Musing (aka spitballing) Toto Max and Christian

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

I always trust the opinion of anybody who says "i havent seen it, but its utter rubbish"
And now not even been tempted to watch a trailer..
How do you know if its good or bad?

Its just 10 episodes built around 10 interesting stories that unfolded last year..
Its not pretending "this is 2021 F1 detailed technical and racing report for f1 tragics"
Its the "human side" and personalities of the people involved.

Some people just like watching cars go round, some love the back stories insight into the people.

Doesnt take a rocket scientist to know how last season went, and how that would be portrayed

I mean, even Max didnt give it the benefit of the doubt after the first season....

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

I always trust the opinion of anybody who says "i havent seen it, but its utter rubbish"
And now not even been tempted to watch a trailer..
How do you know if its good or bad?

Exactly.
Could be brilliant.

Its just 10 episodes built around 10 interesting stories that unfolded last year..
Its not pretending "this is 2021 F1 detailed technical and racing report for f1 tragics"
Its the "human side" and personalities of the people involved.

Some people just like watching cars go round, some love the back stories insight into the people.

And some like those personalities woven into a soap opera, because that battle and need to have those they like and those they hate in sport is what they want. And that is the era of F1 we are in. So great stuff.

I’m not pretending it rubbish. As it’s genre I am sure it is brilliantly done. But it is seeping into the rest of the sport and that is turning me off. This is what I think, not a comment on it overall and what it brings to others. It is clear that this is what people want from the sport.

[crmalcolm]

Out of curiosity - for those who have seen D2S, Senna, Rush and Le Mans '66 - how does D2S differ in terms of focusing on the personalities and drama of the action as opposed to those.

I appreciate that there is a difference between a production using original footage, compared to a screenplay with acted roles. But from the face of it - all four of those examples seem to be produced with the intent of telling the personal stories, as opposed to the sporting contest....

[Adam43]

A significant difference is the time between the events and the production. The telling and dramatization of the story is not happening while it is still going on.

So for D2S it has the benefit of being relevant immediately; it can add to the main event. On the other hand it also needs to tell a story, whether there is one or not. But is that any different to the newspaper, or even Autosport, so and so says such and such. I guess they are the most clicked on articles?

Those others were only told because the story of interesting anyway.

Maybe one day we can have a film about making of D2S?

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Adam43

A significant difference is the time between the events and the production. The telling and dramatization of the story is not happening while it is still going on.

So for D2S it has the benefit of being relevant immediately; it can add to the main event. On the other hand it also needs to tell a story, whether there is one or not. But is that any different to the newspaper, or even Autosport, so and so says such and such. I guess they are the most clicked on articles?

Those others were only told because the story of interesting anyway.

Maybe one day we can have a film about making of D2S?

This

I suppose the other difference is that with time, a better and more balanced picture of events can unfold, rather than a polarised view.

If you take lauda v hunt at face value in the moment then youd think they would hate eachother....but as time goes on, more stories are told and the 2 protagonists have time to reflect you realise theres far more respect and less polarisation.

I guess same with Schumacher/ Hill, Senna/ Prost, Max/ Lewis

D2S needs to tell a story to keep viewers, it dramatises things rather than being completely factually based.

Im not saying i dont enjoy that, i think the first series was very good, but its gone down hill a bit since then...

..but then again im more of a documentry kinda guy, prefering programmes like Journey to le mans, truth in the 24 etc

[chillibowl]

i suppose what makes D2S different for me is that i dont actually believe it is trying to pay homage to something i genuinely like and care about.

for me it is a caricature of F1 with its worst bits exaggerated for effect. like when you are on holiday and you pay some street artists to draw your family's portrait.

sure i paid for it but i know better so i will toss it in a box as soon as i get home because that is not how any of us want to remember our family.

[Skam85]

I like D2S.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i suppose what makes D2S different for me is that i dont actually believe it is trying to pay homage to something i genuinely like and care about.

for me it is a caricature of F1 with its worst bits exaggerated for effect. like when you are on holiday and you pay some street artists to draw your family's portrait.

sure i paid for it but i know better so i will toss it in a box as soon as i get home because that is not how any of us want to remember our family.

A heavily edited and sensatiomalised form of reality TV rather than proper documentary!

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

Doesnt take a rocket scientist to know how last season went, and how that would be portrayed

But you wouldnt know, you didnt see it
Thy covered HAAS two young guys, they covered Danny R and Norris, they covered ferrari. They showed quite a bit of unseen footage of lewis in the pits a nd garage reacting to events.. THey covered Totos hard decision re 2nd seat, and showed him breaking news to George, and Toto having a heart to heart with bottas and his reactions.

They showed a lot of mazepins attitude right down to saying
"This is why everybody hates you"

They covered Ocons win

Its more then the lewis vs max show

But in the end its entertainment aimed at those interested or curios about f1

its not trying to be sporting coverage of the season, just "heres some interesting things that happened last year" with lots of interviews of people involved.

