.....or Forever Hold Your Peace

[Mike Bell]

Seeing as this thread appears to have taken over driving standards discussion from driving standards thread, interesting during Austrian GP qualifying that Charlie Whiting had to send a written bulletin to teams declaring that exceeding track limits at turn 8 would mean lap time cancelled. Nothing about any other corners, as only turn 8 was deemed to give an advantage...... So OK to cut all other corners! Maybe in race the rule interpretation will change again?

Down the road at the 'Ring, an early accident in the 24hr VLN race resulted in the car deemed to have caused it being excluded from the race, then and there. No faffing about......

[Adam43]

To be clear, I realise why it is perceived relevant (it's obvious). However we should state it isn't, act in a way that it isn't, and set the example above that. Then attitudes will change.

Originally Posted by midgetman

Same in motor sport, repeated showing and praising of bash and crash racing or of driving off the circuit gradually makes it commonplace and therefore acceptable.

So let's point or, repeatedly if necessary, that it is irrelevant to club motorsport.

[Mike Harte]

Well, it seems as though my fears have been proven to be correct.

If today's GP is the yardstick by which driving standards are to be judged, then it has now been officially sanctioned by the FIA that no penalty applies if you hit the car in front if you are attempting to overtake.

This ruling comes about from the incident involving Vettel, and is reported on the Autosport website: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114595

It must mean that it's open season for those who are unable to race within what I, I know an old fart, consider to be appropriate driving standards.

[Clive Brown]

But Vettel is a quadruple World Champion, and therefore it can't be his fault....

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

But Vettel is a quadruple World Champion, and therefore it can't be his fault....

Clive, I am quite certain that you have your tongue firmly in your cheek, but this will be the problem when Johnny Fastboy is on the Coc's carpet. All he will now have to say to the Fat Clerk is that it must be OK because that nice Mr Vettel is allowed to do it in Formula 1.

[Clive Brown]

[Mike Harte]

I apologise to those that believe that I am going on a bit about this matter, but it really gets me incenced!

I am sure that somewhere in the annals of the rules and regulations for motor-sport that it states that it is a non-contact activity; this obviously excludes things like demolition derbies.

But now the rules have been changed, it seems, so as to allow those drivers who can be paid many millions of dollars to compete in 19 or 20 races per year just because someone who shall remain nameless is worried about declining viewing numbers.

What really scares him is that nobody will want to renew the TV rights contracts because the costs of the contracts outweigh the TV companies revenue streams for those broadcasts.

It's all about the money and those who come up with these stupid decisions don't even consider the driver's potential safety.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Adam43

So let's point or, repeatedly if necessary, that it is irrelevant to club motorsport.

My feeling is that the power of TV is greater than we can exert at the moment. How can we change that?

The Vettel thing really wasn't so much of a driving standards thing, more that It Happens.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by midgetman

My feeling is that the power of TV is greater than we can exert at the moment. How can we change that?

Don't try to change everyone. Just target those who are more important to the cause.
It is doable, and in some places, has already been achieved.

[Mike Harte]

See: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114607

[John Turner]

Yes, Bernie but it was you and your cronies that have made it unaffordable. Perhaps, in preference, you should shrink!

[Al Weyman]

Well Autosport were full of the crashfest that was the Euro NASCAR's at Speedfest with not hardly if any mention of Bernies races which by comparison the drivers drove fast but with respect and with no major incidents with some very expensive machines especially in Bernies Big Bangers. So how do you stop that, thats down to journalists choosing what they wish to report on. As Bernie stated in his newsletter, the Euro NASCAR need some lessons in the US on how NASCAR operates. I was in Daytona when these cars turned up (French Euro NASCAR) and the clerk of the course was so incensed by their antics he pulled the lot of them in and said one more on track incident and he was sending lot of them home! AT Brands, nothing as far as I know despite many broken cars and incidents.

