[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[LMP1]

I quite like the RedBull Racing F1 and DTM liveries, so I wouldn't mind seeing a RedBull-Porsche LMP car.

[CTD]

Let's not forget that Porsche do have a lot of experience in building GTE machines for Le Mans. Manthey has a lot of experience in running them in Endurance races. So Porsche do not come to Le Mans blank, as Peugeot did.
Porsche do also have experience from the RS Spyder, which can eliminate some of the early design flaws which many new prototypes suffer from (like rubber pick-up in the radiators)

[deggis]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

In their October 17th issue, Autosport Magazine (pages 36-37) reports (or rather confirms) that Porsche are only going to run two cars at LM in 2014. Such a possibility is under evaluation for 2015, the year during which Porsche have targeted victory, not only in regular 6-hour WEC races but also in the LM 24h, according to Autosport.

"That, I think, is a necessity" reportedly replied Enzinger when asked if Porsche can win in 2015.

Other things:

- next test scheduled at the end of this month at Monza
- further multi-day tests at Paul Ricard and Algarve
- 2nd chassis for testing after Christmas break
- testing in 2014: mid-January @ Bahrain, multi-day test in February @ Bahrain, March @ Sebring
- Webber's first test is the first Bahrain test
- testing so far: Weissach (duh), Lausitzring, Aragon and Magny-Cours
- one of the ERS systems will be working on the exhaust (self-evident?)

Only Aragon test has slipped away without a single spy video/pic.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by deggis

Other things:
(...)
- one of the ERS systems will be working on the exhaust (self-evident?)
(...)

In that respect, Autosport are not really up-to-date. We got confirmation from the recent videos posted on the Porsche microsite that the new Porsche LMP1 is going to combine a first ERS on the front axle recovering energy from braking and (indeed) another ERS recovering energy from the exhaust gases. The videos also confirmed that the energy storage will be based on batteries. I guess the editiorial content was frozen for publication before the latest videos came out.

[deggis]

Where is the conflict? Autosport/Watkins didn't say there was only going to be one system.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by deggis

Where is the conflict? Autosport/Watkins didn't say there was only going to be one system.

I am not saying there was any conflict, just pointing out that the Autosport article was still speculating about the hybrid solution used by Porsche.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by deggis

Other things:

- next test scheduled at the end of this month at Monza

I do hope 19Bozzy92 and his/her excellent microphone is there.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Mike E

I do hope 19Bozzy92 and his/her excellent microphone is there.

I actually sent a message to him: he already had heard about the test via marshall (didn't mention specific date).

[Paul721]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Porsche's drivetrain is revealed.
http://www.porsche.com/microsite/mis...staende_en.mp4

Hello to all...new to the site but have been lurking for years..I think the motor in the video is only a 1 or 2 cylinder to test efficiency and power...cheaper to develop that to build a complete motor for development.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I think there's a lot of overestimating here because of the name. Forget the name, this is a completely new operation and it's a massive undertaking.

I wouldn't rule out a win in a 6 hour race, but I think to get a car to finish at Le Mans would be a cracking result.

I agree.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by deggis

I actually sent a message to him: he already had heard about the test via marshall (didn't mention specific date).

Good work!

[Thaw Daggerslash]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I think there's a lot of overestimating here because of the name. Forget the name, this is a completely new operation and it's a massive undertaking.

I wouldn't rule out a win in a 6 hour race, but I think to get a car to finish at Le Mans would be a cracking result.

You make valid points, but given how much earlier they've had their 2014 car out and testing before either Audi or Toyota makes me think they'll be very strong indeed. I'd bet some good money on the battle for the win at Le Mans/WEC title being contested between Audi and Porsche, with Toyota treading water once again.

Yes it is a new operation, but remember that they have based their promotion on previous success. For that reason alone, it would be a bit of a PR disaster for them if they were at Le Mans and doing anything but challenging for the win. I have no doubt in my mind that Porsche would never have green-lighted this project in the first place if they were there just to make up the numbers in their first year.

[Simmi]

Yep I expect Porsche to follow what VW did in the WRC this year and be fast out of the box.

Not saying Porsche will dominate - but looking back, VW's stated aim at the start of the year (to fight for podiums) looks comical when they smashed everyone all year.

I can't imagine Porsche's public aim and it's internal aim are the same. But that's not uncommon.

I'd be amazed if Porsche don't pick off a couple of 6-hour races this year and be right in the mix for the big one.

[Fogelhund]

With the amount of resources and people that Porsche have put behind his, anything but a competitive car has to be viewed as a disaster internally. The only portion that they might be a little behind in, could be race craft. This car is going to be right there on pace though, and should challenge for some wins.

