ALMS Rnd 3: Long Beach 13-15 April 2007

[marcel82]

this was a nice race, also surprised they could've gone the whole length without a caution if there hadn't been that mistake by that Porsche guy...

about Audi moaning... well I for one think they should. they spent a bigger budget to get a car for LMP1, but they're held back artificially by the rules, and get beaten by cheaper LMP2 cars. it's like in soccer you would ask Manchester United not to field only 9 players against a team with a much smaller budget.

You're in 2 different classes here, if you're in the bigger class you should be the faster car. You don't see them slowing down the Corvettes so they can get beaten by GT2's, do you?

I think they'd be moaning less if the rules favored the other LMP1 more, and they would lose to those, then what's happening now.

Everybody is complaining LMP1 is a small field, and near death, but Audi invests in it, brings 2 cars, and as a thanks everyone says it would not be a loss if they left because of the rules...

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by marcel82

this was a nice race, also surprised they could've gone the whole length without a caution if there hadn't been that mistake by that Porsche guy...

about Audi moaning... well I for one think they should. they spent a bigger budget to get a car for LMP1, but they're held back artificially by the rules, and get beaten by cheaper LMP2 cars. it's like in soccer you would ask Manchester United not to field only 9 players against a team with a much smaller budget.

You're in 2 different classes here, if you're in the bigger class you should be the faster car. You don't see them slowing down the Corvettes so they can get beaten by GT2's, do you?

I think they'd be moaning less if the rules favored the other LMP1 more, and they would lose to those, then what's happening now.

Everybody is complaining LMP1 is a small field, and near death, but Audi invests in it, brings 2 cars, and as a thanks everyone says it would not be a loss if they left because of the rules...

Exactly how are Audi "held back artificially by the rules"?
The curent restictor rules are exactly the same as in 2006!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Mindspin13B

I hate Speeds TV coverage. No mention of Creation or Autocon, or why Cytosport wasnt there. They had the cameras on the Audi and Acuras 80% of the race.

and WHO are the BIG ALMS Sponsors?? Coverage is about paying for the TV Coverage and sponsorship.

I bet if Dyson purchase TV adds for his Dyson Vaccum cleaners, the Dyson cars would get more air time too. Even though the Dyson Vaccum cleaner name is not on his cars. His OTHER companies, commercial air con units are.

Milk Muscle?? what the heck is that?? If these teams want TV coverage, time to pony up and BUY the add time on SPeed TV.


*Some sponsers you never see the product in main stream stores or normal marketing.

[Mindspin13B]

Yea, its not our fault Audi built a long wheelbase, high speed turn car.

And yes, the Coverage did suck. As much as I liked seeing AGR and Penske go against Audi. There were other cars in the race and Id like to see some action from them. The only time you saw a GT2 car was AFTER it made a pass for the lead or AFTER it bumped an Audi or AFTER it hit a wall. They never concentrated much on Tafel, Risi and Lizard battling it out for the whole race. The Mazda went down with like 45 mins left in the race, they showed it stop on pit lane, but never said what happened, just went back and said "oh no, the audi has to go in for fuel, lets see what happens!"

[Marcel ten Caat]

The Cytosport entry was withdrawn after suffering differential problems. During the ALMS driver autograph session the car was already being put in the transporter.

[Purist]

Bob, you might see those big adverts in AutoWeek or something, but not in local newspapers.

Also, where else in the far Southwest or SoCal is ALMS going to run if street circuits and rovals are off limits? The answer is NOWHERE. Riverside and Stardust are defunct. Button Willow, Thunderhill, and Willow Springs are not considered up to snuff. Arizona Motorsports Park is a tighter club circuit than Barber. And I don't know what is up with Sandia other than last I heard it was up for sale. Considering the market though (SoCal), a series would be stupid to turn down Long Beach.

[chocmonster7]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

I bet if Dyson purchase TV adds for his Dyson Vaccum cleaners, the Dyson cars would get more air time too.

Erm, the man who invented the cleaner is nothing to do with the racing team!

[gttouring]

What is crazy is the event had so many fences blocked up with adverts- you couldn't see the track or the cars!
the Carousel at the fountain has been long my fave spot- yet you couldn' t see any cars through there, except a tiny photographer hole...
rubbish
and the ALMS had like 12 car finish the race...It looked pretty dire
good finish for the Porsche team, and wow is that Audi quite! just a whisper very cool
of course- who sounds better the Corvettes? (the lone GT1 racers) or the GT2 Panoz?
I think the Panoz has a little better sound, just a touch though.
wow the race had its moments

[Zurbert82]

Originally Posted by gttouring

What is crazy is the event had so many fences blocked up with adverts- you couldn't see the track or the cars!
the Carousel at the fountain has been long my fave spot- yet you couldn' t see any cars through there, except a tiny photographer hole...
rubbish
and the ALMS had like 12 car finish the race...It looked pretty dire
good finish for the Porsche team, and wow is that Audi quite! just a whisper very cool
of course- who sounds better the Corvettes? (the lone GT1 racers) or the GT2 Panoz?
I think the Panoz has a little better sound, just a touch though.
wow the race had its moments

Umm, 23 cars finished - see http://www.imsaracing.net/2003/lt/ltc.html The ALMS usually has a low attrition rate, probably because these cars are built for endurance. You'll only see high attrition at places like Sebring, 24H, PLM.

