Interesting article on future sportscar racecar

[jcz]

Do you read someone interesting article where is part dedicated to future of sportscar racecar in this link
http://www.sportscarpros.com/cottonb...er/default.htm
What is your opininon.

[tblincoe]

interesting opinion although i don't believe ACO will want all the manufacturers putting their money in GTS while having small privateers win it all in LMP2. if anything ACO will get rid of the LMPs all together and make it a GT race, but i highly doubt that will happen ANYTIME in the near future. i can definitely envision manufacturers investing in GT cars, but i still think LMPs will get support as well. to me, i think a two-pronged effort in the GT and LMP ranks is the way to go for a manufacturer in terms of bang for the buck. if i were say BMW, i would pull out of F1 (a total waste of money right now imo) and put my money in creating a new LMP1, while also racing the M6 in the GT1 ranks. if needed, you could also race the M4 in GT2 too... all 3 programs could run at the same time for much less than a simgle F1 program, and you get to demonstrate your road cars as well as show off your overall technical prowess in LMP1.

[paul-collins]

I have no problem with this GTS-as-top scenario, so long as it's got the full (long-term) support of all the manufacturers. If BMW, Audi, GM, Maser/Ferrari, D/C and Ford go head-to-head, with customer cars required as well...

Build the cars first. Force the ACO hand. I dare ya.

[Garrett]

The way the P1 class is looking, I would have to say that GT1 (GTS) could become the top class to race in. Although, I have herd rumors saying that Porsche, Audi, Mazda, Nissan, and maybe even BMW and Jaguar may return within 2 years time with new P1 cars.:confused:

[jhansen]

Quote from tblincoe: "interesting opinion although i don't believe ACO will want all the manufacturers putting their money in GTS while having small privateers win it all in LMP2"


Basically, the manufacturers ARE putting their money in GT1/GTS at the moment. Both LMP classes are a privateer affair with a few teams (the Audi ones) reaping the rewards of having a manufacturer developed car.

Interesting about Dave Richards wanting to go sportscar racing at some point. And that Dr. Goh was at the unveiling of the DBR9.

This is a good read and definitely gets you thinking about the future of this sport.

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by paul-collins
I have no problem with this GTS-as-top scenario, so long as it's got the full (long-term) support of all the manufacturers. If BMW, Audi, GM, Maser/Ferrari, D/C and Ford go head-to-head, with customer cars required as well...

Build the cars first. Force the ACO hand. I dare ya.

I guess someone has to take the other viewpoint, so here goes..... (I've done this before, of course).

The day the 24 Hours becomes prototype-less, IMO the event and the ACO will pay the penalty. The GTs, in the various classes, will, for me, always be the support acts. Does a manufacturer want a class win at Le Mans or to actually win the 24 Heures du Mans outright? I guess its becoming increasingly clear that they're prepared to be content with class wins. For me, if Le Mans ever becomes a "GTS-as-top" situation, the outright winner will still just be a GTS class winner........

(Its my opinion and I'm entitled to it...... )

[jhansen]

Well I've really offered no viewpoint, but I firmly support the prototypes. They are my first love and indeed were the first racing cars I ever saw. The Lola T600 driven by Brian Redman at Laguna Seca-'81 caught my eye immediately. In my opinion they belong at the top of the sportscar world and should stay there.

The health of this sport is also of great importance to me. It's hard to argue with the manufacturers when they would rather invest in the GT categories. And that has not decreased the importance of the prototypes, which the ACO has assured (for now). As I stated in a thread in the IRL forum, manufacturer involvement is a fickel thing. One cannot simply force them to support a particular class or style of racing. They will come and go as they please. And we as fans don't have much choice but to put up with it.

For some though, watching the Vettes, Aston Martins, Maseratis, et al battle for GT1 honors, will be more interesting than watching RfH, Pescarolo, Rollcentre, et al battle for the top spot overall. To each their own.

But Le Mans will roll on as it always has.

[917Addicted]

Let's see guys the future (it seems that it comes around). By this time next year, IMHO we'll see that the Mazza is really too far ahead, so manufacturers will begin building supercars just to try and be as fast as the italian travesti (see 1996/1997 with the F1GTR + 911GT1 and the other "gt1"). I'll say in two years, car makers will then abandon GT1 because of costs (now they are not building new lmp1s as they are afraid of the Audi streamrollers).
So, IMHO, the new GT1 won't have that mush future (I really think the 550s, 575s, Lamborghinis, Astons and C6R are no match for the Maserati).

