LMP2 Manufacturers and Engine Suppliers - Page 36

helgi · 21 Mar 2015, 19:00 (Ref:3518019)

Wasn't it VAG engine mentioned? Maybe, badged as, let's imagine, Lamborghini?

CTD · 22 Mar 2015, 12:21 (Ref:3518323)

I noticed in the 12H Sebring coverage that Mazda said they would participate at Le Mans in 2017 in LMP2, using the BOP rule for the US based teams.

Sadly Mazda also confirmed the single engine supplier rule for WEC.

**joeb** · 22 Mar 2015, 12:44 (Ref:3518328)

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTD

I noticed in the 12H Sebring coverage that Mazda said they would participate at Le Mans in 2017 in LMP2, using the BOP rule for the US based teams.

Sadly Mazda also confirmed the single engine supplier rule for WEC.

Yes but not a single engine in IMSA! Doonan also alluded to the fact that they aren't sure what engine Mazda will be running in 2017. Sounded like they weren't settling on the diesel yet.

Starfish Primer · 22 Mar 2015, 13:02 (Ref:3518336)

Before talking about P3 I would like to see them on track and how they evolve because there have been serious problems with the latest Prototype breeds. If those Ginettas don´t perform a lot of teams will be in serious trouble.

wdave0 · 22 Mar 2015, 13:34 (Ref:3518349)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeb

Yes but not a single engine in IMSA! Doonan also alluded to the fact that they aren't sure what engine Mazda will be running in 2017. Sounded like they weren't settling on the diesel yet.

There's plenty of precedent - the Bentlys of 2001-3 ran as LMGTP class so it could well work out to P2GTP or LMP2IMSA.

HORNDAWG · 22 Mar 2015, 18:31 (Ref:3518402)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeb

Yes but not a single engine in IMSA! Doonan also alluded to the fact that they aren't sure what engine Mazda will be running in 2017. Sounded like they weren't settling on the diesel yet.

Sounded to me like he was talking about the diesel (in that it did NOT sound like they would be switching to anything else).

L.P.

truebeliever · 22 Mar 2015, 19:37 (Ref:3518411)

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTD

I noticed in the 12H Sebring coverage that Mazda said they would participate at Le Mans in 2017 in LMP2, using the BOP rule for the US based teams.

Sadly Mazda also confirmed the single engine supplier rule for WEC.

Aside of the fact that diesel engines are not permitted in the ACO rules for the current LMP2, never mind the new spec 1 engine make coming for 2017, what would the point be for them to go do a 24 hour race, when they are totally uncompetitive here in a 3 hour sprint race? That would come under the heading of dreaming, somewhat wet at that.

isynge · 22 Mar 2015, 19:47 (Ref:3518414)

Quote:

Originally Posted by truebeliever

Aside of the fact that diesel engines are not permitted in the ACO rules for the current LMP2, never mind the new spec 1 engine make coming for 2017, what would the point be for them to go do a 24 hour race, when they are totally uncompetitive here in a 3 hour sprint race? That would come under the heading of dreaming, somewhat wet at that.

The Mazda LMP2 diesel is the sort of project that always strikes me as an ideal Garage 56 project - in line with what cars that run at Le Mans can be like but with something different applied to it. Run as a G56 entrant, fiddle about with weight and some of the other things that might make it a bit more competitive, and you might have something that serves everyone's purpose.

TF110 · 22 Mar 2015, 20:50 (Ref:3518428)

Theyre trying to make it a street car engine or like it, right? Why not just go lmp1 and upgrade it within those confines? Its lighter than Audi's engine. Maybe someone should rethink the lmp2 route for their future.

BullMan · 22 Mar 2015, 20:57 (Ref:3518431)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

Theyre trying to make it a street car engine or like it, right? Why not just go lmp1 and upgrade it within those confines? Its lighter than Audi's engine. Maybe someone should rethink the lmp2 route for their future.

Because that would cost tens of millions more than they are spending now.

chernaudi · 22 Mar 2015, 21:03 (Ref:3518434)

The Mazda diesel engine is already a stock block engine--basically the same diesel engine that's found in the Mazda 3, Mazda CX-5 and Mazda 6 in NA/EU/JDM.

That's part of where Mazda's failings are with that engine. Though they're asking for it to make less power, the loadings per cylinder is greater than that of the Audi TDI V6 (2.2 4 cylinder vs 3.7 or 4.0 V6), and not being a V engine means that there's more torsional forces than with a stiffer V block. Also, most inline 4s can't be stress mounted like V engines can.

Granted, Mazda did design a new cylinder head for the engine this year, but they almost have to do as Audi and design a car around the engine/integrate the engine and chassis as a unit, something they can't do with the Lola chassis and stock block engine. And that's certainly something they can't do and maintain the spirit of the ACO's cost cap for LMP2 cars and IMSA's cost cap for DP cars.

