Do muscle cars belong in GT racing?

[MJ_N_09]

I'm liking this thread. Alot. It'd be great to see more makes in GT, and I'd love even more the tears/opposition from the Ferrari and Porsche boys if one of these said makes brings the fight to the two said makes.

Like what Down F0rce said, "Run what ya brung I say!"

[gucom]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

That's why I have been saying for years that there needs to be a revival of a GTU-kind of class, at least in the US, but I'd also love to see that here in Europe... That's also one of the issues with Grand Am GT, which tries to combine potential GTO with potential GTU-cars like the Mazda, though I wonder if that may change if they introduce GT3 rules...

so would you propose having these GTU cars at Le Mans or other top-class GT racing, or keep the GTU-like cars in the lower classes?

[JAG]

Why not have a support race for stock muscle cars and run it before the main event. That way you could have 20-30 car grids and could even look into allowing tuners cars.

Add to the variety and appeal of the ALMS package rather than trying to make a muscle car, at huge expense, competitive with Ferrari's, Porsche's and Mclaren's in GTE or GTC.

[dj4monie]

I love the Marc VDS car, too bad they had some legality issues with the car and decided it was too late to make changes and re-submit with only 3-4 races to go.

But there's the rest of the year and testing down in Spain or somewhere in Southern Europe during the winter to iron out any further kinks.

If ALMS opened up GTC to GT3, I would get a pair of these and a be an instant fan favorite.

The reason I got banned is largely over the fact I felt the Mustang could be competitive with Europeans best if kept within reason, it just got out of control and personal.

[MJ_N_09]

^ Well...shoulda held you tongue better I guess. It's not worth it.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by gucom

so would you propose having these GTU cars at Le Mans or other top-class GT racing, or keep the GTU-like cars in the lower classes?

Not sure about Le Mans, but have them definitely in IMSA and depending on numbers also in LMS and as an undercard to GT3 in national European GT-series...

Perhaps use the Scirroccos from Nürburgring 24 hours (or SP3T in general) as a baseline for the class:







But then, that's of cause just my wishfull thinking, and I must be content with seeing these cars in VLN... man, I love that Astra...

BTW: the Scirrocco is quite the beast and has repeatedly embarassed Porsche GT3 Cup drivers at the Ring this year - so this GTU-class wouldn't really be a lot slower than GTC is right now. (And open up the series to a different demographics).

[JAG]

Cars like the above are what the DTM should be running rather than the ridiculous (for touring cars) silhouettes.

[MJ_N_09]

Yeah, it would be awesome to see hot hatches like the Golf R32 and Focus RS at GT2-3 performance.

[fiend540]

Originally Posted by MJ_N_09

/end topic. Seriously though, the Spa thread was frustrating to read because of this.

Yes, glad to see someone else shares the same point of view.

[NaBUru38]

How far is GT4 and Grand-Am Challenge GS from what you propose? Those are inexpensive sports cars, aren't they?

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

How far is GT4 and Grand-Am Challenge GS from what you propose? Those are inexpensive sports cars, aren't they?

They are virtually the same specification. The GS cars go about 200 miles which is considerably longer than a typical GT4 race. I think its largely to do with fuel tank sizes and a few other minor things.

A Belgian team bought a Grand Am Spec Mustang and ran it in GT4. I believe its VDS Racing.

Reghan Racing was/is selling both the #59 and #60 cars from last year's Championship. The #59 was the Championship car. New the FR500C I believe is about $100,000US (about $90,000 Used). The new Boss 302R is $180,000 in Grand Am GS trim. Its about $120,000 if you want to use it in another Championship such as NASA American Iron, SCCA American Sedan all Club Level racing. I'm sure a GT4 car could be build based off the GS trim car for about the same. The FR500's in Europe were being sold by Matech, but there web site has not be updated to reflect the new car being available.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by JAG

Cars like the above are what the DTM should be running rather than the ridiculous (for touring cars) silhouettes.

Originally Posted by MJ_N_09

Yeah, it would be awesome to see hot hatches like the Golf R32 and Focus RS at GT2-3 performance.

Series should be adjusted to reflect what's available currently, especially when it comes to production based race cars.

As myself and Speed King had said, a GT3 series with a Touring class below it would have been just fine instead of having their KTM and Aerial Atom type track day cars which are only kinda popular in Europe and likely more expensive than a Sirocco R or the Astra OPC that run in the same class in the VLN.

