Vettel has it easy: Hamilton

[Paradise City]

It's sounds like an offhanded comment made in a moment of frustration in response to a pointed remark from Vettel. The kind of affronted comment we'd make and then we'd face palm afterwords.

Some people here are acting like he was caught poisoning children's milk or something.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Andrew2001

Really Lewis? You, the guy who was in the McLaren camp as a teenager? Every young boys dream. Talk about spoilt. as a macca fan I just couldn't warm to the guy. No respect or appreciation for what has happened to get him where he is.
I am sick of these young brats in modern F1..

Methinks you really need to calm down a bit. Sorry you didn't have the same chances as Hamilton (or any of the others who have been through the same process) but there are 24 F1 drivers, and 7,125,262,500 people in the world, so not everyone can have go. If you are sick of all the brats then the answer is simple. Don't watch F1.

And had you listened to anything LH had said in the last two or three years, you would know he certainly isn't a brat - every single race I can remember he has thanked his team for the efforts put in, that is appreciation AND respect. Not brat behaviour.

[wnut]

Maybe some other drivers should read this in order to find out why Vettel is so "lucky".

http://www.pitpass.com/49331-Vettel-...en-as-teammate

[henners88]

Originally Posted by wnut

Maybe some other drivers should read this in order to find out why Vettel is so "lucky".

http://www.pitpass.com/49331-Vettel-...en-as-teammate

I know its Pit Pass but if the article is anything to go by, I would be put off joining Red Bull if I were Kimi. Sounds like an environment suited to Vettel's needs first and foremost. We know from history that the team don't handle two winning drivers all that well and you get the impression it would be less of a headache only having one with the other for support. Kimi would be an interesting addition though and one I would enjoy to watch. I'm a fan of Kimi and think his no rubbish attitude would be most amusing in situations where Red Bull are trying to deal with a frustrated team mate and he's just interested in getting his own job done.

Regardless of what Horner says I think Mark has already made the decision to leave at the end of the season. His persona has changed since Malaysia and I get the impression that was the final straw. He's achived a hell of a lot at Red Bull and nobody thinks he's on the same talent scale as Vettel, but he's still done extremely well IMHO. We'll have to wait and see.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by henners88

I know its Pit Pass but if the article is anything to go by, I would be put off joining Red Bull if I were Kimi. Sounds like an environment suited to Vettel's needs first and foremost. We know from history that the team don't handle two winning drivers all that well and you get the impression it would be less of a headache only having one with the other for support. Kimi would be an interesting addition though and one I would enjoy to watch. I'm a fan of Kimi and think his no rubbish attitude would be most amusing in situations where Red Bull are trying to deal with a frustrated team mate and he's just interested in getting his own job done.

Regardless of what Horner says I think Mark has already made the decision to leave at the end of the season. His persona has changed since Malaysia and I get the impression that was the final straw. He's achived a hell of a lot at Red Bull and nobody thinks he's on the same talent scale as Vettel, but he's still done extremely well IMHO. We'll have to wait and see.

Very perceptive on all fronts - great post Henners88.

[jsTrecu]

Same good old quote today. He really is a broken record...

"He has it quite easy," Hamilton said.
"His car has been phenomenally quick for the last four years and every year they seem to pull it out again.
"There's not one weekend where they seem to struggle. It's phenomenal."

[Mr V]

To be fair to Lewis, he did say in an interview with Sky F1 today that he thinks that Seb is a phenominal didver and the more success he has the more he respects him.

One thing I do find funny is when Lewis goes on about Seb only winning because he has the best car, well, when Lewis had the best car, in 2007 (along with Alonso), they threw it away, and only just managed to take the title with the best car in 2008.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by Mr V

One thing I do find funny is when Lewis goes on about Seb only winning because he has the best car, well, when Lewis had the best car, in 2007 (along with Alonso), they threw it away, and only just managed to take the title with the best car in 2008.

There are degrees to which how much better the best car, whatever it is in whichever season, is? Mclarens of 2007/08 may've been the best car (I'm not sure), but it wasn't clear cut dominate like the Mansell Williams, Schu Ferrari and Vettel RBs are. I remember those seasons where it depended on the circuit which was the better car to have. It was marginal.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

There are degrees to which how much better the best car, whatever it is in whichever season, is? Mclarens of 2007/08 may've been the best car (I'm not sure), but it wasn't clear cut dominate like the Mansell Williams, Schu Ferrari and Vettel RBs are. I remember those seasons where it depended on the circuit which was the better car to have. It was marginal.

