Bathurst International Motor Festival. Launched!!!

[johnh875]

I can see the point - I suppose what I am thinking is it is the top of the mountain that makes Bathurst what it is, if you are not goint to use it (fair enough as you say) then why hold it at Bathurst? I've only seen pictures of Goodwood and there doesn't seem to be a similar track in Australia, Sandown might be the closest I suppose, or somewhere like Oran Park/Winton/Wakefield where you can see most of the track. Re the not seeing much, I would treat it like the Arthurs Seat or Mt Tarrengower where you can work your way around a few different vantage points.

[storyline]

Originally Posted by johnh875

Re the not seeing much, I would treat it like the Arthurs Seat or Mt Tarrengower where you can work your way around a few different vantage points.

But - if the previous post about the top of the trackbeing completely closd off to the public - doesn't this defeat the purpose of using Mt Panoama for this event?

[D.R.T.]

If the BRC accepted MPAC's proposal of running the 24 Hour race as part of the Bathurst International Motor Festival, it would have solved this concern of lack of actual racing. Maybe for next year.

[storyline]

The 24 hour as a viable race at Bathurst is finished.

[D.R.T.]

Finished is a very definate word, Storyline.

While there are groups/promoters such as MPAC or others, there is always the possibly of such as races return.

There is much room for improvement from the previous 2 installments, which would go a long way to making such an event more viable. Such as the decision to pay for 9 hours of commercial TV in 2003.

Remember IMG were a naming rights sponsor away from taking control of the race in 04, had WPS jumped on a 2nd Bathurst event then, things could have taken a good turn.

Just my feelings, though.

[storyline]

For the 24 Hour to run again it needs major major backing as well as support from categories capable of running a 24 hour event.

The problem is, in this country, that racing is not geared towards events of this distance therefore we don't have the necessary infrastructure which Europe has (interms of hardware and officials) and we certainly don;t have lead in events for cars and teams to be able to run events of this distance. At best (and correct me if I am wrong here) but about the longest race any cars capable if running a 24 hour event have in which they can test, practice etc is around 1 hour (and I don;t think they even have races of that duration any more).

But - and this is probably the most important ingredient - the Australian motor racing public simply has not gelled with 24 Hour endurence events - they don (read haven't in the past) supported it and, in all likelihood, won't in future - one of the key reasons for this apitahy is, unfortunate but has to be said, simply because it is run at Bathurst which when push comes to shove, is one of the most expensive spectator circuits in the country to attend.

[storyline]

Interesting press release that has come out this afternoon from ADRAD Racing (Brysce Washington) in SA. Amongst all the normal hype of a release, was this little gem:

Washington added that whilst winning the WPS Australian Carrera Cup Championship was a priority for this season, he didn’t rule out a return to the Australian GT Championship to run with Number 1 on the car.

“For sure, we’re looking at running at least a couple of rounds this season alongside our Carrera Cup racing,” he said.

“We definitely want to be at Bathurst for the championship round at Easter (held in conjunction with the recently announced International Motor Festival). We were quick there in Carrera Cup last year and it would be great to go back to the Mountain.

“It will be nice to run with number 1 against what is looking like an even stronger GT field this year.”

So one of the 'events' over Easter is for the GT Championship or at least the cars running in that series.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by storyline

The problem is, in this country, that racing is not geared towards events of this distance therefore we don't have the necessary infrastructure which Europe has (interms of hardware and officials) and we certainly don;t have lead in events for cars and teams to be able to run events of this distance. At best (and correct me if I am wrong here) but about the longest race any cars capable if running a 24 hour event have in which they can test, practice etc is around 1 hour (and I don;t think they even have races of that duration any more).

I do agree with that statement, however I believe the current GT championship is aiming at longer races at events for this season and in the future. There was the 1 Hour event at the A1 event in 2005, talk of the the Sportscar festival at Sandown and in the back of my mind I keep thinking about a 3 hour race at Eastern Creek that was in the works last year, obvioulsy didnt happen but that it is in peoples minds I feel is a good sign.

Originally Posted by storyline

But - and this is probably the most important ingredient - the Australian motor racing public simply has not gelled with 24 Hour endurence events - they don (read haven't in the past) supported it and, in all likelihood, won't in future

I dont think they really got the chance. 2 races at Bathurst dominated by Holden rocketships, pulled a solid crowd and interest from spectators aswell as racers. Interest and numbers were up from 2002 to 2003 and I'm sure would have been up for 2004.

