that left the circuit waved and smiled at us. warm fuzzy feeling indeed.

[SouthportFC Fan]

Whilst Chris Whitlock and I were sat in the queue trying to get out of the circuit after the GP, we had a 'warm fuzzy moment' when a member of the public thanked us and all other marshals for the job we do !!

Mind you, I had the feeling that he'd been imbibing 'the amber nectar' freely during the day.

There is another issue with expenses being raised by way of a 'surcharge' or increase in race fees.

Perhaps expectations of what we would be required to do would increase, and subsequent dissatisfactions could start being voiced.

[Apple]

As someone else said,
I would not want to be on post with a person who is only there for the money.

[bravo]

I wouldn't expect to, nor would want to be on post with, someone only there for the money. However, the warm fuzzy feeling of a driver waving to you to appreciate your being there does not put fuel in the car, or pay for probans, boots, packed lunches etc.

I don't think anyone is wanting to be paid for it, just not to be even more out of pocket than in previous years. Never mind driving only being for the rich, many of us won't be able to afford to marshal either!

[HairyDJ]

Not surprised at aspire prices

It's one of several "caring" improvements Penny's brought in over the past year or two - easy to take for granted, but much appreciated

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by bloodhound

BTCC lets say 100 marshals programs at £5 thats £500 forget the program give £5 to help us out.....ok its not that simple i know

Even at a normal clubby some circuits are getting well over 100 marshals; the cost of a programme to the organisers is a fraction of its cover price.

However, the numbers are irrelevant. A few years ago the F3/GT organisers decided to print a generic programme which would cover the season's events & produce a small supplement, which they called a "race card", giving timetables & entries for each meeting. The furore when marshals at Oulton were told that they would only be getting the race card is a pretty clear indication that the vast majority of marshals want a programme.

[MacGWC]

Originally Posted by SouthportFC Fan

Besides that, for those of you that do a significant number of days, HMRC would get VERY interested, believe me !!

The nominal amount of expenses paid to marshals is a small fraction of costs incurred and I think it most unlikely that HMRC would be all that inerested.

In my view, the present financial crisis is far from spent. Household power bills will increase by up to 30% or more in the coming year (yes, I know the power companies advertise lower increases than this - but check the new tariffs, the real increase is much, much more!). My fear is that this may lead, once again, to a lot of marshals giving up their weekend hobby because they simply cannot afford to do so.

Some gesture now might help stem this outflow. There are several clubs already doing their bit but as noted prevously by Woolley and others, it is those at the top end of our sport who sometimes seem least inclined to assist.

[m1fcf]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

Her Majestys Revenue & Customs, better known as the 'Bloodsuckers'

Ah them - I was trying to work out who the HM Racing Club were....

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

A few years ago the F3/GT organisers decided to print a generic programme which would cover the season's events & produce a small supplement, which they called a "race card", giving timetables & entries for each meeting. The furore when marshals at Oulton were told that they would only be getting the race card is a pretty clear indication that the vast majority of marshals want a programme.

That's interesting. Personally, I just want to know who and when. Particulary if I'm flagging I find the full bells and whistles ones often don't present the information I need in a way that's easy to use while keeping an eye on the track. That might be just me as I know a lot like to keep them as souvenirs. I wonder if a poll might be interesting?

Originally Posted by MacGWC

The nominal amount of expenses paid to marshals is a small fraction of costs incurred and I think it most unlikely that HMRC would be all that interested.

HMR&C allow 45p per mile expenses for both work use and volunteers. I doubt many people exceed that over the course of a tax year. I'm pretty sure you're also allowed to supply food to volunteers within reason without incurring a taxable benefit - I'll look that one up.

[Bryan Degerlund]

Programmes for MSVR Brands Hatch meetings recently have included "spotter's guides" for most races. Very useful for displaying warning flags, etc.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Bryan Degerlund

Programmes for MSVR Brands Hatch meetings recently have included "spotter's guides" for most races. Very useful for displaying warning flags, etc.

. . . and for those "I didn't get the number but it was a blue & white car" occasions!

[Nighthawk]

The £5 a day given at the F1GP is non taxable and is allowed as meal allowence had this out with tax man a few years ago...And its not increased as it would then fall outside the allowed sum and become taxable...
But £15 for 3 days pays my fuel bill for the trip to silverstone

[MacGWC]

Originally Posted by bloodhound

The £5 a day given at the F1GP is non taxable and is allowed as meal allowence had this out with tax man a few years ago...And its not increased as it would then fall outside the allowed sum and become taxable...
But £15 for 3 days pays my fuel bill for the trip to silverstone

Nor would £15 a day, paid as an expense allowance, be taxable. Current allowance for other "volunteer" officials is £45 a day plus mileage at HMCE rate and accommodation. This has kept pace with inflation over the past 16 years.