The biggest issue with integration is that the Lola/Hewland gearboxes have had issues with the engine (though those are mostly electronic issues and not so much mechanical), and above all else, the Lola chassis has had difficulty with heat rejection from the diesel engine (something that Audi solved over the years with aggressive radiator design, though using technology that's expensive for LMP2), and the times where they did well with engine cooling, there was too much drag due to the huge cooling vents in the sidepods.

But at least if Mazda does go garage 56 they can't do worse than the Nissan ZEOD did last year (break down after a few laps) or the WR Green GT (never turned a lap at LM or in anger anywhere).

HORNDAWG · 22 Mar 2015, 21:30 (Ref:3518442)

Quote:

Originally Posted by truebeliever

Aside of the fact that diesel engines are not permitted in the ACO rules for the current LMP2, never mind the new spec 1 engine make coming for 2017, what would the point be for them to go do a 24 hour race, when they are totally uncompetitive here in a 3 hour sprint race? That would come under the heading of dreaming, somewhat wet at that.

Aside from the fact that in the 2017 ACO/FIA P-2 no engine will be legal other than the spec unit. Except for those coming from TUSC for Le Mans that will have a BoP applied, why would a diesel be any less outside the ACO/FIA rules than a nonconforming petrol/gas engine?

L.P.

ger80 · 22 Mar 2015, 21:58 (Ref:3518449)

LMP2 engines have to be non-stressed, not?

TF110 · 22 Mar 2015, 22:06 (Ref:3518453)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullMan

Because that would cost tens of millions more than they are spending now.

Youd have to spend more to go to lmp1 anyway. Thats my point. Them continuing in lmp2 with a diesel wont happen with the new engine rules. So if theyre staying in lmp, maybe TUSC doesnt mind or theyll have to step up a class.

TR. · 23 Mar 2015, 00:13 (Ref:3518477)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ger80

LMP2 engines have to be non-stressed, not?

I believe so being derived from road car spec engine blocks.

Ospi · 23 Mar 2015, 06:00 (Ref:3518511)

Yeah they Mount from the bell housing.

TzeiTzei · 23 Mar 2015, 06:24 (Ref:3518517)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

Them continuing in lmp2 with a diesel wont happen with the new engine rules.

Why not? Diesel isn't legal now in LMP2, and still they race in tusc. So what will change?

ger80 · 23 Mar 2015, 08:02 (Ref:3518537)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ospi

Yeah they Mount from the bell housing.

So torsional forces as mentioned above are not that relevant ...

TF110 · 23 Mar 2015, 09:23 (Ref:3518550)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TzeiTzei

Why not? Diesel isn't legal now in LMP2, and still they race in tusc. So what will change?

Because they intend to enter Le Mans? Thats how the story goes apparently.

TzeiTzei · 23 Mar 2015, 11:26 (Ref:3518580)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

Because they intend to enter Le Mans? Thats how the story goes apparently.

Oh I thought that was just something that you guys came up with. Carry on.

rdjones · 23 Mar 2015, 11:42 (Ref:3518584)

I still can't get my head round this one, I just don't get it. In my view there nothing wrong with P2 and is variety the spice of life.....

I think that these rules stop people taking part in top line sports car racing. Take our old friends Embassy Racing for example, they go there hands on an off the shelf car with the Radical and they like what they saw so the following year they built there own car which to start with was on the pace, however towards the end of that season they where getting. Now I no the program shut down not long afterwards but had that program carried on who know where they would have been now.

Talking of Embassy Mike Newton has the cars now and he was in the process of bringing them up to the current spec and re-badging them as Tiga and it would have been nice to see them on the grid, but thanks to these silly new rules that is not going to happen and the project has been put on hold. I did something by Graham Goodwin on Facebook say that some other P2 programs have been brought to halt as well just the news isn't public yet.

Peat · 23 Mar 2015, 11:57 (Ref:3518585)

I get it.

It's the boys club not happy that too many people are making a decent living out of a thriving category.

This decision came out of nowhere, with zero consultant (well, apart from the parties who are in on it) and was likely formalised over a lovely Horse-Steak dinner and a fine bottle of Merlot.

It's such an obvious stitch-up by greedy little men. I hope they all enjoy holidaying on each others yachts at the expense of LMP2.

Good night.

JHamilton · 23 Mar 2015, 12:35 (Ref:3518594)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

Because they intend to enter Le Mans? Thats how the story goes apparently.

It doesn't matter, they would be BoP'd. The new engine rules will not make it to TUSC, quite the opposite.

JHamilton · 23 Mar 2015, 12:36 (Ref:3518595)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandemonium

Pierre just twitted this crap
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...01360626766950
How much has he payed him?

All with a twitter should go BOOOOO him.

Why would you blame Hugues de Chaunac for being a good businessman? Blame the organizers.

Rodger Davies · 23 Mar 2015, 13:19 (Ref:3518610)

On that note, can you blame Pierre for being a good businessman? Who knows what the value of potential kickbacks are (at this bidding stage and future ones)?

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