Three Lakes Circuit, Switzerland

[olivk]

Hello racetrackfans!
It's been a while since i discovered this forum, and enjoyed your creations. As i'm a car enthusiast myself and like drawing racetracks just-for-fun, i thought i'd give it a try!

I live in Switzerland, and as some of you may know, closed-circuit races are still forbidden in my country, following the terrible 1955 accident at Le Mans. The only circuit we have is about 1300m long and except for old mini coopers, it's not so fun... There is a current project for a real track but facing oppositions from green-fanatics...

So i decided i'd propose in this forum, a project for a 1st real track in Switzerland. It's called Three Lakes Circuit because located in the flatlands between 3 major lakes. I didn't calculate the lenght of it but i think it's quite average. The pit straight is 600 meters long. My aim was to provide a great variety of curves, making it quite a technical track. It features slow as well as fast curves, 3 straights (last one being slightly "waved") , and 2 hardcore brakings. Width of the track is 10m, pit straight is 14m.

The track can be split in 2 separate tracks (the outer track and the inner track), the inner track yet not for racing use, using the cnonecting bits at T2 and T11. The inner track would be accessed from the north of the paddock.

It's also possible to shorten the track using one, or the other, or both, connecting bits at T1 and T7.

There are 3 buildings in the paddock area. From left to right: 1) The control tower and general building (administration, meeting rooms, schooling rooms, restaurant, etc). 2) The boxes. 3) Service hangar and private renting boxes.

I picked elements from 2 existing tracks : Paul Ricard HTTT (Le Castellet, France) for its "green islands on large runoff areas" design, and the pit entrance is copy-pasted from the circuit of Charade, in France too.

So, i hope you enjoy this track, and as always, every comments are welcome!

[Quintin03]

Beautiful. All these different turns both classic and modern. Realy a great track for a nation without decent tracks to this day. You've realy investigated very well what to do as, unlike with other newcomers, I can't find any safety problems such as pitlane entrance or exit at an unsafe location. With all the different layouts this track has it could easily serve all Swiss motor racing series together with one other track and a foreign track. Works well in the Netherlands. Keep it up. With such a good start I can't wait for the time you'll make your best work.

EDIT: Measured your track in google earth (one of the things it can do nobody would expect) and it turns out to be quite small. Only 4,1 km. That's no problem though. Maybe that would even be better because as such the track would be more compact, grandstands could be placead all around the circuit in a speedway like setup sothat people could see almost the whole track at once. That could also serve as a noise shield to get aproval from the neighbours. Only sugesting.

[bio]

Hi, olivk,
and welcome to My Tracks!

This is a truly beautiful "handjob" . A real eye candy. But, the best part is that it doesn't end there: the track is a great one! Another on of those I wish I made...

Great job, both thumbs up!

bio

[bio]

Originally Posted by Quintin03

Realy a great track for a nation without decent tracks to this day.

Someone here mentioned (much) earlier that the Swiss laws only allow point-to-point races, no closed circuit races are legal. I don't know if it's true, but maybe olivk can verify or bust this.

Originally Posted by Quintin03

Measured your track in google earth (one of the things it can do nobody would expect) and it turns out to be quite small. Only 4,1 km.

I guess 4.1 km. is OK. Sure, could be a bit longer, but no prob, I'd say.

bio

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Really nice circuit, obviously well thought out, with some nice variations.

4.1km is not a problem given the S/F is 600m.

If the whole circuit were properly up-scaled to allow say 800m for the S/F, it would probably take the whole circuit to a GP length of 5.4-5.6km at a guess.

[olivk]

Thanks for the comments and critics!

@Quintin : I thought about that too... it's a shame that Switzerland has to outsource BOTH racing series and America's cup ))) A lenght of 4.1 km is good i think fir that use. I don't see any interest in an F1-compatible track in my country (so far). Thanks fot the measuring!

@Bio : making clean handjobs is only a matter of practice.... *coughs*. And yes it's true that only point-to-point races are allowed here (IRC championship for example - and only need cantonal (=local) approval), which is just silly... a rally race IS more dangerous than track racing in a secured track.

[Purist]

Back about 2006, I thought that the ban had perhaps been lifted. Did that effort end in failure?