Grand Am ST has 25-30 cars every race weekend. It could work in Europe, since its home of the hot hatch and almost everybody has a car they could race in it.

[I Rosputnik]

(Three posts in one!)

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Yup, loved that car in the old "Sportscar GT" game...

I remember that Mustang from Gran Turismo 2!

***

I could see the Camaro and the Mustang in GT1 or LMGT. I'm not sure about the Challenger. It's a bit big, but then again Godzilla (The Nissan GTR) is blasting through GT1 at the front.

This image I found on wikipedia gives an idea of what a racing Challenger would look like, and it looks good for a Nascar!

***

How about a two door Ford Falcon in GT racing?

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by JAG

Why not have a support race for stock muscle cars and run it before the main event. That way you could have 20-30 car grids and could even look into allowing tuners cars.

You mean what Trans-Am once was?

I'd personally love to see a souped-up version of the new Challenger race.

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

How about a two door Ford Falcon in GT racing?

Already exists...sorta.

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan

Already exists...sorta.

I know, but it would be awesome.

[Subaru_WRX_STi]

did the Bimmer M3 belong in GT racing? ^^

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by Subaru_WRX_STi

did the Bimmer M3 belong in GT racing? ^^

Ah, but it has two doors, and is classed as a coupe! Also M3's have raced in sportscar racing before.

But that is for another thread.

(Post 250! Time for an avatar!)

[bludd billz]

I think it is a good idea to allow makes that don't fit the traditional GT mold. More people can identify with these cars, which means there is a potential for attracting more fans.

I think Grand-Am had a good idea with the silhouette cars; however the restricting nature of the rules limited the potential IMHO. The RX-8s, GXP.Rs, and other tube cars are a tad dull compared to some of the daily driver mutations seen in the past-or currently in Super GT.

Having Mustangs, Camaros, Hondas, whatever competing at GT2 speeds could make for some radical cars, injecting more cool factor into the sport, not to mention more variety.

Hopefully Grand-Am overhauls its rules and teams like Turner will be racing in GTs that look more like this: http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/cro...3-1_460x0w.jpg

[Matt]

The B6 is a hideous car.

[seanyb505]

If I may throw this in the wheel:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/10/r...le-mans-style/

[bludd billz]

Originally Posted by Matt

The B6 is a hideous car.

To each his own.

The point I was tryng to make with that comparison was that I feel these cars need to look more racy than what Grand-Am currently has, which are very production-looking cars with a wing and splitter attached.

I would like to see Turner, for example, running a car with fender flares, a large wing, a modified front airdam, diffuser, whatever is needed to make the GT cars run fast and look the part too! What they have now is a little pedestrian to me: http://audivwcrewpr.com/blog/wp-cont...gt-racecar.jpg

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Matt

The B6 is a hideous car.

I love the B6 and its sounds fantastic, love that 90 degree V8 rumble -



Its a very aggressive looking car, your in the minority. Even Johnny Herbert, Ben Edwards and few others like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkyuNTUB2pc

[Matt]

Let me rephrase that.

BMW's themselves(aside from the current 3-series) are horrible looking things, and that front bumper they put on the B6 GT3 car is just plain nasty.

EDIT Also, someone needs to explain to me why LED's go all weird when put on video.

[kingkai]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

If I may throw this in the wheel:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/10/r...le-mans-style/

Could still be possible when the SuperGT and DTM fuse together in 2012?... A world series with this SuperGT looking Camaro

But indeed the Camaro would be a great looking GT car.

GT racing should be performance cars coupes, that is how I like them. And please not stepping down and let in more everyday car like sirocco etc. Not my style.. Sorry to the fans. Nothing beats a CCGT, DBR9, C6-R with looks (Even the Citroen GT1 prototype looks wild, built for the game developers of GT5), or even GT2's 997, V8 Vantage, M3, C6-R-GT2.

My first thoughts on the B6 in the beginning where like
But when I first arrived at 4:30am at Spa to watch the latter part of the 24h, I liked the V8 sound of the B6 and when the light came in I thought it wasn't that bad anymore (better than those Audi's.. Sorry fanboys but I began to dislike audi a few years ago, it even reflects on the arrogant types and dangerous drivers who drive the street audi's around me)

Idea's for more GT racers:
Maserati Gran Turismo (instead of the prototype looking and not according to the rules MC12), Ferrari 599, Better effort of a Gallardo in GT2, Better funded Spyker program (Joining FiaGT2), A mercedes in some sort of version (always liked the idea of a SLR-GT1..)