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Old 3 May 2015, 22:26 (Ref:3533778)   #501
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It is for Le Mans. Low drag is definitely what you need. I hope they can test again before the test day. They need to understand the car better.
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Old 4 May 2015, 12:44 (Ref:3533962)   #502
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Damian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDamian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDamian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
They spent 2/3 of the race at the pits, so if they had a broken part in the suspension, I'm sure they didn't have a spare part. If they should had, they should been doing more laps.
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Old 4 May 2015, 12:58 (Ref:3533966)   #503
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From sportcar365

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ByKolles Racing has continued to struggle with its CLM P1/01 AER, with the LMP1 Privateer entry yet to record a finish this year. While the car saw significant aero and suspension updates at Spa, brake issues resulted in a retirement for the Christian Klien, Simon Tummer and Vitantonio Liuzzi-driven car.
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Old 4 May 2015, 13:24 (Ref:3533973)   #504
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a new other team
A new other team ?

And I cant understand why they have decent drivers in it , I bet that costs too .
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Old 4 May 2015, 13:53 (Ref:3533986)   #505
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I'm not sure why people have a problem with this team showing up and running a car. Ten years ago we seemed to like the plucky privateer teams showing up with their own designs (Lavaggi anyone?) In the past we didn't attack the teams for having an uncompetitive car, and I still maintain that stance. But to each his own I guess.
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Old 4 May 2015, 14:15 (Ref:3533994)   #506
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NB. The following is not my opinion, I'm just playing devil's advocate.

Ten years ago there weren't four manufacturers with serious prototype efforts. Expectations in general have been raised, and privateer efforts that before would have been applauded for showing up and lasting the race are now derided for somehow distracting from the overall appeal.
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Old 4 May 2015, 14:17 (Ref:3533996)   #507
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They have one thing going for them i say.Best looking P1 of the bunch.Although i would change that colour scheme.
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Old 4 May 2015, 14:21 (Ref:3534000)   #508
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I'm not sure why people have a problem with this team showing up and running a car. Ten years ago we seemed to like the plucky privateer teams showing up with their own designs (Lavaggi anyone?) In the past we didn't attack the teams for having an uncompetitive car, and I still maintain that stance. But to each his own I guess.
I think the issue isn't really with the effort, rather who is in charge of it. Rebellion seems to be well liked.

But this team has been a little bit of a joke really. It was a Lotus through sticker engineering. And it was a factory backed P2, which was a bit questionable. And then it was something in between and nobody really knew what it was.

Now it's being run by a rather unpopular man, who has made a lot of enemies in the motorsport world through his comments and how he has conducted himself. Whilst I support the idea of giant killers turning up and trying to get one over the big guys, I can't really support Kolles with his history in the sport tbh.
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Old 4 May 2015, 14:27 (Ref:3534003)   #509
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I think the issue isn't really with the effort, rather who is in charge of it. Rebellion seems to be well liked.

But this team has been a little bit of a joke really. It was a Lotus through sticker engineering. And it was a factory backed P2, which was a bit questionable. And then it was something in between and nobody really knew what it was.

Now it's being run by a rather unpopular man, who has made a lot of enemies in the motorsport world through his comments and how he has conducted himself. Whilst I support the idea of giant killers turning up and trying to get one over the big guys, I can't really support Kolles with his history in the sport tbh.
Honestly? I dont think many people even think about Colin when they see this project, he has been in the background the whole time.

I think J Jay has hit the nail on the head, a few years ago you would have had teams like Pescarolo, Creation, Zytek, AMR etc all running behind Audi which meant the smaller efforts like Lavaggi were "distracted" from.
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Old 4 May 2015, 17:27 (Ref:3534054)   #510
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NB. The following is not my opinion, I'm just playing devil's advocate.

Ten years ago there weren't four manufacturers with serious prototype efforts. Expectations in general have been raised, and privateer efforts that before would have been applauded for showing up and lasting the race are now derided for somehow distracting from the overall appeal.
That is a valid point, the bar has been raised by the factories. But for me I still enjoy seeing these smaller efforts competing. I have no problem with a team turning up with no chance of winning. I like seeing the Mazdas and Deltawing in IMSA, and I like seeing the Kolles in WEC. If for no other reason than the variety.
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Old 4 May 2015, 17:54 (Ref:3534063)   #511
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Damian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDamian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDamian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Rebellion was a disaster last year with the new car (slower than the P2 too). I think it's not easy for small teams like these. At least ByKolles brought an updated car and not the same car we saw last year, that would be critacable.