[SALEEN S7R]

Personally Im all for the GT1 class to to be the top spot. Sure manufacturers will come and go, but thats always been the situation, just take the LMP 900/LMP 1 class for example back in say 2001 Le Mans was thriving, this years LMP 1/900 field in comparissan was pretty poor. Things do, and always have done and always will change, if more and more manufacturers continue to join GT1 then the ACO really will have no option in the long term other than to make the GT1 class the premier class, or at least level with the LMP 1 cars, a situation a bit like LM 1999 where the LMP 900 and GT1 cars (yes I know offically GT1 ended in 1998) ran pretty much side by side on pace.

Next year I can really see the GT1 machinery dipping down into the 3:47's and even a 3:46 lap time for the GT1 pole, and with the ACO cutting back the speed of the old LMP 900 machines and the fact there will be no major factory support in the LMP 1 class (other than Zytek) I think we could see lap times in P1 at around 3:35 - now sure the P1 cars would have a performance advantage over the GT1 cars, but would they have a reliabilty advantage? My money is on the GT1 cars being more reliable.

Next years LM should be a cracker, in GT1 we will have lots of factory run cars, and factory supported run cars. Maserati, Corvette, Aston Martin, all factory run machines, and works supported Saleen's (ACEMCO), and possibly works supported Lambourgini Murciealgos, combined with the 575's and 550s howling down the mulsanne straight. At least thats what COULD happen, lets hope the ACO give the GT1/GTS class a few more entries than the 10 or so spaces they normally get. They can surley no longer be given the smallest number of places, when they are the strongest supported class....

[jhansen]

But Saleen, the GT1 cars of 1998 and the GTP cars of 1999 (which were the same) were essentially prototypes anyways. One road going example, give me a break. So that point is moot. And I don't see the GT1 fiasco happening again as the rules for GT1/GTS are more restrictive. They've also gone to the ACO regs, which are more restrictive. But the competition is fierce in this class and the cars will get faster and more sophisticated. Guess what folks, that's racing. And I agree, give GT1/GTS more entries in 2005. 2004's field was pathetic. I would certainly advocate more GT1 entries over LMP2 entries, which is just like "Survivor" the reality show.

OT: As for LMP reliability versus GTS reliability, I'm not so sure you're correct on that Saleen. Maybe a privateer LMP would be less reliable than a factory or works GTS car. But in recent years the Audis and Bentleys smoked the top GTS cars in total time in the pits.

[SALEEN S7R]

Jeremy - with regards to the factory GTS cars having a reliabilty advantage over the P1 Machinery I forgot to add that I only meant the Privater LMP1 machinery. And seeing as thats what we will have on the grid for next year, apart from perhaps 1 factory Zytek and a RFH works Dome. Neither of which are particulary reliable at this point in time.

[LouisTheShark]

The new ACO/FIA rules for prototypes are not even in full use yet and they are already being written off as a failure? yeiks!

Super GT cars are the wave of the future? Kurt, please tell me it ain't so!

I guess in the U.S. we can always look forward to a bunch of cost efficient Shaw Chassis Technology open cockpit cars running second fiddle to the factory powerhouse GTS/GT1 (Hmmm GT? whatever we call the big motors this year) cars. That ought to attract the buyers!!!

Being serious, what makes anyone think that privateers are more willing to shell out cash for GTS cars (actually two of them), when reasonably competitive LMP cars are available for half the price?

[tblincoe]

dont worry LMPs aren't going anywhere for a good while... sure there is a wave of manufacturers in GT1 for next year, but in 2006 the LMP scene will be just as strong with new LMPs from a variety of manufacturers and teams... just look at the LMP2 class. if you build it they will come.

[MulsanneMike]

GT1s as the top class would be pure folly. Think we are hamstrung by manufacturer involvment in LMP? Least we have the specialist like Lola that can keep the category alive. Not so for GT1. It absolutely requires the manufacturers and that is a very dangerous position.