ITs mcdonalds burger not prime steak. Its to keep you going and ready for the real stuff to happen

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by chunterer

A heavily edited and sensatiomalised form of reality TV rather than proper documentary!

But its NOT a documentary, it never claimed to be, its entertainment based around things that happened in f1 last year,
If you want a "document of the season" you would need to buy an F1 year book or some other media aimed at us who are serious f1 fans and followers.

They could make a serious documentary on GP2021 and you know hundreds would watch it maybe thousands. But this is glossy mag entertainment.


I think i can sniff an attitude of
"Pah... Im too sophisticated and serious for that rubbish. Sniff... i KNOW my F1, Im too good for that.. that is papp for the uneducated unwashed hoi-polo. But I too knowledgeable. its beneath my dignity and level of f1"

When I was a 20 year old i was an serious inner city edgy music fan, spend my days and nights in small venues and independent music shops looking for rare unusual and "hard core" music. IF a band were on the radio or played big venues they were "pop crap for those who dont understand real music" and not to be taken seriously. One of my friend had a tshirt "I only listen to bands you've never heard of"
Then I got a bit older and realised that was elitist superior ******edge. And A lot of mainstream could be good, and the reason the obscure stuff wasnt heard more.... well... an acquired taste lets say.

Me? I will take and enjoy anything f1 related, The hard core and the fluff
Its all part of the circus, light and deep. I know this isnt detailed and simplifying but its entertainment. And if they dont make it again this year, i will find the xmas break more dreary and longer

liking D2S doesnt mean you arent serious about f1, liking f1 doesnt mean you hate D2S. Theyarent mutually exclusive.
In fact if you really love f1 you will watch anything f1 relates (especially if its well made with interviews and unseen footage)
I love both, more more more f1 tv please!

Sometimes i listen to Mozart, sometimes Madness
One Step beyond!

[Alan52]

I think if you are a big F1 fan you watch with different eyes to someone watching it as their latest dose of reality TV.
I tend to disregard the breathless Will Buxton commentary and the drama queen plot lines and pick up my own insights from the visuals and interviews.
Anyone who thinks it aims to be any sort of documentary of the season just doesn’t get it.

[bella]

agree about buxton being irritating, although oddly not so much about jennie gow because she's so scripted that you aren't like, hang on are you trying to have me believe this is an off the cuff comment and not the 85th time he's said the stakes couldn't be higher? i just see them as narrators and not serious commentators.

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Me? I will take and enjoy anything f1 related, The hard core and the fluff
Its all part of the circus, light and deep. I know this isnt detailed and simplifying but its entertainment. And if they dont make it again this year, i will find the xmas break more dreary and longer

my theory too. i'm reading trashy books, and i'm reading serious textbooks. one does not negate the other.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

But you wouldnt know, you didnt see it
Thy covered HAAS two young guys, they covered Danny R and Norris, they covered ferrari. They showed quite a bit of unseen footage of lewis in the pits a nd garage reacting to events.. THey covered Totos hard decision re 2nd seat, and showed him breaking news to George, and Toto having a heart to heart with bottas and his reactions.

They showed a lot of mazepins attitude right down to saying
"This is why everybody hates you"

They covered Ocons win

Its more then the lewis vs max show

But in the end its entertainment aimed at those interested or curios about f1

its not trying to be sporting coverage of the season, just "heres some interesting things that happened last year" with lots of interviews of people involved.

ITs mcdonalds burger not prime steak. Its to keep you going and ready for the real stuff to happen

OK, you've done it - you make me feel like watching Season 4 now!

I really had got to a point of not bothering with it any further (apart from anything else, I really get irked by Buxton & Gow - hard to express why rationally, just find both annoying) but you're making me feel like re-joining Netflix and checking it out - nicely sold ole fella, might be a bit of me for this weekend before the racing starts.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

But you wouldnt know, you didnt see it
Thy covered HAAS two young guys, they covered Danny R and Norris, they covered ferrari. They showed quite a bit of unseen footage of lewis in the pits a nd garage reacting to events.. THey covered Totos hard decision re 2nd seat, and showed him breaking news to George, and Toto having a heart to heart with bottas and his reactions.

They showed a lot of mazepins attitude right down to saying
"This is why everybody hates you"

They covered Ocons win

Its more then the lewis vs max show

But in the end its entertainment aimed at those interested or curios about f1

its not trying to be sporting coverage of the season, just "heres some interesting things that happened last year" with lots of interviews of people involved.

ITs mcdonalds burger not prime steak. Its to keep you going and ready for the real stuff to happen

Fair cop and I have had a rethink.... I have a long haul flight to Europe next week and will download the series to my laptop and give it another chance on the flight.
I liked some of the scenarios above, particularly its not all Lewis and Max.