I think that it would be good to have Rebellion and Kolles fighting by the end of the season. Plus if a new team makes the jump from P2 to P1.
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Old 4 May 2015, 18:44 (Ref:3534073)   #512
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That is a valid point, the bar has been raised by the factories. But for me I still enjoy seeing these smaller efforts competing. I have no problem with a team turning up with no chance of winning. I like seeing the Mazdas and Deltawing in IMSA, and I like seeing the Kolles in WEC. If for no other reason than the variety.
You do, as do I and many others here. For that I thank you

But do you think this opinion is shared by the majority of the new fans that have been brought in from the single-seater-series-that-shall-not-be-named? These people have been (understandably IMO) wowed by the sheer technical brilliance of the factory cars, drivers and teams and the freedom to race. To them the likes of Rebellion and Kolles aren't racing because they're not at the sharp end.

They don't have an appreciation of the history of privateer efforts in sportscars. This will come in time (well, it did with me...) but until then if it isn't within two seconds a lap it's nowhere.
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Old 4 May 2015, 19:28 (Ref:3534084)   #513
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bentley speed 8 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridbentley speed 8 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I really like the new paintjob and upgraded car. I hope they can at least stick around for a bit longer on the track, even just for added variety.
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Old 6 May 2015, 02:22 (Ref:3534591)   #514
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nasdriv87 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
btw guys...

How much HP this AER engine is deploying after this upgrade now???
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Old 6 May 2015, 06:18 (Ref:3534609)   #515
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btw guys...

How much HP this AER engine is deploying after this upgrade now???
Good question. And I'd be interested to know how much power it could make.
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Old 6 May 2015, 07:57 (Ref:3534643)   #516
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judging by the fuel flow rate of no ERS class, 106kg/h, even better than F1 fuel flow standard, clearly the power output should be not less than 550hp, close to 600hp maybe. Anyway all that power is useless without an overall good package (who said kolles car?)
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Old 6 May 2015, 09:11 (Ref:3534664)   #517
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claude2cv should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridclaude2cv should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridclaude2cv should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridclaude2cv should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
But do you think this opinion is shared by the majority of the new fans that have been brought in from the single-seater-series-that-shall-not-be-named? .[/QUOTE]

If they come from that background then they are well used to smaller teams with no hope of competing at the sharp end :-)
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Old 6 May 2015, 09:26 (Ref:3534666)   #518
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The maximum power of the AER V6 twin-turbo engine will be comparable to what the Toyota V8 NA engine was providing, but it will deliver the power very consistently and in a very different way, particularly at a much much lower rpm, also the torque curve will be very high and flat, about double what the Toyota was producing, so the team will have the ability to drive the engine in a very high performance format, but not actually revving the engine very high, therefore going fast while saving a lot of fuel and they will not need to pit so many times to re-fill with fuel......like they did with the high revving nature of the Toyota engine........

my only beef with the AER engine is its twin turbo, and all the extra pipework will create a a fair bit of aero-drag for the air exiting the rear of the chassis, I really think they should have considered a single turbo arrangement and kept the side flanks of the engine as clean an un-intrusive as possible, much like Audi and F1 have done.......the reason for going twin turbo is normally throttle response, but really this can easily be overcome with a single turbo, so it would not surprise me in the future to see this option happen on the AER engine, as it will benefit the overall chassis aero package significantly.

Last edited by knighty; 6 May 2015 at 09:48.
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Old 6 May 2015, 10:09 (Ref:3534670)   #519
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The maximum power of the AER V6 twin-turbo engine will be comparable to what the Toyota V8 NA engine was providing, but it will deliver the power very consistently and in a very different way, particularly at a much much lower rpm, also the torque curve will be very high and flat, about double what the Toyota was producing, so the team will have the ability to drive the engine in a very high performance format, but not actually revving the engine very high, therefore going fast while saving a lot of fuel and they will not need to pit so many times to re-fill with fuel......like they did with the high revving nature of the Toyota engine........