2 years wasn't a long enough time for the Australian public to gel with a 24 Hour race at Bathurst.

[storyline]

But do you think even a 3 hour race is sufficient lead in to a 24 hour enduro? Personally I don't.

Keep in mind that Procar pulled the plug on the 24 hour before Ross pulled the plug on Procar itself - which, in my ind at least, says a lot for the financial side of the event.

Don;t get me wrong - I would love to see a 24 hour enduro be successful in this country - but the simple fact is that Australian racing fans are NOT avid fans of sports cars and that Mt Panorama, whilst everyone would like to see it held there, is simply too expensive a track to run this type of event at unless you have full financial backing.

Dare I say the track is over-rated?

[cavvy]

Is there not a similar style event at Calder at Easter ?

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by storyline

But do you think even a 3 hour race is sufficient lead in to a 24 hour enduro? Personally I don't.

Not a great lead in race, however in a 3 hour race you have experience in driver changes, race stops/refuelling etc.

2002 all the teams only had the Sandown 500 as a lead in but I thought the reliability and quality/professionalism on show was quite impressive.

Originally Posted by storyline

Keep in mind that Procar pulled the plug on the 24 hour before Ross pulled the plug on Procar itself - which, in my ind at least, says a lot for the financial side of the event.

Really ? I was lead to believe that it was simultaneous. Even after Procar was passed onto Boylan and the interim committee, Palmer continued working with the BRC to keep the race going.

[Belly13]

Originally Posted by storyline

But do you think even a 3 hour race is sufficient lead in to a 24 hour enduro? Personally I don't.

Personally, I think that the point which you make here is wrong. The Nation's Cup was the basis for the Bathurst 24 Hour in '02 and '03, and at each round they ran 3x20 min races - doesn't sound like a 24-Hour shakedown to me.
I also believe that there are categories which are definately capable of running a 24-hour event; GT Performance, GT Production and the GT Chammpionship (which seems to have strengthened since last year), Future Tourers, etc.
However, I do agree with you in stating that the 24-hour is probably not likely to return.
If the BIMF does succeed this year, and in the short-term, perhaps a 6 or 12 hour race would benefit the event, and even up the show 'n shine and racing aspect of the event.

Originally Posted by storyline

Dare I say the track is over-rated?

DISAGREE. I must say however, that it is so sacred due to the fact that it isn't used much at all. I would love to see more racing up there, yes, but in my opinion, there is a chance that it could devalue the circuit if drivers are up here 3/4 times a year.

[silver 2]

Storytime likes to take a negative view about everything and this is a trimmer . The point conveniently overlooked is that from an entry point of view the cancelled 24 Hour was going to be oversubscribed with the depth and quality being a significant upgrading from the previous year. Many better amd more serious efforts were in the planning and the cancellation was a significant kick in the guts for a lot of people .
If you do not run long races how do you get experience for teams,drivers and let everyone get used to the idea.All that takes time.The 1 Hour races have been a small step in that direction.There are several proposals floating for longer races at the moment.
Conceptually it is possible to fill the grid- not much doubt that would happen-- the idea implied that it has to be a a level of participant that ST approoves of to be deemed a success is curious. 24 hour races around the world are gaining in popularity and support so there is no reason that would not be the case here. An event at Bathurst is better than none-- and it may represent a step in the right direction.

[racer69]

2004 Bathurst 24 Hour over-subscribed???

Were any entry forms ever handed out. The international entry was never going to be high with the continued prescence of the 7-litre Monaro, the likes of Martin Short had indicated he wouldn't return if the rules stayed the same. There were indications of interest from BMW (who would have run them, from memory an ETCC race clashed in 2004, removing Schnitzer from the equation) and the Alzen's with their Bi-Turbo Porsche. The race needed the international entry to stand-up, it couldn't support itself on a Australian-only entry.

With reference to GT cars, i'm personally more interested in this 1000km race at a Sandown Sportscar Festival that was alluded to (anything but confirmed) in another post somewhere. In the current climate it's the best we can hope for, rather than longing for a 24-hour return. It's been gone 2 years, it's not coming back anytime soon.

[mixxer]

I'm led to believe there will be a few of the V8 teams up there with their ride day cars giving punters a chance for a lap around the mount.

[6.213km]

It might be hard for those that have already decided we will never see another 24hour at Bathurst.... but answer this question;

If a 24hr Bathurst for GT cars came our way again; would you turn up to watch it ?

