So most of us don't need Hans devices!

[Heightswitch]

I see that the MSA have finally defined "period defined cars" for circuit racing to cars built before 1977…So only cars post 1997 require Hans devices..

I need to throw my helmet away this coming year and will purchase with posts but at least I don't have the worry of an additional bit of kit to accommodate in my little cockpit..

N.

[delta]

I've said this before about me not being the brightest on here , but your post sure is confusing height switch .moving on I have been wearing a HANS this year in single seaters I have raced and to be honest you don't know the thing is on .

[Heightswitch]

Originally Posted by Heightswitch

I see that the MSA have finally defined "period defined cars" for circuit racing to cars built before 1977…So only cars post 1977 require Hans devices..

I need to throw my helmet away this coming year and will purchase with posts but at least I don't have the worry of an additional bit of kit to accommodate in my little cockpit..

N.

Sorry have edited the post….There now appears to be a 1977 cut off date in Historics for circuit racing….Maybe I am the only one surprised but it seems that most of this year the story has been…"everyone" needs to have a Hans in 2016

[Mike Bell]

As I read it, the requirement to wear an FHR for racing in UK is from period J vehicles onwards. So when racing a car declared as anything up to end of 1976 (up to & incl period H) an FHR is not required. This is easy if car has V5, HTP or papers issued by someone like HSCC, but not sure how, when (club) racing something like a 924 without V5 or anything else, you prove the year of the car? Could be anything from 1976 to 1980s.....

This is an MSA National regulation, so guess still possible when / if competing in other countries, an FHR may be required!

So I will be buying a new helmet and FHR to enable me to race period J cars and just in case need one outside UK!

[Nick JM]

Mike/heightswitch

Now I'm confused!

Do fia appendix k need Hans or not?

Rules seem to suggest only cars built post 1977...is this correct?

Reptiles please addressed to "Thicko of Buckinghamshire"

[delta]

Chuffed that I'm not the only one who is confused .

[Heightswitch]

Originally Posted by Nick JM

Mike/heightswitch

Now I'm confused!

Do fia appendix k need Hans or not?

Rules seem to suggest only cars built post 1977...is this correct?

Reptiles please addressed to "Thicko of Buckinghamshire"

Thats exactly how I interoperate the ruling..Anything Pre 1977 it is optional but not compulsory..I just received classic lines newsletter from CSCC and they have a piece on it too..

My post wasn't meant to confuse It has just really surprised me that after spending most of this year gearing up for a shed load of expenditure replacing virtually new equipment It now appears that I don't have to.

N.

[Heightswitch]

Originally Posted by Heightswitch

Thats exactly how I interoperate the ruling..Anything Pre 1977 it is optional but not compulsory..I just received classic lines newsletter from CSCC and they have a piece on it too..

My post wasn't meant to confuse It has just really surprised me that after spending most of this year gearing up for a shed load of expenditure replacing virtually new equipment It now appears that I don't have to.

N.

From 1 January 2016 the use of an FIA-homologated FHR
is mandatory in MSA National Events * for the following
competitors:
ƒ All drivers and co-drivers in Stage Rally events, with the
exception of Historic Category 1 vehicles (pre-1968).
ƒ All drivers in Circuit Race events, with the exception of
Period Defined vehicles (pre-1977).
ƒ All drivers in Sprint and Hill Climb events, with the
exception of Roadgoing category vehicles & Period
Defined vehicles (pre-1977).
For details on Period Defined vehicles, please see the
definitions in the MSA Yearbook Section B (Nomenclature
and Definitions).

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Nick JM

Mike/heightswitch

Now I'm confused!

Do fia appendix k need Hans or not?

Rules seem to suggest only cars built post 1977...is this correct?

Reptiles please addressed to "Thicko of Buckinghamshire"

Nick, it's nothing do with whether car is AppK or not AppK. It's an MSA rule. RACE cars up to 31st Dec 1976, no FHR, cars from 1st Jan 1977, FHR reqd. Been talking with a scrutineer at Snetterton this morning, and he agrees that proving if car is Pre or Post start date will be the difficult bit....

Not sure what situation is with single seat open wheelers, thought they were being treated differently to closed wheel cars?

[delta]

Ok think I understand but sure don't see the logic in cut of date .

[Derwent Motorsp]

I understood it that historics will need then in 2017?

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by delta

Ok think I understand but sure don't see the logic in cut of date .

Iain - you expect logic in an MSA ruling?

[jhh911]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Iain - you expect logic in an MSA ruling?

Make it pre 1981 then I can afford at least 2 race entries next year instead of a bit of overpriced plastic.