Once again, this is not an appeal for marshals to be paid, merely that whatever nominal expense allowance is paid to marshals should be kept in line with allowances paid to others, here and in similarly funded GP operations in Europe.

Nor is it an attempt to tell any organiser how they should spend their money but if the only way to make a profit is to reduce the nominal amounts paid to marshals, maybe those clubs should ask themselves if they are in the right business!

It is, however, an attempt to see if we can rustle up a little more on expenses, amidst the worst financial crisis since the great depression and maybe keep a few more of our existing marshals in the sport. There are definite signs already that many marshals are wondering how long they can continue to afford their weekend hobby. We do not want another exodus as we had in the late 1990's/early 2000's that saw marshalling figures no better than 40% of what they had been - and it cost the sport a lot of money to restore the position to 40,000+ days per season, where we are now.

[Nighthawk]

well said....MacGWC....

[numbersix]

Much as I respect and admire the fine efforts devoted to recruiting new marshals, I fear the greater issue is retaining the ones we've got; particularly those graded above Track and Experienced. I can see a scenario in the future where we have 2000 Track marshals and three Examining Observers to cover them.

And with the ever-increasing cost of transport our newer marshals are already finding that the "warm and fuzzy" feelings are insufficient to patch the gaping hole in their pockets. This will lead to races/circuits where too few marshals are present at each post, and this will lead to even more people opting to stay at home.

I don't know the answer to this, but the problem is going to affect racing clubs and, by default, the MSA, so the answers will have to come from there.

Expenses, at the end of the day are paid by drivers who themselves have hugely increasing costs at club level. Increasing those costs to help fund marshals will lead to smaller grids, poor racing (from a marshal's perspective) and will increase the downward spiral.

I think the higher profile races, particularly F1 which is awash with money, will need to rethink their positions (if not forced to by the FIA) and allow more cash to filter down to support the lower levels of the racing fraternity, from which their racers first came. And that includes marshals.

[MacGWC]

Originally Posted by numbersix

Much as I respect and admire the fine efforts devoted to recruiting new marshals, I fear the greater issue is retaining the ones we've got; particularly those graded above Track and Experienced. I can see a scenario in the future where we have 2000 Track marshals and three Examining Observers to cover them.

And with the ever-increasing cost of transport our newer marshals are already finding that the "warm and fuzzy" feelings are insufficient to patch the gaping hole in their pockets. This will lead to races/circuits where too few marshals are present at each post, and this will lead to even more people opting to stay at home.

I don't know the answer to this, but the problem is going to affect racing clubs and, by default, the MSA, so the answers will have to come from there.

Expenses, at the end of the day are paid by drivers who themselves have hugely increasing costs at club level. Increasing those costs to help fund marshals will lead to smaller grids, poor racing (from a marshal's perspective) and will increase the downward spiral.

I think the higher profile races, particularly F1 which is awash with money, will need to rethink their positions (if not forced to by the FIA) and allow more cash to filter down to support the lower levels of the racing fraternity, from which their racers first came. And that includes marshals.

I think we are singing from the same hymn sheet! Marshals' Club warnings of the great marshalling drift away in 2000, in a report penned by me, went unheeded at first but once the reduced figures became a matter of record - with some circuits running with less than 30 marshals in total - and total figures at less than 40% of what they had been, the penny dropped. It has cost the sport a great deal of money to restore this position.

In business, we always have to remember to look after the house accounts, which almost always are the most likely to produce new business - provided we keep them happy. So, too, is the case with marshals. A great percentage of the marshals BMMC recruits come from the recommendation of existing members (i.e. our house accounts!) and the retention rate here is better than those who enrol via exhibitions and the like.

Hence the current appeal for a little more help for marshals but, as several correspondents have remarked upon, it is time for the top earners from motorsport to chip in a little more than they do now, to keep a few more of our current marshals than we might, as the present financial crisis continues to eat into household budgets like never before in recent years.

[Woolley]

A question, then. Is the problem that the circuits hire out the venue which requires marshalling to be able to run, but the clubs are required to provide the marshals? In other words, the people who might pay expenses are the ones who have no money left after hiring the circuit. They who can afford to pay have no incentive to do so, and those who might want to can't afford to because they've already given it to the other party.

That doesn't apply, of course, to the two highest profile areas, BTCC and F1 who play respectively bugger all and bugger all after 30 years of inflation despite being slightly profitable.

[Nighthawk]

Yes But the MGCC can give a £5 each to the marshals .. And i dont call them a big club...