Because in the end; if a consortium such as MPAC is successful; we'd sure as hell better stop bagging the event out saying its not viable, by voting with our feet.

The very early "Great Races" at Phillip Island were very much doomed in their early days by a lack of "interest". Look what we have today with the 1000kms.

Races at Bathurst cost a lot of money, just ask the ARDC, there were times when the 1000km was on shakey ground... it wont be easy for a B24hr to be a commercial success, but lets stop putting all these negative thoughts out there. 24 Hour racing around the world is gaining more and more interest.. keep the dream alive.

[storyline]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Not a great lead in race, however in a 3 hour race you have experience in driver changes, race stops/refuelling etc.

2002 all the teams only had the Sandown 500 as a lead in but I thought the reliability and quality/professionalism on show was quite impressive.

Don;t misunderstand what I am saying - a 3 hour race would be great BUT it doesn't stress the cars, teams and drivers the way they need to be in order to run for 24 hours.

Really ? I was lead to believe that it was simultaneous. Even after Procar was passed onto Boylan and the interim committee, Palmer continued working with the BRC to keep the race going.

There were two conflicting groups trying to keep the event going - but really - no one had the financial backing to run the event.

[storyline]

Originally Posted by Belly13

Personally, I think that the point which you make here is wrong. The Nation's Cup was the basis for the Bathurst 24 Hour in '02 and '03, and at each round they ran 3x20 min races - doesn't sound like a 24-Hour shakedown to me.

I hope you wrote this wrong because you say my point is wrong but then agree with me.

I also believe that there are categories which are definately capable of running a 24-hour event; GT Performance, GT Production and the GT Chammpionship (which seems to have strengthened since last year), Future Tourers, etc.

I never stated the categories were not capable of running 24 hours - but the teams and drivers were definately not given events that would show their weaknesses (or strengths for that matter). I will agree with on the 3 GT categories being capable - but not the Future Tourers.

If the BIMF does succeed this year, and in the short-term, perhaps a 6 or 12 hour race would benefit the event, and even up the show 'n shine and racing aspect of the event.

The best I think we will see - on any sort of regular basis - in Australia for this type of car is, at most, a 12 hour race.

For racing purists - there will be screams for a 24 hour event BUT, as I said before, the Australian motor racing public has shown it's 'dislike' of this type of racing.

Yes - initial events generally do well - but not afterwards (if they were deemed to be successful, why didn't Panoz try and run another event out here?

DISAGREE. I must say however, that it is so sacred due to the fact that it isn't used much at all. I would love to see more racing up there, yes, but in my opinion, there is a chance that it could devalue the circuit if drivers are up here 3/4 times a year.

Bathurst is overrated to the extent it IS a circuit for professionals - primarily because of cost. It is NOT a circuit you are likely to ever see State Level racing on - therefore it is out of the reach of the majority of Australian racing drivers/categories.

[storyline]

Originally Posted by silver 2

Storytime likes to take a negative view about everything and this is a trimmer .

I guess disagreeing with you is regarded as taking a negative view?
[/quote]The point conveniently overlooked is that from an entry point of view the cancelled 24 Hour was going to be oversubscribed with the depth and quality being a significant upgrading from the previous year. Many better amd more serious efforts were in the planning and the cancellation was a significant kick in the guts for a lot of people .[/quote]
This 'kick in the guts' was primarily with the people trying to put the event on - not the competitors. Talk to those actively involved in the event - the race was NOT oversubscribed (give Mike Dennis a call and talk to him about it)

If you do not run long races how do you get experience for teams,drivers and let everyone get used to the idea.All that takes time.The 1 Hour races have been a small step in that direction.There are several proposals floating for longer races at the moment.

Ummm - must be this negative aura around here - are you actually agreeing with me now?

Conceptually it is possible to fill the grid- not much doubt that would happen

Actually the past couple of years has shown this will NOT happen.

Look what happened to the event that Wakefield put on in 2004 - plenty of support when it was announced 'Yes - we'll run - great event, we need more like this - 500km race. Beauty'

What happened? 17 entries (26 in the 250).

And why?

Because of the cost of having to fit dry break systems, the cost of running for 228 laps became 'prohibitive' for many of the teams who were 'going to enter' and 'support endurance' racing.

We won't even mention the crowd - err sorry - the number of officials outnumbered the crowd for the main event (bad planning though also took care of that finishing the event - a 9:30 start and a 4 1/4 hour race)

So what happened - last years event gets cancelled due to 'lack of support'

And you honestly think these same teams will support a 24 hour race if they can't support shorter enduro races they say they 'can't afford to run'?