[Asa]

GTs seem to be able to run on their own. Can prototypes survive on their own without the GTs? Fact is that no series run purely prototypes at the moment.

The traditional Le Mans needs prototypes, but there are so many GTs now one day the GTs could have their own Le Mans, just as they do now with the Spa 24 Hours.

[kdr]

i have no problem with the gts supercars racing equally with the prototypes. less 911s would be nice though. oh and no bmw m5s please.

[Regis]

Very astute observation, Mike.

Originally posted by MulsanneMike
GT1s as the top class would be pure folly. Think we are hamstrung by manufacturer involvment in LMP? Least we have the specialist like Lola that can keep the category alive. Not so for GT1. It absolutely requires the manufacturers and that is a very dangerous position.

[SALEEN S7R]

Yes, but the GT's dont NEED the manufacturers. As long as there are sportscars being built they will be developed by privateer operations, like Prodrive and Oreca for competition use and then run by privateers. We dont actually NEED factory involvement for the GT's. And yes there are people like Lola, Dome, Courage, Dallara etc that keep the LMP's alive, just. But really and truly the GT1 cars are at this point in time the future of sportscar racing. How many top drivers, teams and manufacturers have to say this before people will listen? First it was GM, then Prodrive came along with the 550, now Maserati and now prodrive are back with the Aston and Saleen is on its way back too with ACEMCO - not forgetting the Murciealgos with ocassional assitance from Reiter, then we have all the 550s/575s etc. The GT1 cars are coming, and they will continue to become stronger and stronger whether we like it or not.

[Mal]

DSC have posted a response to Michael Cottons article, saying that the key to good sportscar racing is the multi class system with significant speed differentials between each class thus provide plenty of overtaking and entertainment throughout each race. Also saying that whilst it is good that the manufacturers are coming in, they also tend to come and go, whereas some of the private constructors such as Courage, Dome, Lola etc have built and supported the ACO's races for years and should not be forgotten.

[tblincoe]

two thumbs up for DSC's counterpoints... my thoughts exactly and good read as well, i suggest checking it out.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by Mal
DSC have posted a response to Michael Cottons article, saying that the key to good sportscar racing is the multi class system with significant speed differentials between each class thus provide plenty of overtaking and entertainment throughout each race. Also saying that whilst it is good that the manufacturers are coming in, they also tend to come and go, whereas some of the private constructors such as Courage, Dome, Lola etc have built and supported the ACO's races for years and should not be forgotten.

It is a sad day when the editor at DSC condones managed racing.
He mentioned they slowed the GTS cars down as they were getting to close to the LMPs, egad NASCARization has now infested the brain of one of sports car racing's web promoters.

A damn shame his closing logic is preceded by condoning farcical racing rules.
Bob

[Regis]

Its a sad day when we have to skim over yet another one of your reactionary posts Bob!

[jhansen]

I don't always agree with Bob, but I'm not thrilled at the prospect of slowing down the GT classes just to keep the gap between the prototypes. Racing is about development and progress. And due to the lack of manufacturer involvement the progression and development of the prototypes has been minimal. Once the manufacturers fully adopt the new regulations we will see speeds increase. Even with rule changes meant to slow cars manufacturers are clever enough to find improvements. The protos will still reign supreme regardless.

Right now the GT classes are seeing a lot of manufacturer involvement and we should be allowed to see how fast these machines can go. In fact, I wish the ACO would have adopted some of the FIA GT's rules so we can see the true potential of cars like the Saleen and Lambo, which are far too restricted in ACO trim.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by Regis
Its a sad day when we have to skim over yet another one of your reactionary posts Bob!

Then don't.
Run quickly now, during the time you took to read this the rest of the lemming herd are getting away.;p

Bob

[eddsc]

NASCARisation? What on earth are you on about?
It seems perfectly logical to me: cars get faster and faster over time, so at some point they need to be slowed down. 3:48 for GTS this year was faster than almost everyone predicted - and the ACO reacted, very sensibly, in my view.
I'm all for managing the speeds of the different classes to create clear differentiation. In FIA GTs, the GT and N-GT cars are too close for comfort. The ACO rightly comes in for some stick over the ridiculous Dallara entry this year, for example, but I was acknowledging something that they do well.
Hardly NASCARisation.
MC