[WEC Race] 2012 Six Hours of Fuji

[The Badger]

Wow ..... Im impressed !!! ..... I wouldnt have thought he had what Wurz-Lapierre had , so fair dues to him , and fair dues to Toyota for giving him a chance at qualifying , especially on his home turf ....... which he obviously he knows well .

this is shaping up for a great race ..........

[trahsub]

A little off topic...but what is Toyota doing so 'right' in this LMP program that they just could get right in their F1 program?

Just better rules to work with given their (hybrid) expertise?

[Stefvh]

My thought is that the opposition is just not the same.

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by trahsub

Just better rules to work with given their (hybrid) expertise?

Or that Audi simply isn't as good as everyone thought they were.

[gwyllion]

Or maybe it shows that Audi was right when they said at the beginning of the season that the rules favour petrol cars

[tux]

Of course the rules favour petrol cars now, they were always trying to balance a works Audi effort against privateer petrol efforts (Bar AMR). This is the first time we have a seen a proper full on works Petrol effort.

[GT3.14]

The flywheel system in the Audi is a major flaw. It would be interesting to see how it would do with SCs. I have always had the impression Audi gets a little too confident and becomes a little lazy when things are going their way. The R8 was dominant. The R10 was until Peugeot showed up, the 908 was much faster straight from the start. Audi's only hope in the Audi-Peugeot diesel era was that the 908s would break or make a strategy error.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by GT3.14

The flywheel system in the Audi is a major flaw. It would be interesting to see how it would do with SCs.

The philosophy behind the LMP1 rules is that every propulsion technology (petrol, petrol hybrid, diesel, diesel hybrid) has an equal chance at winning a race. It is clear that this was not the case in the last WEC rounds where there were a lot of hybrid activation zones. The R18 ultra could not keep up with the hybrid cars in traffic.

I am sure that Audi knows that their flywheel solution is a compromise. Because of their heavy diesel engine, they can not use supercapacitors. Similarly they could not put the hybrid system on the rear because that would kill the weight distribution.

[aneesh99]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Similarly they could not put the hybrid system on the rear because that would kill the weight distribution.

Oh, I didn't know that. I assumed they went with the front wheel system for marketing purposes.

[tux]

I think the other question you have to ask with Audi is have they become blinkered with Le Mans? For example, when Peugeot were competing with Audi on any "conventional" track they usually had the beating of Audi, but when it came to Le Mans they found it very difficult to match Audi and you could tell Audi had developed the car for lower downforce even when running on higher downforce tracks.

Now you can see that once again the same pattern is emerging, i wont lie i haven't looked for or actively seeked out any speed trap data to support my statements so i could be talking a load of rubbish but it does beg the question. Do Audi only really care about Le Mans?

[GT3.14]

Originally Posted by tux

when it came to Le Mans they found it very difficult to match Audi and you could tell Audi had developed the car for lower downforce even when running on higher downforce tracks.

Le Mans Qualifying
2007
1.Peugeot
2.Audi +.572
3.Peugeot
4.Audi
5.Audi
2008
1.Peugeot
2.Peugeot
3.Peugeot
Nearest Audi was over 5.3 seconds off of the pole time
2009
1.Peugeot
2.Audi +.762
3.Peugeot
4.Pesca Peugeot
5.Peugeot
2010
1.Peugeot
2.Peugeot
3.Peugeot
4.Oreca Peugeot
Nearest Audi +2.270

I don't think Peugeot had any problems with pace at Le Mans.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by aneesh99

Oh, I didn't know that. I assumed they went with the front wheel system for marketing purposes.

They could have just called the car R18 e-tron.

The Audi engineers did a tradeoff analysis and decided that a front hybrid system would be the best solution for them. Toyota came to a different conclusion, but they have the lighter petrol engine and a heavier supercapacitors. Maybe the Audi engineers were wrong as they did not correctly assess the impact on front tyre wear.

[GT3.14]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

They could have just called the car R18 e-tron

I thought the marketing angle was quattro, not e-tron since that could be any hybrid configuration.

[gwyllion]

I meant that if they would have opted for a rear hybrid, the marketing people would have been named it the R18 e-tron. The quattro is just a bonus.

[JAG__]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The philosophy behind the LMP1 rules is that every propulsion technology (petrol, petrol hybrid, diesel, diesel hybrid) has an equal chance at winning a race. It is clear that this was not the case in the last WEC rounds where there were a lot of hybrid activation zones. The R18 ultra could not keep up with the hybrid cars in traffic.

That's the theory for '14 when fuel-fuel and weight will be altered to compensate for different technologies, right now a hybrid system offers a pure performance advantage, in return for a smaller fuel tank.

In fairness, since Sao Paulo, the R18 e-tron has not looked down on power, if anything it's lacking in downforce/grip.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I meant that if they would have opted for a rear hybrid, the marketing people would have been named it the R18 e-tron. The quattro is just a bonus.

Agree.
The only modern marketing chosen technology is the Diesel engines. All other technologies and developments is based on performance which the marketing departments then implement into their needs.

Much like the 908 HDI-FAP would have a particle filter no matter what, Peugeot just chose to marketing the use so the LMP would be "more" road relevant.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by CTD

Much like the 908 HDI-FAP would have a particle filter no matter what, Peugeot just chose to marketing the use so the LMP would be "more" road relevant.

Or the 908 HYbrid4 that had no 4WD whatsoever.

[Purist]

Maybe I missed an earlier discussion, but I've been somewhat surprised at the general lack of comment about the Toyota rear wing arrangement (the two side pieces, and the sort of double-endplate thing going on there).

It reminds a bit of this example of getting around wing length limitations in the rules.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0kdfyNpzYU

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Purist

Maybe I missed an earlier discussion, but I've been somewhat surprised at the general lack of comment about the Toyota rear wing arrangement (the two side pieces, and the sort of double-endplate thing going on there).

It reminds a bit of this example of getting around wing length limitations in the rules.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0kdfyNpzYU

There has been several discussions over the Toyota high rear wheel arch. I think you need to check the Toyota thread and or the Silverstone race thread.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by CTD

There has been several discussions over the Toyota high rear wheel arch. I think you need to check the Toyota thread and or the Silverstone race thread.

Some relevant posts:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...17#post3124317
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...05#post3124605
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...36#post3125536

The analysis on http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsjuly12.html is also a must to read.

[gwyllion]

Warmup will start in 5 minutes.

[Ziemas]

I hope the commentary won't be this out of sync during the race/on the other streams.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Having most of the sessions with video sure is a nice treat. The Asian races are in a sensible time zone for those of us in Western North America too.

[tyronnezx]

guys, where can i watch the race online? im in New Zealand

[gwyllion]

live.fiawec.com