There is one other aspect that hasn't been mentioned yet - except for the purists, a 24 hour event is not something that can be easily followed at a track - it needs TV coverage - something the Bathurst 24 hour events totally lacked.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by 6.213km

It might be hard for those that have already decided we will never see another 24hour at Bathurst.... but answer this question;

If a 24hr Bathurst for GT cars came our way again; would you turn up to watch it ?

I went to both the 2002 and 2003 Bathurst 24 Hours (never been to the 1000), had a ball at both, it was great, bit of a farce rules wise, but all in all a great building block for the future. Of course i would attend if the race came back. Just the same as i would attend the 12-Hour production car race if it returned (i looked as forward to waking up on a chilly Easter morning to watch the start as i did to watching a pre-IMG/AVESCO Bathurst), or a bike meeting on the Mount......

The point is that two attempts have been made in successive years to stage a 24 Hour race at Bathurst since Ross Palmer pulled his support of it. Both have fallen short, and now the second date is taken....by an event that i'm not sure it even knows itself what it is......

May i ask though with regards to the MPAC bid for a 24 Hour race at the Festival for GT cars, how did they expect to get a grid at Easter for it? The top international teams would be to busy focussing on Nurburgring, Le Mans, or their regular championships. The thing the original 24 Hour had going for it was that it was at the end of the championship season for everyone.

[Sultan]

The Bathurst 12hr IMO had a much better class structure - sure, there were exotics & 'homologation' specals- RX7 SP, Porsche 968 RS, BMW M3R (even though that never ran), but all were production vehicles that the punter could buy off the showroom floor on the Monday (depending on your respective budget of course!! )

The 24hr, as great as it was & certainly could've been, didn't have that same feel about it - the 'race on Sunday, sell on Monday feel.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by 6.213km

It might be hard for those that have already decided we will never see another 24hour at Bathurst.... but answer this question;

If a 24hr Bathurst for GT cars came our way again; would you turn up to watch it ?

Yes.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by storyline

Because of the cost of having to fit dry break systems, the cost of running for 228 laps became 'prohibitive' for many of the teams who were 'going to enter' and 'support endurance' racing.


And you honestly think these same teams will support a 24 hour race if they can't support shorter enduro races they say they 'can't afford to run'?

However in 2002 all Australian teams amongst the many categories enterred were faced with these issues. 37 or how many of them still made it out there and put on a good show.

Preparation wasn't ideal,damn the raced was only officially announced in March, they had to spend money of all above mentioned equipment but what was put on was a good show. They all found a way to get there.

I am not saying that your point isn't a valid one, if such an event was serioulsy being looked at, it needs to be addressed however I feel it is an issue that will be overcome.

Originally Posted by racer69

May i ask though with regards to the MPAC bid for a 24 Hour race at the Festival for GT cars, how did they expect to get a grid at Easter for it? The top international teams would be to busy focussing on Nurburgring, Le Mans, or their regular championships.

For the life of me, when MPAC proposed a 24 Hour as part of a BIMF, I shant think they intended for the 24 Hour to kick off in April as their talking was of November.

One of the people from the MPAC group was frequent member of this forum during late last year. It would be nice if they popped back into shed light on many of the questions being put foward here.

[storyline]

37 entries for a track such as Bathurst is not, really, a good field though, is it? (not being flippant btw)

This is why I earlier made the comment about Bathurst being 'over-rated'.

An event such as this needs a track where people can easily see a majority of the track - not just the few hundred metres in front of them and then lights (at night only) in the far off distance. I hesitate to say that either Phillip Island or even Eastern Creek would possibly be a more suitable venue for a 24 hour enduro (forget the logistical and environmental problems for the time being though).

[Falcadore]

Seems to be ignoring the model of every other 24 Hour race on the planet. Well all bar Daytona I suppose.

So you can only see small amounts of the track at Bathurst. It's never stopped massive crowds showing up for the 1000. Nor does it seem to bother spectators at the 24 Hour of Spa. The Nurburgring event, you'd be luck to even see 1% of the Green Hell from any given space. And Le Mans isn't exactly an ampithetre either.

What do all the 24 Hour races have in common, even Daytona? A sense of grandeur. A Bathurst 24 Hour needs to a) capture that, and b) convey it. I can't help but think even Phillip Island would be too constricting.