Musing (aka spitballing) Toto Max and Christian

[bathurst77]

Enjoying the latest D2S on Netflix and watching how the relationship between Toto Christian and Max
and Christian's words on Danny R have changed over the last few years.
I had a few thoughts

Christian was very derisive of Danny A year or two back, this season he speaks very highly of him a few times. I guess Dan is forgiven for leaving.

By years end last year Toto and Christian were just totally unable to speak to each other.

So heres a few hypotheticals

2023 ends Lewis wins WDC 9 and decides he has had enough and wants to change the world, so walks away. Merc are still the team to beat, but max is still the major pain in their ass. Young George is doing well but maybe not quite ready to lead the best team in the game.

Would Toto ever employ Max?
Would Max go to merc if it meant he was then in THE BEST car. Bye Bye Christian

If he does go, would Christian Ring Danny R and ask him in for a chat?

(yes i know there are contracts, but contracts are written to be broken)

Scenario 2
Its 2032 Team Merc and Team redbull are no more
F1 is a totally un recognisable sport
Toto and Christian are both retired millionaires and havent been near a race car in years.
Will they be good friends having each other ovver for drinks and holidays? Or will they still spit on the ground every time that name gets mentioned?

In Australia in the 70s and 80s there were 2 racing camps
Ford lead by Allan Moffat and Holden (GM) lead by Peter Brock and Larry Perkins. Back then it was tense and playing for sheep stations no holds barred.

But years later Peter Allan and Larry were very close friends (Peter is now passed away - Allan was distraught) Allan is now suffering from age related health issues and Larry is central in his ongoing care and well being.
So old hatreds and grudges can be over written by shared history and experience and obsessions

Oh well this goe through my mind after a few drinks

[Alan52]

Given Ricciardo’s mostly abysmally mediocre 2021 and the fact he is 31 I doubt he is on anyone’s list for a seat in a potential Championship winning car.Not 1 reputable publication ranked him in their top 10 drivers list.The few good weekends just made the rest stand out even more.I think he will have to show a big improvement or McLaren will be looking at buying him out of the last year of his contract.Anyway Max has signed for the next 5 years at Red Bull.
As for your 10 year scenario I think it is more likely Ecclestone and Putin will be continuing their bromance sipping cocktails on the French Riviera than Christian and Toto will be best buddies.

[bathurst77]

My other (sorry sexist) take away from the series

I was a Ginger Spice fan since those days... She was my spice girl
but after watching D2S... geee Susie Wolff is lovely
do you think I could woo and tempt her away to live in a tiny rented house in the working class suburbs with a fat lazy alcoholic poet?

but maybe im just trying to undermine Merc F1.. if i steal Totos girl he will be so heart broken and distracted that the team will lose their way

SUSIE MARRY ME!!!!

[bathurst77]

To me the best moment in the series was Christian with his grandkids(?) and the dandelions "What did you wish for"
The little girl says a guinea pig, the little boy a helicopter
Christian says "what about max to win"
This 7 ish year old girl gives him a serious look "thats your wish"
From the mouths of babes

[bella]

i don’t think it was the editing but god, horner came across even worse than previous years.

yuki is brilliant. he’s totally normal. his “training first thing in the morning ruins the rest of the day” quote was the most human thing this side of VB asking if it was a shoes on or shoes off scenario at totos.

[cds_uk]

Originally Posted by bella

i don’t think it was the editing but god, horner came across even worse than previous years.

Completely agree, i've never really been a fan but he really does come across as quite an odious fellow.

[chillibowl]

will echo those comments as well. only watched the first 3 eps so far and don't know how much more i can take!

Horner's constant reminders to any employee or camera within earshot that Merc are not a 'sports team' in the true sense of the word, Toto only cares about finance and not sport, that Merc have it easy, they are all f* words etc etc...everyone has a different leadership style so it is what it is i suppose.

but seeing him endlessly drone on and on about it makes for a painful watch. what an unbelievably toxic culture to be surrounded by!

[Akrapovic]

Mercedes are in it to sell cars. Red Bull are in it to sell soft drinks. Mercedes inherited the Brawn/Honda setup. Red Bull inherited the Jaguar setup. Horners comments are ridiculous. But then again, what are Netflix baiting him into saying.

[bella]

nothing. he’s just that much of a wally.

source: tale as old as time

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by cds_uk

Completely agree, i've never really been a fan but he really does come across as quite an odious fellow.

Odious. Yes, a good description. IMO.

[bathurst77]

I just dont get it.
Im not a fan of Redbull or Merc. Nor of Max or Lewis, thoI respect that they are teh two best teams and drivers.

But I quite like Horner when he is on Sky F1 during the sessions, and I like him on D2S.
I find Toto tends to shout and carry on and refuse to answer questions, and then criticise Horner for doing the same.

They both do their job, use every trick angle and opportunity to beat the other team in any way they can and they dont pretend to be mates (any more)

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

I just dont get it.
Im not a fan of Redbull or Merc. Nor of Max or Lewis, thoI respect that they are teh two best teams and drivers.

But I quite like Horner when he is on Sky F1 during the sessions, and I like him on D2S.
I find Toto tends to shout and carry on and refuse to answer questions, and then criticise Horner for doing the same.