As Tourer said, a good sales job with valid points I cant argue against.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

But its NOT a documentary, it never claimed to be,

Yes it does claim to be.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Yes it does claim to be.

I don’t think people meant in terms of literal promotion language.They meant in terms of the production style.If reality TV is a sub genre within documentary then you are right.

[S griffin]

It's certainly an interesting look behind the scenes, but it isn't something you should take too seriously. It does maybe twist things a bit to try and create extra drama

[Akrapovic]

Netflix description: Docuseries following the FIA Formula One World Championship across multiple seasons.

Netflix tags: Docuseries, Documentary
IMDB Tags: Documentary

I mean. Netflix says it's a documentary. They've uploaded all the IMDB stuff saying it's a documentary. The only place where it isn't listed as a documentary is Google Reviews, where it's listed as Docufiction, and there's currently a Wikipedia edit battle changing the genre between Documentary and Docufiction.

If the only defense of the complete nonsense that they make up in this series is "They never claimed it was a documentary" then that's a weak defense to start with, but also is factually incorrect (just like the show. So it fits).

[crmalcolm]

Going back to the source - the production company is Box to Box Films.

They say - 'Box to Box Films present a new Formula 1 documentary series on Netflix that began with the 2018 season.'

[wnut]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Going back to the source - the production company is Box to Box Films.

They say - 'Box to Box Films present a new Formula 1 documentary series on Netflix that began with the 2018 season.'

Same same accuracy as the description applied to the news I guess.

[tbtstt]

Some interesting comments in here, D2S definitely seems to polarize opinion!

I am not a die-hard F1 fan; huge lover of motorsport but, for various reasons (and as much as I am fascinated by the technical details), F1 is one of the last forms of motor racing I'll choose to watch. That said I have watched more complete F1 races in the last couple of years than I have in the previous decade and D2S has definitely influenced that.

Don't think there are many motorsport documentaries out there that aren't guilty of at least some over-dramatization. Despite my limited knowledge on the subject I definitely think D2S has some, er, "inflammatory", editing. The stories on the mid and lower tier teams are what I find most interesting, as a lot of that background information is rarely mentioned on the coverage. Found some of the Haas/Mazepin episode quite entertaining and was glad to see Jost Capito and Williams get some coverage.

Although they might be cut up, some of the one-to-one interviews are quite revealing, as those are unarguably the words directly coming out of the mouth of the subject (though of course the context of some comments can distort opinion). Surprised by the amount of anti-Mercedes sentiment in the paddock; expected it from some, but was surprised to hear those sort of comments from the upper echelons of other teams. Would expect more respect (even if it is begrudging) at that level, but I guess there must be a lot of frustration.

Really wasn't sure how I felt about Yuki Tsunoda after his episode; he seemed really likeable in the first half of the episode, but whining about early starts made him sound more like a spoilt child than a professional racing driver but, again, I appreciate select editing might be distorting opinion...

...speaking of whining, I had an opinion about the management and drivers of the two top teams before watching this season and what I saw just reinforced my opinion. Thought that the final episode was fairly objective, as it pretty much left you to draw your own conclusion.

In short I think it might be an exaggeration of reality in places but it certainly isn't a complete work of fiction and, watched with an open mind, it does add to the picture of modern F1.

[S griffin]

It’s certainly prompts debate. The problem is D2S seems a bit lazy. It sometimes doesn’t quite capture what F1 is about. But fair play to them for the effort and I can see why some like it. Although it doesn’t help that it seems a bit exclusive with it being on Netflix

I do agree they maybe exaggerate things a bit. It’s something you should take with a pinch of salt and maybe not take it as the most reliable source. I just think it could be done better

About the anti Merc sentiment, I find that a bit surprising, I guess that’s down to them thinking Merc have a bit too much superiority to others and have forgotten what it’s like to struggle. I guess not every team feels like that though and some of it might be jealousy

And I don’t think Yuki is a bad bloke, although he seems a bit unobtrusive compared to others in the paddock, so it’s hard to know

Anyway I’m looking forward more to where the real action is this year, on the track

[chillibowl]

indeed. it generates some interesting debate and for sure imt taking the show far more seriously then i should be taking it so i own that.

Originally Posted by bathurst77

And if they dont make it again this year, i will find the xmas break more dreary and longer

had it come out at xmas perhaps i would have received it differently.

but instead they chose to drop it on the same weekend as the first and only televised test session...which suggests, to me of course, that the intention for D2S was for it to exists as counter programming to the actual real life F1 event. thus my issues stem from this juxtaposition.

but of course, people are more then free to watch what they want. for me though, the first few episodes took more away then it added so im not going to watch anymore.

more so now that there is actual racing back on.

[chillibowl]

and just like that, i take every bad thing i have said about D2S back.

cant wait til this season drops and we get the happy Guenther episode!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CbSr0sytnUG/