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Old 22 Jan 2017, 08:45 (Ref:3704196)   #211
Gerard C
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[QUOTE=Mike Bell;3704187
It's a shame mileage can't be taken into the equation, but until all vehicles are talking to their respective manufacturers / authorities all the time, not very easy to do! Likely I'll be past caring by then, anyway! [/QUOTE]

Mike, if I were you I wouldn't bet on that because its already the case at least if you own an actual german car. They are "able" to make a self diagnostic and call a dealer or the rescue the satellite device helping to locate.
The 4 years then 2 years thing viva refers to is what we have here for private cars. Next target the motorcycles.
May be then electric bicycles…
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 08:47 (Ref:3704197)   #212
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Likely I'll be past caring by then, anyway!
Yeah, depressing innit!
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 09:48 (Ref:3704200)   #213
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Mike, if I were you I wouldn't bet on that because its already the case at least if you own an actual german car. They are "able" to make a self diagnostic and call a dealer or the rescue the satellite device helping to locate.
The 4 years then 2 years thing viva refers to is what we have here for private cars. Next target the motorcycles.
May be then electric bicycles…
I suspect that the figures available from the testing regimes will be showing that 4 years for the first test and 2 years between them are quite reasonable for modern cars.

Scrapping tests for much older cars was one of the few nanny State initiatives in decent decades that suggested they trust people to look after their own interests in life.

With most of the high mileage stuff being business vehicles presumably purchased on a full service lease plan I doubt lack of service bookings ought to be a problem, though my experience of the services delivered for company cars under old arrangements (not fully covered lease plans) suggested that the service delivered might not be up to much anyway.

Private finance tends to have a relatively low threshold for mileage before expensive payments kick in - say 10k pa. So 4 years around 40k and many cars are only just onto their second service by then according to their built in monitoring systems.

Potholes notwithstanding, I doubt the results of extended testing periods will have any real effect compared with the current regime. After all, whether one has it tested or not one is still ultimately responsible for the safety aspects of the vehicle at any age. So presumably they have found a new an more effective potential revenue stream at least as far as Government coffers are concerned. Probably the one about not being able to pass on Road Tax to a new owner for example.

By the time all of this rolls into place extensively new vehicles are likely to be fully tracked. The only issue is whether that is done by using rather expensive camera and sensor based monitoring networks, extending what is possible now via ANPR, or by the manufacturer's built in systems.

For pure road usage income generation the latter would likely work well enough, especially if the car could be disabled if it had not payment account/registered owner/had been reported stolen/etc. It would also be cheaper for government.

To accelerate the "uptake" all they have to do is introduce legislation that, in effect, result in older vehicles becoming unusable in terms of cost effectiveness within, say, 10 years. Or less. So quite similar to what Paris is doing at the moment and London has in place for many diesels.

Thus many cars will not get close to 100k miles in their working lives despite being designed and constructed, in recent times, for 2 or 3 times that use as a minimum.

Will be then the the manufacturers changing the quality standards on the basis that they are monitoring service and only need to make a car viable for 100k miles?

Or will this become a moot point as people abandon private ownership after being forced to take a hit on their city-living diesels and move to electric cars provided on a hire-as-you-need-it basis from hire pools?

At which point the MOT test suddenly becomes rather obsolete.
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 09:58 (Ref:3704201)   #214
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Yeah, depressing innit!
Well John, if things go the way I suspect they will, being past it may be a blessing by then.

Indeed the potential that the future might offer greater perceived independence for older people and the infirm of any age might offer some positives.

Likewise for the same groups (but few others) the concept of full time tracking could be considered positive as a social "good".

