[LM24] Le Mans Trap Speeds

[Adam43]

Bob: I wish I could remember typing that! It was seven months ago. I think you have taken it further than, at least I, meant. My only point was that I thought Audi probably chose the best set-up they had at the time.

Let us not get too far into the usual diesel debate in this thread. There are other threads already for that, and maybe this is supporting evidence. However lets see if we can get ssssssssss trap speeds from 1995 and 1996; he seems desperate, or at least persistent.

Another diesel debate will hinder the original purpose of the three threads.

[AU N EGL]

are ppl saying that teams DELIBERATELY keep the cars speeds down so they just fit under the ACO lap times per class? Using the GPS & Predictive lap timing software.

Noooooo Teams would NOT DO THAT. Would they???

[Hugewally]

Never...

[dxk1]

There are other threads already for that, and maybe this is supporting evidence. However lets see if we can get ssssssssss trap speeds from 1995 and 1996; he seems desperate, or at least persistent.

There's this little diddy on the official Le Mans web site:

http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans...vers_8_gb.html

DK

[Purist]

From my reading, I understand that someone (presumably in a 917) hit 235mph on the Mulsanne during the event weekend at Le Mans in 1971. I've also reda that one of the 917Ls did 246mph in testing at Le Mans that same year.

I've seen that 365km/h figure for the Dauer 962 a number of times, and it does make some sense. The old GT1s, I believe, went with a more brute force/low drag approach, whereas the official prototypes didn't necessarily have the power, but made greater downforce.

I don't think we'll see what cars are capable of unless the ACO allows a "limit" of 3:20 for qualifying. Then again, maybe in 2009 Audi and co will see fit to blow us away with their speed since they won't have to worry about their current rules cars being restricted for the following season.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Purist

From my reading, I understand that someone (presumably in a 917) hit 235mph on the Mulsanne during the event weekend at Le Mans in 1971.

I think a WM hit the 254 or 256 mph down the Mulsanne in the late 80's . I think the driver was Roger Dorchy ?

[Justin Moran]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I think a WM hit the 254 or 256 mph down the Mulsanne in the late 80's . I think the driver was Roger Dorchy ?

1989. JL Schlesser also hit the magic 405kmh in the C9, not the winning car but just to proove that the Merc could do it as a race car not just to get the record as the WR did.

[sssssssss]

what about 1994-1995-1996? are there any records of the mulsanne trap speeds in the '94-'96 era? i'm very interested in that data, but nobody has answered positively yet...

[chernaudi]

All I know is that the '96 and '97 Porsche 911 GT1's hit about 330kmh/205mph down the Mulsanne in '96-97 during the practice sessions.

[Gil Abobeleira]

Originally Posted by C9/89

1989. JL Schlesser also hit the magic 405kmh in the C9, not the winning car but just to proove that the Merc could do it as a race car not just to get the record as the WR did.

1988

And the C9, AFAIK, only reached 401 km/h during qualifying, because during the race, they weren't the fastest cars on the Hunaudières (to avoid the tires problems they faced one year before).

[Splendid Cat]

Originally Posted by Gil Abobeleira

1988

And the C9, AFAIK, only reached 401 km/h during qualifying, because during the race, they weren't the fastest cars on the Hunaudières (to avoid the tires problems they faced one year before).

Yep. 89 J-LS hit 250mph in qualifying. Jags quickest down the chute in the race, specifically Nielsen / Wallace / Cobb @ 389kph. About 244mph.

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I think a WM hit the 254 or 256 mph down the Mulsanne in the late 80's . I think the driver was Roger Dorchy ?

Roger Dorchy reached 405 km/h at 3AM in 1998 on a WM P88.
Schlesser hit 400 in 1989

[Splendid Cat]

Originally Posted by sssssssss

what about 1994-1995-1996? are there any records of the mulsanne trap speeds in the '94-'96 era? i'm very interested in that data, but nobody has answered positively yet...

94 speed traps - qualifying, race

Dauer 35 328, 319
Dauer 36 322, 315
Courage 2 319, 311
Courage 3 322, 315
Toyota 1 313, 306
Toyota 4 303, 306
Kremer 5 313, 315
WR 22 305, 291
Nissan 75 296, 292
Nissan 76 296, 289

[dxk1]

Here's whats posted on the official Le Mans web-site

Test Race

1994 328 km/h DAUER PORSCHE 962 LM *295 km/h TOYOTA 94 CV
327 km/h DAUER PORSCHE 962 LM *313 km/h COURAGE C32 LM

1995 *281 km/h Mc LAREN F1 GTR *311 km/h COURAGE C34

1996 *302 km/h FERRARI 333 SP332 km/h COURAGE C36 *314 km/h COURAGE C36 et RILEY & SCOTT

DK

[PascaLM]