They both do their job, use every trick angle and opportunity to beat the other team in any way they can and they dont pretend to be mates (any more)

Netflix really do ham it up for the show, but that's fine and it makes it entertaining.

I did enjoy Toto saying how RB/Horner throw their toys out of the pram, haven't personally seen anybody at RB on camera destroying any poor Bose headphones though.

[Anyopenroad]

I think there's a slyness to Horner that I don't like and that I don't think Wolff has. I like Wolff smashing things and shouting, it's honest and uncalculated. I don't think Horner ever does anything uncalculated.

I'd work for Wolff in a heartbeat. He'd be exceptionally demanding but would also be supportive and honest. If you weren't good enough he'd fire you and explain why. If he rated you, he'd back you completely. I wouldn't trust Horner to do any of that.

As I once heard someone say of a tough boss, "at least he'd stab you in the front". Horner would stab you in the back.

IMHO. Based entirely on seeing them on TV and reading stuff. I've never met either of them ofc.

[Born Racer]

Yuki is inadvertently hilarious. I've said something like this before, but he looks like some bloke who's just been drafted in by mistake. There's no one like Kimi, and Yuki is Yuki, but he's like the new him in just being himself.

The self-effacing nature is a breath of fresh air.

[chunterer]

The extra media attention at the circuits last year and from the silly soap opera on netflix seemingly went to both those team principals heads!

Worryingly it looks like Horner thinks he's some kind of tv or movie star in the making!

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Yuki is inadvertently hilarious. I've said something like this before, but he looks like some bloke who's just been drafted in by mistake. There's no one like Kimi, and Yuki is Yuki, but he's like the new him in just being himself.

The self-effacing nature is a breath of fresh air.

I love how he genuinely believed what they said "Checo" means in Mexican

[bathurst77]

Yuki was real and funny

But not wanting to train or train as little as possible, and not wanting to learn, they are signs of talented enthusiastic amateur, but not an ambitious determined I will be the best no matter what it takes f1 professional.

At that level team bosses want your every waking hour to be about making yourself better, smarter stronger. Not doing what you have to and having fun and driving hard on the weekend.

I like him, but Im not sure I would pay big money to have his bum in my contender. Maybe in lower classes or Lemans or something

[wnut]

All I can say, is well done Max for not participating in this crud.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by wnut

All I can say, is well done Max for not participating in this crud.

Totally agree.... I watched episode 1&2 last year and got no further.

Nothing will make me watch this years series after what I saw last year. I have access to Netflix but not even been tempted to watch a trailer. That is a side of F1 I avoid. Each to their own.

I must be strange .... I watch F1 for the racing not the hissyfits. And they can call themselves whatever they like. I got used to Cassius Clay being Muhammed Ali without any personal psychological damage being incurred.

A couple of forum memberships is the nearest I get to any social media activity, and when it gets too feral at the tenths F1 forum in here I run away and hide in the normality of the Historic section for a few days.

But I am looking forward to the season.

[VIVA GT]

I found the first season of D2S fascinating and avidly watched the next 2 seasons almost as soon as they were available. I know that that was only released on Friday, but I've only watched the first two episodes so far, and that was only one at a time. It doesn't seem to have the draw to me now...

[bella]

the funniest part of all this is how seriously people take it.

it’s really not meant to be a documentary. it’s using last season to tell a story. just like other programmes like “cheer” and other reality tv does.

if someone don’t want to watch then don’t, but the idea that people are idiots for doing so is exactly the kind of them vs us crap that powers all the conflict in the sport fandom.

if it’s not someone acting like they’re superior because they liked the cars when they sounded differently and somebody else was winning races it’s toxic gatekeeping.

[Born Racer]

I've got as far as Horner and Halliwell on horses in Episode 1 and it reminded me of the pinnacle of ITV F1's human interest pieces. I may watch more for light enterainment, but as my wife hasn't expressed much of an interest in Drive to Survive this year, I also may not bother. She's more interested in the real thing.

[bella]

god you’re right, that’s exactly what it’s like!

have to admit, i scrubbed through most of the geri appearances. as a woman, she makes me feel ashamed of my gender.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I've got as far as Horner and Halliwell on horses in Episode 1 and it reminded me of the pinnacle of ITV F1's human interest pieces. I may watch more for light enterainment, but as my wife hasn't expressed much of an interest in Drive to Survive this year, I also may not bother. She's more interested in the real thing.

Tbh I haven’t even got that far, I know how dramatised The last season of D2S was…..with all the off track stuff in 2021 I can just imagine how “‘Hollywood’ this season would get.

Luckily my off season has revolved around watching season reviews of F1 and Sportscar racing from 1960-1990…..far more cleansing for the soul than the latest Netflix drama

[bathurst77]

I always trust the opinion of anybody who says "i havent seen it, but its utter rubbish"
And now not even been tempted to watch a trailer..
How do you know if its good or bad?

Its just 10 episodes built around 10 interesting stories that unfolded last year..
Its not pretending "this is 2021 F1 detailed technical and racing report for f1 tragics"
Its the "human side" and personalities of the people involved.

Some people just like watching cars go round, some love the back stories insight into the people.