Looking to the Future : Jaguar

[Wrex]

It's been a ricky ride so far at Jaguar. A number of Team bosses, Ford's inconsistant view of the team and the failed attempt to steal Adrian Newey.

Eddie Irvine had a mixed fortune, with some impressive results scattered between an otherwise poor performance. Some think he did a great job, others don't. Regardless, the results have never been their.

2002 was IMO the teams worst effort. After some radical changes 2 new rookies were signed and the team is in the middle of a rebirth. Apart from the obvious reliability problems, the team seem to taken a big step forward.

Antonio has'nt been the star many thought, and rumours of his pending departure probably made things worse. Webber on the other hand has got on with the job and shown us the big cat purrs better than the previous K9.

Now we have rumours that Wilson may end in the team, others have speculated DC, Ralf and even Wurz may partner Webber in 2004.

Where to now for Jag? Can they make the next step forward? Is Webber the man to do it for them? Will Ford pull the plug before they get the chance? What should Jag do to join the big 3 in 2004?

[marcus]

hard to say , you can just never tell with Jag , just when you think that they look like getting it right , it all falls over.

Webber has been impressive but thats it JUST impressive , the results are not coming and it must be worrying the head honcho's at Ford.

I dont think Jag will join the big 3 next year , they dont have a hope renault are probably the 4th team in the "Big 3" if thats possible
I just dont see jag getting things right this year or next but i hope im proved wrong and they can get genuine podiums this year , otherwise Webber would be better served getting out of there quick smart

[f1manoz]

I think Jaguar did the best things starting with a clean sheet at the end of last year. The whole effort had gone stale and backward. Now they could be on the verge of big things.

However, it will take time and that is one thing Ford will have to understand. There are no instant rewards when it comes to F1.

But if the team are smart, they will stick with Webber. He's already got them listening to him and it's obvious it's working. He has the speed, the car is getting better, they just need some reliability and luck.

[MiniMe]

What should Jag do to join the big 3 in 2004?

Jaguar is making BARf, Sauber and Jordan look like World Constructor's Champions. They're only four points ahead of Minardi! The first thing they need to do to join the top three, is leave the bottom three!

Where to now for Jag?

Into the library to study the history of F1 so they can understand it takes years of commitment and continual improvement to win. Reliability and continuity is wants needed at Jag.

Can they make the next step forward?

I'm not sure they're even taking baby steps forward. They're just driving around in circles.

Is Webber the man to do it for them?

He's a page out of Schumacher's story - Webber seems to be an engineer's dream driver - always working hard to improve the car, and get the best out of the car. Signing Webber is the best thing that Jag have done, and signing for Jag is the worst thing that Webber has done.

Will Ford pull the plug before they get the chance?

If Ford wants to continue in F1, then Jag has the most latent potential of the teams with which they're associated. When you're at the bottom of the table, you can only go up - or out!

[BSchneiderFan]

I think, as has been said, 2004 will not be a breakthrough year. What Jag needs desperately is stability. Webber is a good choice, in my view; quick, dedicated, intelligent and charismatic. If he sticks around long enough, Jag could very much become 'his' team. Let's hope he can lead them forward.

As for their second seat, they either have to dump Pizzonia at the end of the year and sign someone else - Wilson? Wurz? Davidson? - on a three- or four-year deal (again, stability). And they have to take on a good test driver.

[jetsetter]

I think Jaguar have got it right in signing Webber for another couple of years because as well as being a talented driver his knowledge gives the team great feedback, i just hope Jaguar have implemented a long term strategy to go with the re-signing of Webber rather than the wait & see approach they've had since joining F1. As for the issue of the other driver i hope that when they sign the driver for 2004 they decide on a two year deal & give Webber & the new driver the full two years & then i think they'll start to deliver consistently good results & maybe challenge the top three.

[Mattracer]

Already it's been proven that Webber is a thinkng, analytical driver who is not afraid of lots of very hard work. This will only be to his benefit- other teams are always watching.

Finishing the races is no problem for him, the driver, but developing the car so it does finish, and in the points is where he will earn his stripes.

[Armco Bender]

How long before they paint the Jags all white and simply call them Fords,must have more long term appeal having a car branded a Ford racing,and it would bring in millions more fans than running as Jag.The average Jag owner here would be a 60year old,white,male,wealthy person,whose probably a bit eccentric.Its probably that mental image that puts me off the Jag team.

[billiaml]

Perhaps that's the image thay they're trying to change thru their involvement in F1? Plus the addition of the X-Type that's targeted @ a younger market -- younger than 60, that is.

[BootsOntheSide]

"The future will be better tomorrow", as Dan Quayle so infamously put it.

Jaguar are now finally on the right track. The people in charge of the team are doing a good job, the car is clearly impressive, and Mark is a fine catch. All they need is stability, nothing radical on the design front, and they'll be threatening for wins by late next year.

[Logrence]

I very much doubt they'll get anywhere near wins before Ford pull the plug on them - it's the unwritten law of F1 - the more money you throw at a burgeoning F1 project the results are the inverse...

[stevebrown]

Why is it every Jag thread seems to be an excuse to slag them off. Pull the plug this & wont do anything that. Jaguar are getting their act together. The right people are in place and Webber is a great asset. Jungle Boy? A good driver but time will tell. The stability is already there, the results will come. And why do people seem to think Bill Ford sits at his desk with his finger over the button waiting to blow Jaguar's plans out of the water? The budget is no longer a bottomless pit so he's happy. He was only worried about the fact the Irvine was the highest paid employee at Ford and didn't know who he was.