And yes, it is rather ironic today that it's point-to-point racing that is still allowed. Then again, in 1955, they couldn't imagine what major circuits would look like today. At that time, most circuits were closed public road courses, and those circuits were usually, decidedly faster than the rally courses and hillclimbs. At that time, the major circuit in Switzerland was the Bremgarten street circuit in Berne (which hosted the F1 Swiss GP in 1950-54).

[olivk]

@Purist : so far yes... and it's partly the fault of the initiants of the ban lift, because they called the initiative that should have been voted on "for the end of ban of formula one races"... Now the general opinion associates "race" with "F1", which is totally wrong, with a few exceptions no one really wants F1 races to be held again in Switzerland, no one here would invest in such a racetrack.

[shambles]

Sublime effort, you have a real eye for the perfect corner!

[bio]

Anyone knows why closed circuit races aren't allowed in Switzerland? What's the reason? That it's too dangerous?

Back to your circuit, and seeing all the positive feedback, I start to think Luiggi will want to marry you when he sees this design (I guess you're male, too )

bio

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by bio

Anyone knows why closed circuit races aren't allowed in Switzerland? What's the reason? That it's too dangerous?

Back to your circuit, and seeing all the positive feedback, I start to think Luiggi will want to marry you when he sees this design (I guess you're male, too )

bio

Several European countries stopped racing after this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1955_Le_Mans_disaster the break was very brief in most places but in Switzerland it became a ban and lasts to this day I think although I'm not certain it hasn't been lifted recently.

[LuiggiSpeed]

Originally Posted by bio

... I start to think Luiggi will want to marry you when he sees this design (I guess you're male, too )

bio

I couldn't have said it better! though I won't marry this guy

I think it's a perfect example of an efficient design, 4.1 K is very good and the track safety looks quite OK for me, I would want a little more room in T3 , someone loosing the front will take a dive into that lake, maybe making it a little slower? T16 also looks like a high speed affair, and I see room for more run off there, national and regional level racing shall be sanctioned as is, this is the kind of track I love, so I congratulate you olivk and I bout to your design, I'd love to ride it in my bike!!!

Welcome to the board!!!

[Purist]

I hope I'm not the only one who sees the similarities to Interlagos.

I'm not certain how, but I think I would slightly simplify the T7-T11 section, or at least have such an option for some series.

[olivk]

@ Purist (#13): I agree there is a certain similarity to Interlagos (in the T7-T11 section AND in the name ) ... and i admit i'm not 100% happy with that section, not because it has a bit of an Interlagos look - but somehow it doesn't look very interesting, maybe too complicated as you say. Will think of a better solution for this section.

[bio]

Dunno, i never thought of Interlagos... still can't see any particular similarity - but maybe it's just me.

bio

[shambles]

The T7 - T11 section is one of the best combinations on the circuit.

[nickyf1]

loving the 13-14-15-16 section! Turn 1 may require some balls in any sort of understeery car.

[LuiggiSpeed]

Seems all tracks have some resemblance to Interlagos lately!

I don't have a problem with any track having sections that look like other good ones, some tracks look very much alike, I don't think there's a copyright of track design , or do they?

[Quintin03]

Only on copying sections driectly instead of just being inspired by them. Copyright expires after 70 years anyway and I think Interlagos existed in 1940. Technicaly we could even make a track with a copy of the Eau rouge-Raidillon sequence at Spa as it was built in 1939.

[bio]

Originally Posted by Quintin03

Copyright expires after 70 years anyway and I think Interlagos existed in 1940.

Bingo! It was built in May 1940 - so we can go ahead and steal design ideas of it in two months

Although... the layout until 1990 was somewhat different:



bio

[Quintin03]

To me that version is actualy the most remniscent of this Three Lakes Circuit. Anyway only the changed sections still have copyright in two months so by then there's no problem at all.

[Tathrim]

OP: You'll need to re-upload the image, as it doesn't render in Firefox, and google chrome shows that whilst there should be an image, it's gone.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Olivk if you PM me the image I'll add it back into the original post. .... the joys of being a Mod

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Original Image has been added back into to First post.

[olivk]

About looking a bit like Interlagos: I'm not saying this to defend my track but i think that 2 tracks can LOOK on a 2D plan very much alike, and still be totally different to run. Small differences in radius, curve connecting, make a hell of a big difference once you run on them.

Could be a challenge, take the exact shape of an existing circuit, do up to 20% of changes in the radius of some or all curves and straight lenghts, and edit it in the 3rd dimension... to make something totally new

And thanks for adding back the picture!!!