[Race] Singapore Grand Prix

[Peter Mallett]

Sensible when one considers that the big loser was the championship contender.

Sorry for Max here and of course Kimi who made a tremendous start.

[Taxi645]

2nd time Vettel squeezes Kimi and Max at the first corner. Spa last year being the other occasion.

But yeah, let's focus on the "unexperienced" young kid...

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Why wasn't Wehrlein not released to unlap himself at the end of the final safety car? His being their prevented any chance of Sainz making a move on Bottas.

I'm not suggesting that Sainz would have been able to overtake Bottas, but surely consistency of safety car ending sequence has to be maintained across the season.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

2nd time Vettel squeezes Kimi and Max at the first corner. Spa last year being the other occasion.

But yeah, let's focus on the "unexperienced" young kid...

Well he's there to be measured against his peers and he is very good. On this occasion I believe both he and Kimi were blameless. I'd question any experienced driver being able to avoid that let alone a youngster like Max. And I'm not cutting him any slack either, because I like him.

The result of the enquiry was, IMO correct, because the biggest loser was the culprit. Vettel now has a massive hill tò climb and it's his fault.

[OmerRS]

Look at the angle of Vettel's car while they are still side by side:

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by OmerRS

Look at the angle of Vettel's car while they are still side by side:

Looks like Verstappen is moving over tad.

[JeremySmith]

Sebastian Vettel caused this accident ..

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Looks like Verstappen is moving over tad.

Because he is.

Vettel is 100% at fault for this accident. But accidents can be avoided even if they aren't your fault. It's pretty obvious what is about to happen. Max is blameless in that he holds not fault for the cause of it. But he had the opportunity to avoid Vettels silly move, and didn't.

If you're involved in a lot of accidents, even if none of them are directly your fault, you should be looking at why these are happening and how to avoid being caught in other peoples. This was one of those cases. Vettel at fault. Max needs experience. Kimi...he's just thankful to be there at this point isn't he.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Sebastian Vettel caused this accident ..

Yup.

[chillibowl]

for me i dont think i can apportion the majority of blame to any one driver. maybe 10% to driver X, 35% to Y, and 55% ot Z....i feel like this is by definition a racing incident. more so because it is turn 1?

[steve_r]

Seems to have turned a little childish in here.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Looks like Verstappen is moving over tad.

if you look at the onboards it actualy is Raikkonen that steered towards Max, also look at how much room Raikonnen still had to his left

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

if you look at the onboards it actualy is Raikkonen that steered towards Max, also look at how much room Raikonnen still had to his left

I haven't seen the onboard from Raikkonen's car but looking at that photo, he does have some room on his left.

[P38 in workshop]

I'm not assigning blame for the incident.I do wonder whether the fact that it happened shows another aspect of the shark fin in that it has to reduce the field of view of the driver or drivers alongside.Which would have to make it harder to know whats going on on the other side of the car in the middle.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I haven't seen the onboard from Raikkonen's car but looking at that photo, he does have some room on his left.

he had a lot of room, the wall is at the other end of the yellow lane

[steve nielsen]

https://twitter.com/MaVic009/status/909497457880399872

[Adam43]

He had a bit of room, but keeping off the yellow paint is a good idea in the wet. Might well have caused the same thing.

Anyway. There was no need for Vettel to squeeze them both. So why risk it? It's down to Vettel.

[Kempi]

We would not be talking about this had it been a two car situation. The way it was it screwed up Vettel's championship, something he could have avoided as the move was not fully necessary.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

he had a lot of room, the wall is at the other end of the yellow lane

I can see where the wall is. It's at the other end of the yellow lane but the paint on the yellow lane can be very slippery and treacherous in the rain.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I tended to see the start this way...

Vettel and Max both get decent and roughly equal starts. Both are focused on each other. Vettel is very aggressive on his squeeze on Max, but in general and IMHO when viewed by itself... a probably OK move if nothing had gone wrong. And I think that type of move is not uncommon. It does however require someone to back off.

Kim's had an excellent start and had a good gap and was going for it. If Vettel had not been squeezing Max and Max had likely not been focused on Vettel, he should have maybe given Kimi more room. But I think Max was mostly if not fully focused on Vettel and may not have seen Kimi, or saw him too late. Kimi had a good run going, was fully and equally beside Max with room to spare when the gap quickly closed.

My overall view? Racing incident. Three drivers all being aggressive and maybe within their bounds and it all coming together in a bad way. All three could have done slightly different things and the result may have been different. Kimi had room to his left. He could have given Max more room than he did, but he wasn't particularly crowding Max. Max could have lifted, but it was probably early to concede the corner. Plus, hard for him to focus on both cars. Vettel could have squeezed less aggressively.

I always like to point out that it's easy for us to do frame by frame slow motion to see who is holding what line, who turned when and we may even need to view replays multiple times to really analyze the situation. From my rough count, it is between 2-3 seconds between when Vettel adjusts his direction to squeeze Max to the collision between Max and Kimi. Not a great deal of time to be making decisions.

Semi related... Alonso looks like he would have been in third position if he had managed to fit through the first turn!

Richard

Good summation, 3 drivers 100% committed wanting to drive on the same piece of tarmac, as happens so often in this siuation something must give. If you want to apportion blame Vettel should have most of it for not realising Kimi was there + Kimi could have given Max more room. Max did nothing wrong.

No penalty for anyone was the correct decision IMHO.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

2nd time Vettel squeezes Kimi and Max at the first corner. Spa last year being the other occasion.

But yeah, let's focus on the "unexperienced" young kid...

I think i've been had by all the sarcasm. I thought we were referring to Seb as the "unexperienced" young kid.

[justracing]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Sebastian Vettel caused this accident ..

Wholly agree, this ridiculous on track intimadatory behaviour really should be stamped out once and for all. It's gone on far too long, started way back with Senna and mimicked by Schumacher both of whom were brilliant but in my mind flawed drivers and Vettel is in the same mould. If Vettel either can't or refuses to see that his actions in attempting to block Verstappen by steering across the track at such an angle were always going to result in an disaster then I'm afraid it's time he quit.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

https://twitter.com/MaVic009/status/909497457880399872

The main reason Kimi is pointing slightly away from the wall there is because of the contact.

Here is a better shot just before http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=106
The in car from Kimi shows he kept it straight and parallel until the contact.

It's just Vettel's squeeze.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

https://twitter.com/MaVic009/status/909497457880399872

It looks like Raikkonen's right front tyre is off the ground and contact between Verstappen and Raikkonen has already been made, as Vettel continues to move to the left.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It reminded me of the Schumacher Chop but poorly executed.

Exactly. And the day was always going to come when someone would refuse to be intimidated by it. TGF got away with it every time (to my annoyance). Several others have got away with it on occasions. TOGF has got away with it several times so it's not entirely unsatisfying to see it cost him so dearly this time.

Having said all that, the precedent was set long ago so I can't say that I would blame Vettel. He was the cause though.