They are getting there, but to expect for overnight success is like asking the next President of the United States to sought out the economy in a week after 4 years of Bush.

Steve B

[Jalt]

I think people respect Jag more...

Everyone can see that Jag now has the foundations to be an excellent team (GREAT engingeers, great minds and atmosphere) so seems like other teams are starting to get afraid of the time when Jag gets the reliability its after (PLS PLS PLS PLS).

This was never supposed to be a year where Jag could start challenging the top 3 or 4 teams. But I think they've surprised themselves and others, so the expectations put on them have become higher. People now expect them to be in the top 5 or something? They never expected that in the beginning of the year, I don't think.

Yeah it's frustrating seeing DNF's or if Webber and Pizza dont get in the top 10 in qualy. But only coz our expectations have been raised because of what they have acheived (?? :confused: ?? ...u get my drift , i hope).

p.s. is Bill Ford a fan of f1?

HAPPY LONG WEEKEND TO THE AUSSIES!!!

[Wrex]

Seriously, apart from the Webber and Jaguar diehards, did anyone seriously expect them to be better than anyone than Minardi this year?

And look at the results. Webber has stunned many in qualifying (especially on Fridays so dont tell me it's low fuel). This Jag has some pace. When they get the reliablility to match that pace they will easily be the 5th bet team this year.

And who the hell would have thought that?

[BSchneiderFan]

I think Jaguar are putting in place the foundations of long-term success, but it will take time.

And, call me crazy, but I still think dumping Bobby Rahal was the stupidest thing they did.

[enemy-ace]

Jaguar are definitely on the up, despite what a lot of people with their own agendas want you to think. They are also becoming more self-sufficient and not relying on papa Ford's generosity. If anything Ford have done the right thing by cutting the budget and getting rid of the self-serving egos, and putting real professionals in place.
Having Webber in their car is turning out to be a great coupe; now they need another quick driver who is a more consistent than Pizzonia. Pizzonia may be quick but it is too sporadic, and you can't develop a car with inconsistent feedback. A dedicated tester would be helpful, someody like an Allen McNish.
Jaguar need both cars to be pushed like Webber is pushing them; but overall I am starting to feel really good about Jaguar!

[enemy-ace]

Originally posted by gttouring
and why do Jordan Fords do so much better?

I don't think one fluke win constitutes better.

[Wrex]

Jordan are not doing better, unless luck is better.

Jordan have Fisi and reliability. If Jag start finishing races, only the top 4 will finish in front of them.

[alfasud]

Originally posted by stevebrown
Why is it every Jag thread seems to be an excuse to slag them off. Pull the plug this....

Why is it that evey Jag thread seems to bring people out of the woodwork who say that if only Ford would throw some more money at them, they would somehow come right? Stewart can win with Ford/Cosworth engines (back in 1999), Jordan can win with Ford/Cosworth engines, but it seems Jaguar can only spend more and more of Ford's money.

Once Jaguar were a respected company - winning Le Mans and Touring car events, but now they are just a joke.

Originally posted by enemy-ace
Having Webber in their car is turning out to be a great coupe

But it should be a great single seater, not a coupe - if they want to race a coupe, they should try ALMS or FIA GT's.

My prediction; with a combination of good luck and good driving, Webber will get a podium this year and Jag fans will rush to tell everyone how this means Jag have finally turned the corner..... until the realists point out that Irvine got a podium last year with the horrible R3 (Monza I think) and the year before too (Monaco?), and nothing much has really changed.

[Wrex]

C'mon alfasud, as a former Jag joke maker, I can see the car is much faster than anything else they have produced.

Yes Irvine got 2 podiams, but they were either very lucky or on the one track that suited the car. Jag has never consistantly shown the pace that this years car has.

[alfasud]

Hey Wrex, I predicted a podium.... given that we're close to mid season and they're having difficulty finishing a race, I'd say that I'm being optimistic.... how many podiums do you think they'll get?

Yes they have some pace this year, but it's no use if you can't finsh a race.

[Wrex]

Originally posted by alfasud
Hey Wrex, I predicted a podium.... given that we're close to mid season and they're having difficulty finishing a race, I'd say that I'm being optimistic.... how many podiums do you think they'll get?

Yes they have some pace this year, but it's no use if you can't finsh a race.

Very true. In the past though they have had neither pace or reliability. Just luck.

I'm not sure they will get a podaim this year (given the reliability of the top 4), but they are more deserving of one now than previous years.

I think they can move forward, but it's a long road ahead.

[enemy-ace]

Originally posted by alfasud

But it should be a great single seater, not a coupe - if they want to race a coupe, they should try ALMS or FIA GT's.

coup ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k)
n. pl. coups (kz)
A brilliantly executed stratagem; a triumph.

I think you get the idea sorry my poor spelling threw you.

As for the reliability; I think someone once said that it is better to make a quick/unreliable car reliable rather than a reliable/slow one quicker. I don't think anyone with a grasp of reality is predicting them to be world beaters straight away; but you have to see they are making definite progress.
As for Ford throwing more money at them. I don't think you heard me say that; if anything Ford's cutting of the budget has made the team a more cohesive unit.

[alfasud]

Sorry about the coup/coupe thing enemy-ace - I just couldn't resist. As for the budget.... maybe they should cut it down to Jordan levels

[enemy-ace]

No worries alfasud For Jag to get their budget down to Jordan levels though wouldn't they have to face near financial ruin first
Actually maybe they could hire Eddie irvine back, because lord knows the return on investment there was hardly beneficial.