I just hope that using "Ludicrous" mode on the electric travel pod does not result in a hefty per use surcharge!
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 10:06 (Ref:3704203)   #215
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The 4 years to the first MOT thing has been rumbling on for a while now, it's also suggested that the tests are then carried out every two years instead of annually! Apparently it's being suggested by a non-driving politician to align us with the rest of Europe (which I thought we were leaving anyway?)
A totally crazy notion as it will mean that some cars & light commercials will have done over 100,000 miles before their first safety check (as sadly lot of people don't bother with the 'expense' of servicing nowadays!)
Given the number of nearly new cars with electrical faults (defective lights etc.) I suspect that a test when they are new could be more important than whether they have one after 3 or 4 years.

In Belgium, small engine cars that do less than a certain mileage have tests every 2 years.
One big difference with the UK is that every visit to a garage, tyre supplier etc. is logged, so the DVLA equivalent have a record of when it was serviced and parts have been changed etc. Of course such a system requires major computerisation which is something the UK has rather a poor record on!
Also cars have to tested every time they are registered.
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 10:22 (Ref:3704208)   #216
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A totally crazy notion as it will mean that some cars & light commercials will have done over 100,000 miles before their first safety check (as sadly lot of people don't bother with the 'expense' of servicing nowadays!)
In Spain, they also have the 4 year followed by 2 yearly tests for private cars. However, different rules apply to light commercials, small vans, hire cars and business owned cars, etc.. I am not sure about when the 1st test takes place for them, but the test thereafter are annual for those classes of vehicles.

They also increase the testing when vehicles are ten years old to annual for private cars (only for cars initially registered as for private use), whilst the other classes are increased to having tests every 6 months, even if, for example, an ex-hire car/business car was sold for private use.
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 10:42 (Ref:3704213)   #217
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In my experience there are more dangerous drivers on the road than dangerous cars, yet having passed (or having someone pass it for you) a driving test, one is neither required or even expected to continue learning.

I still apply lessons I learnt from experience only weeks after passing my test, and 59 years later continue to learn.

Could I at 80 pass a new driving test?
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 10:58 (Ref:3704217)   #218
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In my experience there are more dangerous drivers on the road than dangerous cars, yet having passed (or having someone pass it for you) a driving test, one is neither required or even expected to continue learning.

I still apply lessons I learnt from experience only weeks after passing my test, and 59 years later continue to learn.

Could I at 80 pass a new driving test?
How very true....

Gerard, if you buy a Tesla you are invited to sign (refusal is allowed) an agreement that allows them to collect all the data (via satellite or whatever) of your car journeys. They are using this to improve / perfect the autonomous driving mode that we will have to get used to eventually if we buy a new car! And they are able to pinpoint your car at any time anywhere in the world.....
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 12:03 (Ref:3704226)   #219
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Could I at 80 pass a new driving test?
You'd probably sail through the road test but could you pass the theory? It's amazing the amount of people that don't know the basics of the highway code or signs plus a lot of the newer stuff that's been introduced in the last 20 years or so.

As for the MOT this seems to be another rehash of the 4 year test with another consultation at the moment https://www.gov.uk/government/news/b...-first-4-years
As the link says the main reason for failure is lights, next would probably be tyres which on an average mileage wouldn't last 4 years and I constantly see cars in for the MOT test with dodgy tyres. Perhaps they should run more roadside checks on cars as well as commercials if they want to extend the MOT gap.
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 12:32 (Ref:3704231)   #220
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A totally crazy notion as it will mean that some cars & light commercials will have done over 100,000 miles before their first safety check (as sadly lot of people don't bother with the 'expense' of servicing nowadays!)[/QUOTE]


I used to work as a service engineer installing / maintaining automated systems all over the UK & Europe .
Normally doing well over 100,000 miles a year .
As well as our own vehicles we were supplied some cars / vans by a UK vehicle manufacturers test & development division for long term testing .
I suppose it suited them for independent high mileage testing .

All of the vehicles had data- logging fitted , & I often wondered what they thought when at the monthly service session ,[ usually about 10,000 miles ] ,
the log would show that it had done over 5000 miles in a week sometimes .

