The Porsche vs Ferrari (or Badger vs brielga) thread

[old man]

Originally Posted by Nicola

Ferrari, simply the best!

I would bet that Virgo management and sponsors are not saying that, factory rebuild and brand new engine, no power steering after 4 hours and a blown engine after lying second for 12 hours

[cmk]

Even if we assume that #76 and #80 would have had trouble-free races, there was a major mechanical problem with 1 Porsche of 3 and 2 Ferraris of 7. Now, the 2 Ferrari problems were fatal, but still it mus tbe said that the manufacturers compared favourably for reliability.

[rich07]

Forza Risi Competizione!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great to see Salo/Melo/Bruni bring it home for Ferrari!!

1-2-3-4 for GT2!
(Now you Porsche guys know what we went through in the 996/360 era )

Its a shame that Audi won but to see Ferrari win GT2 makes up for it!!

[Spyderman]

Once again I have to congratulate Ferrari on their win.
Perhaps it should be more of a congratulation for actually lasting the race.
The Porsche were quicker, and had they had an all-professional driver line up in their cars (and had not taken each other out) I'm sure that they would have been able to win Le Mans.
But the truth is that they didn't!
It was a very poor showing, and the only comfort that they can take away from that abysmal performance, is that the car (not the teams) are currently faster than the F430's.

[NightStalk3r]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Once again I have to congratulate Ferrari on their win.
Perhaps it should be more of a congratulation for actually lasting the race.
The Porsche were quicker, and had they had an all-professional driver line up in their cars (and had not taken each other out) I'm sure that they would have been able to win Le Mans.
But the truth is that they didn't!
It was a very poor showing, and the only comfort that they can take away from that abysmal performance, is that the car (not the teams) are currently faster than the F430's.

It was a factory drivers mistake that took the IMSA and Lizards car out of the race, so an all Factory lineup would have made no difference.

[Spyderman]

Maybe I was not clear.

They needed to have a proffesional driver line up and not take each other out.

[The Badger]

Well , what a tragic surprise that result was !!!

Absolutly ****ing awful what Long did ..... He was the driver behind and was the driver responsible for that "manouvre" !!! Nieman was looking out for his "new" hoofs and was playing safe .

Absolutly gutted for the crews and teams .

So , Fiat had their way , and fair play to them . I just wish it had been Virgo , I was out on track when we heard through RLM that Virgo had retired , and listened to the emotion in Mullen's voice ..... I felt gutted for them .

But what a star drive for the Lizards ..... comeback to 5th .

What do I have to do now ?

[JoeF]

Well a little consolation for us Porsche fans this week is Prospeed's Monza victory was reinstated today!!!!

http://www.fiagt.com/newsitem.php?key=1617

[cmk]

To be fair, a factory Porsche driver would not be loafing along on his first flyer still warming up his tyres in quite the manner someone like Neiman would, but it's still Long's cock-up in the end.

[Dario911]

Guys, you don't understand! Porsche crew has decided to give race to Ferrari, to make them happy once.
It was the only way for Ferrari to win in Le Mans!
So, the Porsche has been generous with its rivals. Ferrari was trying to win from several years, but without any result.
At the Porsche, someone has thought: "Why don't we give the win to Ferrari? Poor children! The only way to win would be to crash the 911s, too much fast fo their Fiat!".
And so, they've done.

Porsche rules! I'm sorry for the italian car's supporters. You've only a greatful luck! Unfortunately for you, your Fiats were 1"6 slower than our 911. We have been the only to down 3'59"...

[The Badger]

Maybe so Dario but , the history book will remember the winner , not the fastest lap .

It totally distroyed what was shaping up to be a brilliant battle .

Porsche had done a deal with Ferbermayr , that if the car was in contention that Felbermayr Sr , would step down and let to 2 young lads hammer away with it .....

Absolutly gutted about the race !!!

[The Badger]

Ha ..... Prospeed got their Monza win back ..... Cheating North African sods !!!

Oh , and won the Nurburgring 24 hours too !!!

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by cmk

To be fair, a factory Porsche driver would not be loafing along on his first flyer still warming up his tyres

Yeah , point taken ..... I couldnt believe it when I saw it happen on the screen ..... I was utterly god smacked . I could see a Ferrari taking out a Porsche , given the battle that was supposed to happen , but a Porsche V's Porsche was beyond belief !!!

[Spyderman]

Badger - Good to see you back safely mate.
I suppose it's a good thing I didn't go to Le Mans this year, as I would have gone into conniptions seeing that pitiful sight up on the screens.