Absolutely, it was much closer back then.

Vettel doesn't have it easy as such, just he's got the perfect team for him, and that team has a great driver to work with.

So many people say Vettel clearly has the best car, and that he can't be called a true legend yet, but when Hamilton makes comments with might belittle his achievements things appear to change in some fans' eyes. Can't have it both ways.

Not sure what it is, but there's a distinct atmosphere of unpopularity which follows Hamilton and that leads to many people, fans and media included, jumping heavily on just a few words, often made when a microphone is randomly shoved in his face.

[Catingaround]

It is a recurring statement from Lewis though. He even said it on his second Top Gear episode. Some like to point out his stellar lap on TG but fail to mention him putting the car off the track too.

Vettel does make it look easy though, very few mistakes causing him to retire, last time being his tangle with Webber in 2010?

[wnut]

Funny how Vettel is currently 64 points ahead of his team mate and in 1st place rather than 5th in the WDC.

Oh and he is a 3 time WDC while Webber has never managed to finish immediately behind him in the WDC, and Webber is a pretty good driver! Must be luck!

[henners88]

Originally Posted by Mr V

One thing I do find funny is when Lewis goes on about Seb only winning because he has the best car, well, when Lewis had the best car, in 2007 (along with Alonso), they threw it away, and only just managed to take the title with the best car in 2008.

Having mulled over this many times in the past I'm of the opinion the Ferrari was the better car throughout 2008. It secured more pole positions and fastest laps throughout the year and Massa only just lost out on the championship. There were mistakes from both teams but the incident that stands out for me that year was Spa where a very deserved win for hamilton was taken away in a very inconsistent decision that attracted a lot of frustration from fans and those up and down the pit lane. It was a strange year but feel it showed the talent of both Hamilton and Vettel and what was to come.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by henners88

Having mulled over this many times in the past I'm of the opinion the Ferrari was the better car throughout 2008. It secured more pole positions and fastest laps throughout the year and Massa only just lost out on the championship. There were mistakes from both teams but the incident that stands out for me that year was Spa where a very deserved win for hamilton was taken away in a very inconsistent decision that attracted a lot of frustration from fans and those up and down the pit lane. It was a strange year but feel it showed the talent of both Hamilton and Vettel and what was to come.

What about Ferrari walking down the pit lane with Massa's fuel hose?
What about Massa's Ferrari lunching itself at San Marino while miles in the lead?
What about a certain individual backing off in Brazil?

[henners88]

Originally Posted by wnut

What about Ferrari walking down the pit lane with Massa's fuel hose?

As I said in my post, both teams made errors and the fuel hose one was unfortunate. That was a race where Massa wasn't necessarily in the fight for the lead though. Ferrari had messed up the previous day and this didn't help matters.

Originally Posted by wnut

What about Massa's Ferrari lunching itself at San Marino while miles in the lead?

San Marino was removed from the calendar two years prior to 2008.

Originally Posted by wnut

What about a certain individual backing off in Brazil?

I assume you mean Glock struggling up the hill in the last sector on slicks in wet conditions? That like any other race situation was something to take advantage of. Neither Ferrari nor McLaren had any control over that situation. It was lucky for Hamilton but both drivers experienced luck that year as well as bad luck. Massa got a fine for an unsafe release in a previous race, whereas Sutil got a drive through penalty for the same offence earlier in the season. It was a year of inconsistencies concerning rules which was my point entirely.

I'm answering these questions but must admit I don't see the point you are trying to make. I suggested I thought the Ferrari was the better car in terms of performance that year, I stand by that. Stewards were inconsistent and messed about with results far too much IMO. As I said, it was a strange year and one where either Hamilton or Massa deserved the title. I was pleased it was Lewis however.

[wnut]

You are right henners88 it was Hungary - with a 20 second lead that Massa's Ferrari stopped in with 3 laps to go.

He also retired in the first 2 races.

You are probably right, the Ferrari was the fastest car, but they were not the fastest team!
Screw up after screw up!


Anyway, all history and Lewis got it!

[henners88]

Originally Posted by wnut

You are right henners88 it was Hungary - with a 20 second lead that Massa's Ferrari stopped in with 3 laps to go.

He also retired in the first 2 races.