These vehicles would be returned after a year with over 100,000 miles on them , but I guess that they were not sold on as a used vehicle after that .
But similar use could easily see 1 year old vehicles for sale with that amount of miles on them & not needing to have been tested at all .
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 16:27 (Ref:3704249)   #221
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Le Bauble, your question is indeed very good and you could set the bar lower too. There had a hard discussion here to set it at 60 but it didnt work for several reasons, among them is that we can show no evidence of this drivers' category being more dangerous at wheel. In addition, they do represent a huge market so the less offenses the better.
Mike, didn't know that the Telsa is already turned on "Big Brother" mode…
Tim, few years I wanted to give help to some new drivers. So went to the theory and … failed of course! It had to see with the way the questions are asked: several answers are possible. When I last passed - in the seventies - the examination only one answer was allowed. Since this humiliating experience I improved myself but still dont feel really comfortable with this type of questionnaire. Too old for this stuff then?
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 17:14 (Ref:3704254)   #222
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When my eldest got to the age to start driving I bought a software application that set out to show people, using real in-car video, what was expected on the risk appreciation side of things.

You have probably all seen them. As the driving scene unfolds spot the risk and the sooner you spot it the better the score.

The videos were mostly not too bad - usually only one one very clear reportable risk which was helpful I thought.

But my scores were not great. Nothing much I did made them much better.

It turned out that I was spotting the potential risks before reaching the section of the video that was being measured. Nul points.

On a forum somewhere I mentioned this discovery and a chap who was at the time a a fully qualified traffic patrol officer in Scotland (so far as one could tell - seemed very likely to be genuine) mentioned that he also did not get great scores on similar videos but when his then girlfriend tried the test after a couple of bottles of wine she scored nearly 100%.

I have a vague recollection that he mentioned that she had never passed her test and did not drive even as a learner.

As you may imagine he was not entirely positive in his attitude towards the testing method at that time. (It had only recently been introduced.)
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 17:31 (Ref:3704256)   #223
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You have probably all seen them. As the driving scene unfolds spot the risk and the sooner you spot it the better the score.

The videos were mostly not too bad - usually only one one very clear reportable risk which was helpful I thought.

But my scores were not great. Nothing much I did made them much better.

It turned out that I was spotting the potential risks before reaching the section of the video that was being measured. Nul points.
I had exactly the same on a driver speed awareness course, I got a very low score but when we went through the video afterwards it turned out I'd got every potential hazard, but as you said, before the section for scoring started.
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Old 22 Jan 2017, 22:00 (Ref:3704313)   #224
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How very true....

Gerard, if you buy a Tesla you are invited to sign (refusal is allowed) an agreement that allows them to collect all the data (via satellite or whatever) of your car journeys. They are using this to improve / perfect the autonomous driving mode that we will have to get used to eventually if we buy a new car! And they are able to pinpoint your car at any time anywhere in the world.....
A friend had the Tesla rep in his workshop and while he was there a customer phoned to say he had locked his keys in his car, so the rep says tell me when you are stood by your car, gets his laptop out and at the right moment opens the car doors...
Just to make it even more impressive the rep was in the UK and the car was in the USA.

Apparently asking to not have your data collected is similar to the way you can refuse data collection by other computer companies.

None of which makes me tempted to buy one...
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Old 23 Jan 2017, 06:31 (Ref:3704393)   #225
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None of which makes me tempted to buy one...

I still have difficulty getting my head round the amount of time you have to allow for recharging during a journey. But, having said that, in the EV world Tesla are light years ahead with their 'Supercharger' facilities scattered all around the world. In the US they're are naturally even more of them.

I guess like driving a truck with the driving hours regs, you would discipline yourself to accepting that a trip would require stops at certain times for 'fuel', and adjust your life accordingly....

As I've mentioned before a very good racing friend drives his Model S (yes, it's got ludicrous mode ) all over Europe quite happily, but what he can't do is tow his race car behind!
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