[The Badger]

Cheers ..... We had a brilliant time . Weather was mostly great , a little cold at night , and well , you know about the race by now so you dont need to hear it from me ..... fantastic week .

Though Pat Long is not my flavor of the month at the minute !!!

It was great to be there , already looking forward and booked for next year . Any idea if you will make it next year ?

Tellya what Spyder ..... dem darn Fiat's are agrowin on me boy !!! They do look and sound good ..... but not as good as a Porsche !!!

[Spyderman]

Next year is my 10th anniversary since I was at Le Mans.
It'll be my 50th Birthday (also in June) and my wife's 40th(soon after)
We really want to go home (Portugal) and be with family and friends for the special occasions...and of course in order to make it really special, we will try and fit in the 2010 Le Mans!
Lets keep our fingers crossed.

[Spyderman]

Sorry! I meant 2009 Le Mans!

[The Badger]

Your last post was number 777 ..... gotta be some luck in that Spyder .

[F360]

Originally Posted by The Badger

dem darn Fiat's are agrowin on me boy !!! They do look and sound good .....

Mr.Badger !
Such words from you, of all people...

Welcome into the world of Fiat

[cmk]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Yeah , point taken ..... I couldnt believe it when I saw it happen on the screen ..... I was utterly god smacked . I could see a Ferrari taking out a Porsche , given the battle that was supposed to happen , but a Porsche V's Porsche was beyond belief !!!

I don't think contact between a Ferrari and a Porsche was very likely, but then again neither was the 76/80 crash so...

It is a pity that we did not get to see more of a battle though, since 77 and 82 were going pretty good for a few hours there.

Dario, I don't really see what the point of Porsche having the fastest lap is. I think we have seen many years before, and saw again this year, that having the fastest car at LM is not always the greatest idea, and that some teams (eg. Audi) will set their cars up to be slower and yet to be winners. So what, pray tell, was the utility of having the fastest lap if your car doesn't finish first?

#80 was fastest, sure, but they had nothing to lose and everything to gain, just like #8. #77 was also faster than the Ferrari brigade but ate its clutch, and the fastest Ferrari blew its engine...

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by F360

Mr.Badger !
Such words from you, of all people...

Welcome into the world of Fiat

Hey ..... I wouldnt go that far mate !!!

Always did like the F430 .....

[The Badger]

I think the point Dario is trying to point out , is that Porsche have come a long way this year , to bring the fight back to Ferrari , which they have , as is suggested by the lap times .

Im delighted to see Porsche and Ferrari on a more even level than at the start of this year ..... cant wait for the next round of LMS & ALMS !!!

[cmk]

Bearing in mind that the #80 car had the fastest race lap last year as well (a 4:03.821) I am not sure that point is as valid as it initially seems. I agree that Porsche have generally closed the gap, and I think the two manufacturers are close enough to trade times based on which car is best suited to a given circuit, but LM has always favoured Porsche for outright pace and this year is not much different than last in that regard.

For further reference the best lap of the #76 race-winner last year was a tenth quicker than the best lap of the #82 which lead the lion's share of the race, and the difference in ultimate pace between #80 and #82 last year was fairly similar to this year's gap (1.4 seconds in '07, 2.2 seconds in '08). I think that this helps reinforce the fact that Risi tends to go for consistent race pace runs. Last year they had a good shot without finding water, and this year it worked for them.

[Spyderman]

I'm not sure that Risi tends to go for consistent race pace runs. The Ferrari strategies have in the passed been based on opening up a sufficient gap over the "slower" 997's right from the start and then "manage"the gap.
The 997 has always had a slight advantage in straight-line speed, and that advantage manifests itself clearly at Le Mans.
That gap was substantially larger this year (1.4 to 2.2 is quite a difference 57% more) because the 997 EVO has much better handling in the fast corners than last years car.


Also - Didn't the Ferrari last until the 11th. Hour last year? (I really can't remember)

[cmk]

The percentage change you quote there for the difference is kind of meaningless as a statistic. I mean, had the gap been 0.1s, you could have a 100% increase to 0.2s. Who cares. The fact remains that Porsche stretched the gap by 0.8s over a 4 minute lap. If that's substantial to you, well, I guess that's just how it is.

Risi was running until after dawn last year. I believe the time of the accident was between 6 and 7am, putting it at hour 15-16. Risi's run last year was a bit of a stretch and then cruise, but not so much so. In general they just had the measure of most of the cars there on race pace. This year they definitely ran a race pace run, though one partly dictated by their Wed/Thurs woes.