You are probably right, the Ferrari was the fastest car, but they were not the fastest team!
Screw up after screw up!


Anyway, all history and Lewis got it!

Indeed. Massa didn't help his cause in the first two races either. In Oz he collided with the barrier after attacking Heikki and span off. Later in the race he cut up Coulthard and had yet another crash before engine failure got him. He spun out of the following race due to a driver error too. You could say Massa did an impressive job for the remainder of the year to lose the championship by a single point. When you tally up the performance combined with the errors and bad judgements, it was a close year for both. The Ferrari had the better package but brain fades cost them dearly. Hungary was tough as it was a clear win for Massa robbed away from him. Heikki inherited the lead and it stands as his only F1 victory to date.

[jsTrecu]

Originally Posted by Catingaround

It is a recurring statement from Lewis though. He even said it on his second Top Gear episode. Some like to point out his stellar lap on TG but fail to mention him putting the car off the track too.

Vettel does make it look easy though, very few mistakes causing him to retire, last time being his tangle with Webber in 2010?

I think in Monaco Vettel equaled Heidfled's record of 56 GPs without a DNF caused by a driver error (it is on Autosport Magazine "GP in numbers" section of that week) so that makes it 59 now. Nobody has ever managed to have such a streak and it's pretty amazing if you ask me. We are talking of about three full 20 GP seasons and a driver who likes to chase fast laps and isn't shy when he is trying to overtake someone (total opposite of Heidfeld).

Then again you could say that the better the car, the easier to drive on the limit. But that doesn't take away any merit on the achievement in my opinion.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by jsTrecu

I think in Monaco Vettel equaled Heidfled's record of 56 GPs without a DNF caused by a driver error (it is on Autosport Magazine "GP in numbers" section of that week) so that makes it 59 now. Nobody has ever managed to have such a streak and it's pretty amazing if you ask me. We are talking of about three full 20 GP seasons and a driver who likes to chase fast laps and isn't shy when he is trying to overtake someone (total opposite of Heidfeld).

Then again you could say that the better the car, the easier to drive on the limit. But that doesn't take away any merit on the achievement in my opinion.

Agree with this. Part of Vettel's genius is to make sure that the Red Bull is the best car, by parking it one pole and banging out faster lap times than the rest...sounds simple because it is. He'll be remembered for that even if he never has someone of Raikkonen's quality as his team mate, or drives an inferior car.

Perhaps Hamilton should have said Vettel has it easier, I don't think anyone could disagree with that.

Do we really have to go over every single Championship since 2007 to analyse what Hamilton says?

[MarkG]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Perhaps Hamilton should have said Vettel has it easier, I don't think anyone could disagree with that.

Perfect statement.

Trouble with this forum, and others I guess, is that posters/fanboys will argue black is white in defense of "his" driver. I don't see Vettel as a great I will admit, but I do concede he gets the best out of the Red Bull. Webber is just a smidgen behind him in speed but is cursed with the Lion's share of bad luck.

I don't consider myself part of the Lewis fan-club, but I do prefer him to Vettel, and I can understand Lewis's frustration about the Red Bulls over the past 4 years or so, that's natural. We all know, whatever driver we prefer, F1 is more about the car, has been for a long time.
Lewis will understand better than forum posters when viewing incar of Vettel in a Red Bull, how the cars compare. To that car advantage, add the fact that Vettel is undoubtedly the favoured one in the team, Red Bull are the best team on strategy calls, they are the best team at pit-stops, and they have a very fast 2nd driver taking points from contenders. That's a MIGHTY challenge to a F1 driver not in a Red Bull.

I have no problem with people being in love with Vettel and thinking he's the greatest, that's their view and they're entitled to it, but do us all a favour, please acknowledge that he has had a pretty good car these past years.

[jsTrecu]

Nobody said Vettel is the greatest. Right now you can't even boldly say that he is the better driver in todays field.
But people shouldn't put him behind Alonso or Lewis just because he's had a good car either. All that "he only wins because of the car" talk is plain wrong. The top drivers always find their way into the top teams, there is a reason for that, they are so good that teams are willing to rely on them to put those cars on the higher steps of the podium.

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Agree with this. Part of Vettel's genius is to make sure that the Red Bull is the best car, by parking it one pole and banging out faster lap times than the rest...sounds simple because it is. He'll be remembered for that even if he never has someone of Raikkonen's quality as his team mate, or drives an inferior car.