[gt917]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Well Autosport were full of the crashfest that was the Euro NASCAR's at Speedfest with not hardly if any mention of Bernies races which by comparison the drivers drove fast but with respect and with no major incidents with some very expensive machines especially in Bernies Big Bangers. So how do you stop that, thats down to journalists choosing what they wish to report on. As Bernie stated in his newsletter, the Euro NASCAR need some lessons in the US on how NASCAR operates. I was in Daytona when these cars turned up (French Euro NASCAR) and the clerk of the course was so incensed by their antics he pulled the lot of them in and said one more on track incident and he was sending lot of them home! AT Brands, nothing as far as I know despite many broken cars and incidents.

Al,

I agree with what you have said, and the coverage that was given by Autosport and Motoring News to Bernies races was simply pathetic and shamefull.
There were, however, several incidents caused by one of "our" drivers. and I hope Bernie does take the necessary action.

[John Turner]

Guys, Mike and I were talking about Ecclestone.

There's a very good reason why Autosport doesn't give as much coverage on some club races now. Hardly anyone except those involved in the race or a few spectators read it. The few that complain of it's absence are probably the only ones who would have read it anyway. I could go on but I'll keep my powder dry for the inevitable backlash.

[Adam43]

As someone who does read it, but for the exact reasons you say it does not surprise me. Why would anyone want to read about what I do on a Sunday afternoon?

To get this back on topic, perhaps that is what is needed. Less coverage in the comics. Then it will be obvious that F1 and BTCC aren't relevant. Put club racing in the same mag and some people will simply think it is the same. Even though it obviously isn't.

[gt917]

Yes, yes, yes, we know they were talking about Ecclestone, but the subject was/is about historic motorsport driving standards and as the Superfest meeting was in front of huge crowds and contained historic content from home and abroad, then I thought it did warrant some attention.

[John Turner]

Ok, ok, ok, noted! I'll save that off topic bit for another day!

[Chigley]

Put club racing in the same mag and some people will simply think it is the same. Even though it obviously isn't.

and as the majority of joe public have contact with motorsport via the TV how do you change that perspective? The change in driving ethics and standards has to start at the top and work down. B.E. and the FIA changing the regs week by week to generate "entertainment" gives the impression that anything goes as long as the crowd like it.

That isn't motor"SPORT" (emphasis not shouting) it's motorcommerce.

[Mike Harte]

[Adam43]

Why does it have to start at the top and work down? Can't we take a little responsibility to look after our own standards? I see the influence, but I feel we would be far better off working on what we can control rather than relying and expecting someone else to do it.

Besides what has public perception of BTCC got to do with it? Do they come to historic motorsport and expect the same? I suspect most don't, if they come at all.

Someone at work asked me if I saw the BTCC on telly. I said I hadn't and he replied that he enjoyed it but it wasn't real motorsport. He got how the driving standards in that are not relevant to club racing.

Sorry to repeat the irrelevance point , but the BTCC is.

[Al Weyman]

So why don't they just call BTCC a stock car like contact sport and be done.

[Mike Bell]

In another attempt to divert this thread away from driving standards one of the other points for discussion at the meeting was from a 3 wheeler racer, so I assume one of the pre war Morgans. The request was that all radiator overflows on race cars should be either fed into a catch tank or to one side or other. The reason for the request was that the third middle drive wheel of his / her car often ran in coolant trails left by other cars.

The simple answer put forward by one, tongue in cheek, was to swap the 3 wheeler for something with four wheels. But, coolant loss can be issue, more because of the glycol or whatever if antifreeze is used. It can be very slippery and reluctant to evaporate quickly. Am I right in thinking that if racing in the USA antifreeze is not allowed for that reason?

And do the water substitutes we see advertised now have the same effect if spilled?

[Cliff Ryan]

Yes Mike, you are correct that you are not allowed to race in US with antifreeze in your coolant system, it has to be water. The scrutineers can check as part of their tech inspection (scrutineering) and always ask what is in the system, for that very reason.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Cliff Ryan

Yes Mike, you are correct that you are not allowed to race in US with antifreeze in your coolant system, it has to be water. The scrutineers can check as part of their tech inspection (scrutineering) and always ask what is in the system, for that very reason.

I thought you would know!

So who knows the result of water-wetter or suchlike on track?

[Moosehead]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

I thought you would know!

So who knows the result of water-wetter or suchlike on track?

Don't know about on track but if you spill it on your floor it can be pretty slippy and very difficult to remove. Not sure how I know that