[Paul D]

I don't see the logic in the cut-off date either, but if you turn up with a car of a type that was available before '77, and you say it's before '77, then I think they're going to have to give you the benefit of the doubt surely? They can't stop you racing just on a whim, or because they suspect it may be post-'76 - what would happen if they did that and you later provided proof that it was a '76? Are they going to refund all your expenses for the race they stopped you running in 'cos you didn't have a HANS? I don't think so, so they'd be laying themselves open to all sorts of legal action if they did that wouldn't they? (Caveat: I'm no legal expert!)

[MoMedic9019]

Frankly you are a bit stupid stepping into a racecar without it.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Frankly you are a bit stupid stepping into a racecar without it.

Absolutely right!

The effects

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk6HV-3iyi8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLCWPL_X3jE


There is no difference in the value of Gs in historic and contemporary racing, you are not going to survive because some twit with a pencil selected an arbitrary cut off date! Get the HANS device!


When this happens, your safety kit better be up to it.

Damien Flack expected to make a full recovery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqhMEskbYDY

[andy97]

I didn't realise that those people that race pre 1977 cars had such massively strong necks that they didn't need an FHR.

Once on, and strapped in a race car, you really don't realise that you are wearing one.

I would quite happily race without fire proof overalls. I wouldn't race without an FHR! No matter what the age of the car.

[terence]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Frankly you are a bit stupid stepping into a racecar without it.

Very diplomatic way of putting your point forward.
Lets not start pretending the HANS is the be all end all in a shunt.Forward motion fine BUT getting T Boned is a different matter as seen in a Mini challenge race a couple of years ago-side impact+HANS actually caused the drivers fractured collar bone.
Its a dangerous sport and things can go wrong very rapidly.You could wrap yourselves in cottonwool, ware the best protection money can buy, but it can still go very wrong!

[Mike Bell]

Looking back over previous threads on exactly the same subject, nothing has changed since the MSA announcement in 2014 regarding use of FHRs in circuit racing. All the latest announcement does is elaborate what a period defined car is. The latter is been available in the blue book for all to see, so was predictable.

FHRs became compulsory in post 1999 single seater classes at the beginning of 2015, and were to be made compulsory for all categories at the beginning of 2016- Except for period defined cars. I can see no reference to them being compulsory for 'historics' (drivers or cars?) in 2017....

No doubt the same discussions we are having here would have been happening when seat belts were about to be made compulsory, fire resistant race suits made compulsory, ROPS made compulsory........ There are still categories of cars that can be raced with no ROPS, no belts, rear axle only braking systems, etc. Their drivers have made a choice, some may think them 'stupid', and they are of course entitled to their own opinions, bluntly put or otherwise.....

[midgetman]

>>>>>>>>Make it pre 1981 then I can afford at least 2 race entries next year instead of a bit of overpriced plastic.<br />
,


Alas they are no longer over priced I yearn for the good ol' days when safety equipment was a matter of personal choice with commensurate profits.

Alas compulsion has brought massive price reductions. I've had to sell the yacht in Monaco and give up the lease on the 'copter.

Ah well time to get back to selling over priced plastic and romper suits. How else am I going to pay for the remaining Lear jet? And the bribe to the FIA for making HANS compulsory. Roll on cockpit safety nets! (Rubs hand avariciously)

[Duddha]

Hans is good as all head restraint device but let's not forget some basics...

The cockpit needs to be suited to the device including seat, belts and how they are fixed as well as side support for the head in case of a side impact.

Why do all modern singleseaters have specially designed headrest ? Because they are crash tested, datas are analysed and headrest is made to accomodate the use of a head restraint device as are the specially designed seat for touring cars, etc...

It is good but never forget that basic parameters exist for these devices and without applying them, it can be unsafe.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by terence

Very diplomatic way of putting your point forward.
Lets not start pretending the HANS is the be all end all in a shunt.Forward motion fine BUT getting T Boned is a different matter as seen in a Mini challenge race a couple of years ago-side impact+HANS actually caused the drivers fractured collar bone.
Its a dangerous sport and things can go wrong very rapidly.You could wrap yourselves in cottonwool, ware the best protection money can buy, but it can still go very wrong!

I would submit that if the HANS device put enough pressure on a collar bone to break it, he would probably have broken his neck without it!

If he would not have broken his neck, the device was not fitted properly!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Duddha

Hans is good as all head restraint device but let's not forget some basics...

The cockpit needs to be suited to the device including seat, belts and how they are fixed as well as side support for the head in case of a side impact.

Why do all modern singleseaters have specially designed headrest ? Because they are crash tested, datas are analysed and headrest is made to accomodate the use of a head restraint device as are the specially designed seat for touring cars, etc...

It is good but never forget that basic parameters exist for these devices and without applying them, it can be unsafe.

Where do you see special equipment here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk6HV-3iyi8

If properly adjusted, it will help with normal racing shoulder straps!

If you don't have them in your racing car, you are beyond help!

Here is a really good illustration of HANS v no HANS in a rally crash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g40YatgE_CE

[wnut]

No HANS

[wnut]

HANS Device