[sportscanyltics]

Just posted the ALMS ratings updated through results of Long Beach. Look out for more BPR-related material at Sportscar Analytics in the very near future!

http://sportscaranalytics.wordpress.com/

[chewymonster]

It is obvious that the P2 rules were made for privateer engines, the Horag Lista team was 3 seconds slower than the factory P2s at Sebring. But it won in LMS.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

It is obvious that the P2 rules were made for privateer engines, the Horag Lista team was 3 seconds slower than the factory P2s at Sebring. But it won in LMS.

Though in fairness, on outright (qualifying) pace it was some 2 seconds off the pole at Monza (if we consider the Quifel ASM time is valid irrespective of ride height issues), that car being a Lola-AER of course. If we consider the Zytek's pace as the legal pole time, it is still about 1.8 seconds off the pace.

However, the Horag car was, in Sebring qualifying, some 7.6 seconds off class pole and, ignoring the somewhat spurious pace of the #6 car there, 5 seconds off the worst factory car (Fernandez Acura). Given that pole time in class at Sebring was only 7 seconds or so greater than that at Monza, you're certainly right in pointing out that the pace is significantly faster in the ALMS.

[chewymonster]

Or in other words the factory P2s are much quicker than the privateer (you have to go to Europe for those) P2s. I think the same would be likely in P1. This is why you can't call anything.

[Mindspin13B]

Factory anything is going to be faster than a privateer solely due to available money

[chewymonster]

Originally Posted by Mindspin13B

Factory anything is going to be faster than a privateer solely due to available money

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. There goes the diesel equivalency argument out of the window.

If you take a look, there are no true privateers in P2 anymore in ALMS.

It's off to Houston now, and good that there weren't any real wrecks.

[The359]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

If you take a look, there are no true privateers in P2 anymore in ALMS.

Van der Steur?

[chewymonster]

Forgot about them, but then again they haven't raced this year. Would be interesting how well they can compete.

[Mindspin13B]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. There goes the diesel equivalency argument out of the window.

If you take a look, there are no true privateers in P2 anymore in ALMS.

It's off to Houston now, and good that there weren't any real wrecks.

Yea Radical and Mazda to a point. They dont have 100% factory backing, more like some help from Mazdaspeed. But its primarily BK Motorsport with the funding.

[Purist]

As to the diesel/petrol equivalency, first, the diesel that Audi is running is FAR from anything commercial, or even what the ACO initially had in mind. The other main issue is that it doesn't matter whether a factory, petrol LMP1 MIGHT be able to match the pace of the diesels. Right now, all that can really be done is to make things reasonably even between the machinery that is actually out there. Then, we might actually see some of those factory efforts materialize, which would finally allow for a more direct comparison.

[chewymonster]

But if you slow down the diesels now. The factory P1s will come (supposedly) and have a quicker race car because of rules. That is why they should come and show that they are willing to race.

[bil588]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. There goes the diesel equivalency argument out of the window.

If you take a look, there are no true privateers in P2 anymore in ALMS.

It's off to Houston now, and good that there weren't any real wrecks.

VDS Radical?

[Zurbert82]

Originally Posted by bil588

VDS Radical?

Yep, I think they should be back for Houston after their testing wreck. Apparently the tub was damaged. As far as privateers in P2 we have van der Steur, and Dyson. And don't say Dyson aren't a privateer team because they 'have a Porsche'.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Zurbert82

Yep, I think they should be back for Houston after their testing wreck. Apparently the tub was damaged. As far as privateers in P2 we have van der Steur, and Dyson. And don't say Dyson aren't a privateer team because they 'have a Porsche'.

Their inability to get the setup dialed in like Penske, and consequent loss of tire temperature and, in turn, pace, can be taken as direct evidence of that.

[Purist]

Chewy, if the rules were adjusted to rein in the diesels, and factory, petrol LMP1s showed up that were quicker, then the rules could be adjusted back in the other direction. It's not that hard a concept.

And as I keep saying, if Porsche isn't willing to build an LMP1 under the current regs, I don't have a great deal of confidence that other manufacturers will jump in. Also, you're not going to have much of a P1 class if any manufacturers that do jump in don't provide customer cars; Audi and Peugeot certainly haven't made any intention to provide customer machinery apparent (Champion is NOT a privateer team, and has not truly been one since they started running the R8).

[dj4monie]

I think Mazda will be a playa after all. They show some pace in lap times and you KNOW they are making some power now. Just getting used to the Lola chassis and in fact becoming the de-facto Lola factory car in the series will help them. Running at Le Mans couldn't come at a better time for them, they'll be on the LMP-2 pace by the time the teams return and we'll see if Devin et-all have the pace to keep up with Penske and AGR/Highcroft.

The 2nd half of the ALMS season will be the most telling. But let's enjoy the first half and so far, its been very good at the top (LMP) bad in the middle (GT1) and excellent as usual at the tail-end.

Houston should be a good event and let's see that thread already!