[Spyderman]

I'm not as confident as some here.
Porsche has put together a new team, comprised mainly of people that are new to Porsche and the Porsche way of doing things. Porsche itself has suffered tremendous transformation in the last 2 years. As an example, their current CEO worked for 30 years at Audi. To me he is more a Audi man than a Porsche guy (this is a personal biased of course).

What I'm trying to say is that this is a new team with no known experience racing under Porsche colors. What came before is essentially null and void......I my humble opinion.

I'm actually wrestling with the option between attending Le Mans 2014 or 2015. As you can imagine, the cost of attending Le Mans coming from deep in Africa is substantial. I have to decide whether I want to witness the historic return of Porsche or whether I prefer to wait a year and see them fighting for victory.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

With the amount of resources and people that Porsche have put behind his, anything but a competitive car has to be viewed as a disaster internally. The only portion that they might be a little behind in, could be race craft. This car is going to be right there on pace though, and should challenge for some wins.

This is what I meant. You say the "only portion" - well, actually, for me the race craft is one of the most important things. How many times have teams come with cars to Le Mans that are fast enough - and even reliable enough - to win overall, only to be outwitted by opponents?

It doesn't matter who you are, where you're from, or how much money you chuck at it - a win at Le Mans comes from the organic hard work and experience you get from entering the race every bit as much as it comes from money and figures on paper.

Winning Le Mans at your first attempt is outrageous. And that's what it would be - it's a new facility, a bunch of people who haven't worked together before, racing with a lot of new and unproven technology. The only thing this car shares with the 911 GT1 98 is a name.

I'm more than happy to be proved wrong - I'd love Porsche to win at Le Mans in 2014. History is very much against them in terms of being favourites for that win and I'd class them as third favourites for that win, and I won't change my mind on that until sunrise on the Sunday of the race if they're still in the hunt for it.

[Mike E]

The big mystery in all of this is who will get the most out of the new regs.

[FstrthnU]

And after 24 Hours, Rebellion Racing wins Le Mans!

[TF110]

Porsche can test and test, but thats not racing experience. Audi and Toyota are already racing, developing things for 2014 is easier for them because the cars are not too much of a fundamental difference. There are big changes, but the race operations and strategists and recent experience are favored to these two. Porsche may have a test program and car running, but thats the only advantage so far.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by TF110

Porsche can test and test, but thats not racing experience. Audi and Toyota are already racing, developing things for 2014 is easier for them because the cars are not too much of a fundamental difference. There are big changes, but the race operations and strategists and recent experience are favored to these two. Porsche may have a test program and car running, but thats the only advantage so far.

I'll just repost this:

Originally Posted by CTD

Let's not forget that Porsche do have a lot of experience in building GTE machines for Le Mans. Manthey has a lot of experience in running them in Endurance races. So Porsche do not come to Le Mans blank, as Toyota and Peugeot did.
Porsche do also have experience from the RS Spyder, which can eliminate some of the early design flaws which many new prototypes suffer from (like rubber pick-up in the radiators)

[TF110]

Running GTE is not the same as lmp. Toyota came back in with Oreca as part of their team and they had their problems. You don't just jump in any class and not encounter hiccups. Porsche even admitted they were on the backfoot. There's no one saying they can't challenge, but it's an uphill battle in your first year in half a decade.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by TF110

Running GTE is not the same as lmp. Toyota came back in with Oreca as part of their team and they had their problems. You don't just jump in any class and not encounter hiccups. Porsche even admitted they were on the backfoot. There's no one saying they can't challenge, but it's an uphill battle in your first year in half a decade.

Everybody encounters "hiccups", just look at Audi at Le Mans this year.
Of course Porsche will be worse off than Audi and Toyota next year, but you make it sound as they don't stand a chance, which they might actually do!

[TF110]

I never said that. You assume thats what I meant? Im saying keep expectations in check, even with their head start on running the car.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by TF110

Porsche can test and test, but thats not racing experience. Audi and Toyota are already racing, developing things for 2014 is easier for them because the cars are not too much of a fundamental difference. There are big changes, but the race operations and strategists and recent experience are favored to these two. Porsche may have a test program and car running, but thats the only advantage so far.

We do not often agree, but I must say that I agree with this comment.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by TF110

I never said that. You assume thats what I meant? Im saying keep expectations in check, even with their head start on running the car.

I don't say you said it, I'm saying you make it sound like they won't stand a chance. You downplay Porsche too much. Porsche has a lot of experience to pull from, so believing that they can achieve good results (ei. challenging Toyota and Audi) is not that unrealistic.