Perhaps Hamilton should have said Vettel has it easier, I don't think anyone could disagree with that.

Do we really have to go over every single Championship since 2007 to analyse what Hamilton says?

That's the difference between them maybe ?
Hamilton is obviously one of the most talented drivers the F1 has ever seen, no doubt about that. And he could prove to be faster than Vettel on the same car, nobody should dismiss that possibility.
But while Vettel has matured very fast and has not only the speed, but also an incredible consistency, Hamilton OTOH seems to go through periods where he fails to "be Hamilton". At times it's as if he was lacking something (not only the car) to show us his true self/potential.

Am I alone thinking this ? I have the impression that while being incredibly fast, he may lack the psychological strenght to maintain that level for long periods of time unlike Alonso, Kimi and now Vettel have shown us.

Don't know if Vettel's dominance this years, or being left out of the Alonso/Vettel fights for the championship has affected his confidence after he was being considered "the next big thing" after 2007.
But the fact that he always needs to remind the media/fans that there is some excuse to explain he is not up there, and the recent trim of "Vettel has it easy" comments he repeats again and again everytime he is beaten, for me are a sign of an insecure driver worried about what people think of him. Even recently he admitted being concerned by his "legacy" and that he thought he was wasting the best years of his carreer, and he is just 28 yo.
I know Alonso plays that game to try to get inside Vettel's head, but I'm not sure Lewis do it for the same reasons.

IMO chances of him being the fastest driver are high, but when speaking of the "complete package", personally I rate Vettel above him.
But as always, I may be completely wrong

[Gingers4Justice]

You may be right there, jsTrecu, and you're certainly not alone in thinking that. Alonso and Vettel have something else when it comes to mental strength, while Hamilton's form can be completely dictated by what's going on inside the helmet.

Hamilton has the best natural ability, but he doesn't seem very good at managing it. Particularly in his earlier career, some of his best performances came when he had a problem, went to the back of the field, and had to crawl his way back. Whilst these are often incredible performances, it often takes something to rile him to get him to "be Hamilton" as you put it.

Vettel in particular just seems to be Vettel all the time. Hooked up, dialled in, doing his stuff, despite a fair few shifts in the regulations to try and stop him and plenty of mind games from the likes of Alonso.

[garcon]

I find this season quite fascinating. The cars do seem closer together, so it's no surprise to me that the best three drivers on the grid (by far IMO) are in the top three positions of the WDC standings.

Granted, if Mercedes could sort their race pace issues, both Lewis and Niko would be closer.

[Marbot]

If Vettel has it easy, or easier, it's because he makes it that way. The guy is a race engineers dream and knows a great deal about how and why the updates on his car work and what he needs to change, regarding his driving style, to get them to work, and anyone taking the place of Webber next season certainly needs to be mindful of that.

Originally Posted by garcon

Granted, if Mercedes could sort their race pace issues, both Lewis and Niko would be closer.

The Mercedes has had the same issues since it was called a Mercedes. Schumacher couldn't solve the issues because they are a fundamental problem with the car, so Merc shouldn't expect any help from its current drivers. Merc need to get on top of this problem for this season, otherwise its 2014 car will suffer for the same reasons, and to make matters worse the 2014 engines will have much more tyre killing torque than the current engines have, which is exactly what Merc do not need.

[Catingaround]

On mental strength, I wonder if Alonso plays these head games because he believes they will work. It is possible that Alonso is more susceptible to pressure; end of last year, when it counted most, Alonso was being outperformed by Massa or 2010 Abu Dhabi, lots of pressure followed by mistakes and trouble passing, etc. I tend to believe that Alonso down plays the strength of the Ferrari as a means of removing the pressures of expectation.

I don't believe that Lewis has this problem with pressure, imo Lewis is probably dumbfounded by Vettels success and is so supremely confident in his own ability that it must be the RBR car. Lewis is undoubtedly a great talent and I'm sure he has be told so for most of his life.

Vettel makes it look easy for sure but would we see all this talk of the RBR superiority if we were only judging by Webbers performance in it? Not intended as a knock on Mark, I believe Webber is a great driver, his success at Monaco speaks for itself.

anyway Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso are mega pilots. It's an awesome era in F1 imo, the field is stacked with talent. Who edges who is hard to say, we all have our favorite picks. I hope Red Bull takes on Kimi, it would be great to see how Vettel and Kimi measure against each other.