my only beef with the AER engine is its twin turbo, and all the extra pipework will create a a fair bit of aero-drag for the air exiting the rear of the chassis, I really think they should have considered a single turbo arrangement and kept the side flanks of the engine as clean an un-intrusive as possible, much like Audi and F1 have done.......the reason for going twin turbo is normally throttle response, but really this can easily be overcome with a single turbo, so it would not surprise me in the future to see this option happen on the AER engine, as it will benefit the overall chassis aero package significantly.
the old toyota 3.4L V8 during his SGT500 days was able to produce about 400Nm and over 500hp in a range of 9000rpm (restricted engine); being heavily updated and reworked since 2012, I think that the actual 3.7L should be able to produce in a range of 500-550Nm with a redline set to 8500rpm. Hp output should be more than 550hp but less than 600hp (just my opinion).
The exact displacement of the AER engine is unknown, but it should be 3.5 or 4.0L. The twin turbo surely gives to the engine a flat and insane torque release; I guess >700Nm, most of that available already at lowest rpm and the redline should be in a range of 6000-6500rpm.
At spa the CLM had a top speed in the same range of the toyota's and the HD R18 #9... considering the shamefull downforce amount of the car, maybe that top speed is quite disappointing but we don't know other factors the gearbox setting (at spa debuted a new gearbox but sincerly I don't know if is a 7speed gb or an old 6speed xtrac)
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Old 6 May 2015, 15:30 (Ref:3534777)   #520
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the old toyota 3.4L V8 during his SGT500 days was able to produce about 400Nm and over 500hp in a range of 9000rpm (restricted engine); being heavily updated and reworked since 2012, I think that the actual 3.7L should be able to produce in a range of 500-550Nm with a redline set to 8500rpm. Hp output should be more than 550hp but less than 600hp (just my opinion).
The exact displacement of the AER engine is unknown, but it should be 3.5 or 4.0L. The twin turbo surely gives to the engine a flat and insane torque release; I guess >700Nm, most of that available already at lowest rpm and the redline should be in a range of 6000-6500rpm.
At spa the CLM had a top speed in the same range of the toyota's and the HD R18 #9... considering the shamefull downforce amount of the car, maybe that top speed is quite disappointing but we don't know other factors the gearbox setting (at spa debuted a new gearbox but sincerly I don't know if is a 7speed gb or an old 6speed xtrac)
So I think we generally agree.....but the Rebellion customer Toyota V8 was a 3.4L displacement only for Rebellion......the factory Toyota version is a completely bespoke design for LMP1 and it was increased to 3.7L and only used by the factory team........honestly I think high revving NA was a bad engine choice, even for the factory team, 3.7L is still quite small, and I personally believe this is one of the possible causes of their demise this year, its just not efficient, and they are working beyond its sensible efficiency envelope.....the advanced pressure-charged engines from Audi and Porsche will wipe the floor with Toyotas old NA motor this year I'm quite sure......but the trouble now days is the KERS systems are a huge factor, so its hard to differentiate between engines like a few years ago......hey ho, onwards and uprawds........it does seem the Kolles car is a mish-mash of new stuff and they have only so far partially unraveled it, they out qualified the LMP2's, so I guess they are making progress in the right direction......but it does seem that Kolles LMP1 are a latter day Lavaggi type team who are seriously under resourced and they use a dyson connected to an old shoe box as a wind tunnel, but best of luck to them none the less, Like I said before LMP1 needs a few plucky privateers
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Old 6 May 2015, 16:17 (Ref:3534798)   #521
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Damian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDamian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDamian Baldi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Any of you know how much turbo boost the AES uses? It was easy to get 700HP in the Group-c era with the flat six 3.2 engine. They only had the limitation of fuel per race.
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Old 6 May 2015, 16:28 (Ref:3534803)   #522
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actually the 3.4L V8 was used also by toyota in 2012 and 2013; anyway enlarging an engine from 3.4L to 3.7L I don't think there is a so huge torque gain. >500Nm from a NA 3.4-3.7 is already a great achievement but as you say, and I agree, a small and highrev NA engine can never match the efficiency of a turbo engine.
It's not only about power release but also about future improvements!
I guess that the toyota motor reached his best already, while porsche motor efficiency can be further improved (more power, less consumes).

About kolles car... don't forget that more or less is just a modified adess lmp2 chassis to fit the AER engine.
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Old 6 May 2015, 17:08 (Ref:3534820)   #523
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About kolles car... don't forget that more or less is just a modified adess lmp2 chassis to fit the AER engine.
The tub is the same (as the Oreca/Rebellion), but currently it has a new gearbox, part of the bodywork is new, and suspension was modified.
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Old 6 May 2015, 17:11 (Ref:3534821)   #524
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Any of you know how much turbo boost the AES uses? It was easy to get 700HP in the Group-c era with the flat six 3.2 engine. They only had the limitation of fuel per race.
I can assure you the boost figures will never be released by AER, but based on previous experience it will actually be very low, probably only in the region of 1 to 1.5 bar gauge, the trick now days is a highly efficient intercooling system that cools the charge intake temp to about 40 to 45 degC.....hence, low boost = low temp = high air density = better cylinder filling = more power.....I will be very surprised if the boost is over 2 bar gauge......low boost also = good throttle response, so win-win everywhere......yes thd CLM is a bodge/conversion of an Lmp2 car.....
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Old 6 May 2015, 17:39 (Ref:3534838)   #525
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Toyota (Kinoshita) said their ideal engine would be a 4L NA V8. I think they reduced the revs this year, but they probably use the capacitor to supplement the lack of low end grunt something like a turbo or diesel would give. Too bad we dont know the official numbers on these engines.
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