I have datas from the annual books :
1995 :
the speeds recorded during the practice weren't representative (249 km/h for the Ferrari 333 SP or 281 for the fastest Mc Laren).

for the race we have (before Indianapolis) :
Courage C34 n°13 : 311km/h
Mc Laren F1 GTR n°59 (winner) : 303
Mc Laren F1 GTR n°51 : 303
Mc Laren F1 GTR n°50 : 302
Porsche 993 turbo n°54 : 299
Porsche Kremer K8 n°4 : 299
Mc Laren F1 GTR n°49 : 297
Honda NSX n°47 : 297 (?!)
Jaguar XJ220 C n°58 : 296
Ferrari 333 SP n°1 : 295
WM LM94 n°9 : 295
Toyota Supra n°27 : 295
Mc Laren F1 GTR n°24 : 294
GT2 : Callaway Corvette n°76 : 288

1996 :
Race : restaurant des Hunaudières (the speeds taken during the practice with the radar before Indianapolis are slower)
Courage C36 n°3 : 332 km/h
McLaren F1 GTR n°39 : 330
McLaren F1 GTR n°33 : 329
Courage C36 n°4 : 328
Ferrari 333 SP n°17 : 327
Courage C36 n°5 : 327
McLaren F1 GTR n°34 : 327
Mazda n°20 : 327 (but three others measures at 304/305 according to J.-M. Teissèdre)
McLaren F1 GTR n°53 : 326
Porsche GT1 n°25 : 324
McLaren F1 GTR n°38 : 324
McLaren F1 GTR n°29 : 322
McLaren F1 GTR n°30 : 321
Ferrari F40 GTE n°44 :321
Joest Porsche n°8 : 320
Joest Porsche n°7 (winner) : 317
and
Lister Storm n°28 : 313
Riley Scott n°19 : 305
Nissan Skyline n°22/23 : 309
SARD MC8R n°46 : 294
Toyota Supra n°57 : 298

GT2 :
Chrysler Viper n°49 : 329 (around 310 is realistic)
Chrysler Viper n°50 : 313
Callaway Corvette n°74 : 303
Porsche GT2 n°71 : 302
Honda NSX n°75 : 272

[sssssssss]

Wow! Thanks very much! Great posts there!

[sssssssss]

so the 1996 were obviously faster (in terms of top speed) than 1995, 1997 and even 1998. i didn't expect such high top speeds from the mclarens... that's the short tail version of the car.

[sssssssss]

so in 1995 the highest speeds were achieved before indianapolis and not on the first (and longest) part of the mulsanne straight? actually, they seem a bit low (most of them under 300 km/h and just the highest over 310 km/h)...

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by sssssssss

so the 1996 were obviously faster (in terms of top speed) than 1995, 1997 and even 1998. i didn't expect such high top speeds from the mclarens... that's the short tail version of the car.

If the comparaison of speeds in the same session is coherent, the recordings of speeds from different years is difficult because they differ in the site of the radar, its angle with the track, weather...

[GTfour]

What a great forum this is! I keep being amazed by the enormous amount of data in all the combined heads of the sportscar fans here.
1996 was my first year at Le Mans and I've allways wondered what the actuall topspeeds were,especially from the Mac's,for they were the final reason I went to my first Le Mans. Thanks a lot PascalLM.

By the way,Jan Lammers did 403km/h thrue the kink in '88 at Hunaudieres,in the drizzle on slick tyres! This elas is unofficiall data...

[Zytek_Fan]

Aston Martin DBR9's are said to be as fast or faster than the Audi R10

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan

Aston Martin DBR9's are said to be as fast or faster than the Audi R10

Really? I find that very hard to believe...
The R10 has a far smaller frontal area and lower drag,not to mention a lot more horsepower and torque,and on top of that,they weigh in allmost 200kg's less then a GT1 Aston.

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by GTfour

Really? I find that very hard to believe...
The R10 has a far smaller frontal area and lower drag,not to mention a lot more horsepower and torque,and on top of that,they weigh in allmost 200kg's less then a GT1 Aston.

I agree with you GT4, The official Le Mans DVD shows the Aston barely getting by the Corvette on the straight, but shows both the Pescarolo and Audi flying by the Corvette fairly easily.

DK

[GT2-R]

Originally Posted by GTfour

Really? I find that very hard to believe...
The R10 has a far smaller frontal area and lower drag,not to mention a lot more horsepower and torque,and on top of that,they weigh in allmost 200kg's less then a GT1 Aston.

In the formula used for calculating the drag you can find v². Because of this factor, the drag will increase strongly when the speed increases. Therefor I think the difference in top speed is not very big. But it seems to me that the R10 should have a better top speed because of it's smaller frontal area.

[bubulle2]

In his book " Sauber Mercedes world champions", Ian Bamsey states that Kenny Acheson went 253.5 mph (=407,88 km/h) in the 1989 qualifying while Schlesser went above the 250 mark during the race.